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Old 10-09-2006, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.

Jets fan....Irony?
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Ben is a game manager, you can find those in the later rounds. Hes nothing special. He got all the hype his first couple years because he didnt have to do anything. I always knew he was still the 3rd best of those 3. Hes a distant 3rd, and I might even probly put him behind Schaub once he gets a chance to play somewhere.

Eli is better than Rivers at this point but I like both of them a lot.
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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It's amazing what one game will do for everyone's opinion. You are all likely the same people that said the Chargers didn't have a shot at the playoffs because they had Rivers at QB. I still take Big Ben quite honestly. He's struggling yes, but he has the kind of moxy that you want in a QB.
One game? We are about to go into week 6.
How many games do you think most people have seen Philip Rivers play? We have about 0 Chargers fans on here and they aren't on national TV that often.
I have season tickets to the Chargers

After seeing Rivers play, I can honestly say that I think they made the right decision in not trading Rivers away. He's every bit as accurate as Brees was, except he doesn't have a pea shooter for an arm.

Saying he's any better than the other two is just silly, though. Right now,, he's in the same, game-managing role that Roethlisbeergut has been in, and it's working fantastically. I hear Chargers fans complaining about "Marty Ball" all the time, and it really pisses me off. It works. You have the best running back in the game, and a backup who would start for a lot of teams in the NFL. You're breaking in a brand new quarterback. What is there to complain about?
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
Im not gonna beat a dead horse, but that is so far from the truth. He's been great this year, I don't see any of the "knocks" of his game at all this year. But I regress.
:shock: Am I the only one that watched the Seattle game where Eli quickly threw an interception right after his team got a turnover? And he did it again a drive or two later! He just padded his stats while the seahawks were celebrating on the sideline.

And what's with the first three quarters he played against Philly? If he decided to play better then he wouldn't have needed a miracle Eagles choke to win it

Eli's had one game where he's played a full good 4 quarters. I've yet to see why he's a top ten QB at this point.
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
Im not gonna beat a dead horse, but that is so far from the truth. He's been great this year, I don't see any of the "knocks" of his game at all this year. But I regress.
:shock: Am I the only one that watched the Seattle game where Eli quickly threw an interception right after his team got a turnover? And he did it again a drive or two later! He just padded his stats while the seahawks were celebrating on the sideline.

And what's with the first three quarters he played against Philly? If he decided to play better then he wouldn't have needed a miracle Eagles choke to win it

Eli's had one game where he's played a full good 4 quarters. I've yet to see why he's a top ten QB at this point.
Yes, Seattle was the one game where at the start he made 2 poor decisions in a row. But look after the first 2 possessions. Even after that he played great. Its not his fault his guys fumbled and a pick occured off the hands of his own receiver. And say what you want about "padding stats". The Seahawks tried their heart out half way through the 4th to stop him because he was legitimately bringing us back, and still couldn't stop him.

And Philly? He was on the entire game. The only reason why his numbers dropped were because he was getting sacked every play in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. That was the olines fault. When he had protection, he carved up the Eagles every chance he got. As a guy who studies each Giant game like no tomorrow, trust me on this, Im not making it up.
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
Im not gonna beat a dead horse, but that is so far from the truth. He's been great this year, I don't see any of the "knocks" of his game at all this year. But I regress.
:shock: Am I the only one that watched the Seattle game where Eli quickly threw an interception right after his team got a turnover? And he did it again a drive or two later! He just padded his stats while the seahawks were celebrating on the sideline.

And what's with the first three quarters he played against Philly? If he decided to play better then he wouldn't have needed a miracle Eagles choke to win it

Eli's had one game where he's played a full good 4 quarters. I've yet to see why he's a top ten QB at this point.
I mentioned the INTs he threw in Seattle. That was on his shoulders.

The Philly game wasn't his fault. I was absolutly astounded by his pocket presence despite being sacked 8 times that game. Not to mention all the times he got hit. He stood in the pocket that philly game and threw lasers all over the field right before he got hit. Last game vs. the skins he threw two beautiful downfield completions and ended up on his back twice.

Philip Rivers has a much better supporting cast, which was already mentioned (Similar to big ben his rookie year). Eli has accumulated much of his stats this season playing catch-up, due to a poor defense. I personally didn't think this poll would be so close. Some people are jumping all over Rivers just like they jumped all over Big Ben.
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I like Rivers. Not to take anything away from Manning or Roethlisberger, but I liked Rivers the best coming out of college. I had him as the #1 QB prospect that year and he has been outstanding so far this season.
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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He has been outstanding, despite everyone saying that he was going to hold the Chargers back. :roll:
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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I like Rivers. Not to take anything away from Manning or Roethlisberger, but I liked Rivers the best coming out of college. I had him as the #1 QB prospect that year and he has been outstanding so far this season.
after his bowl game i was hoping he'd fall to the donks. after the senior bowl, i was a bit upset because i knew he wouldn't.

i think it's too early to really judge anything here, but i'm happy that rivers is looking as good as i thought he would (even if it's for the chargers).
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
Im not gonna beat a dead horse, but that is so far from the truth. He's been great this year, I don't see any of the "knocks" of his game at all this year. But I regress.
:shock: Am I the only one that watched the Seattle game where Eli quickly threw an interception right after his team got a turnover? And he did it again a drive or two later! He just padded his stats while the seahawks were celebrating on the sideline.

And what's with the first three quarters he played against Philly? If he decided to play better then he wouldn't have needed a miracle Eagles choke to win it

Eli's had one game where he's played a full good 4 quarters. I've yet to see why he's a top ten QB at this point.
Yes, Seattle was the one game where at the start he made 2 poor decisions in a row. But look after the first 2 possessions. Even after that he played great. Its not his fault his guys fumbled and a pick occured off the hands of his own receiver. And say what you want about "padding stats". The Seahawks tried their heart out half way through the 4th to stop him because he was legitimately bringing us back, and still couldn't stop him.

And Philly? He was on the entire game. The only reason why his numbers dropped were because he was getting sacked every play in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. That was the olines fault. When he had protection, he carved up the Eagles every chance he got. As a guy who studies each Giant game like no tomorrow, trust me on this, Im not making it up.
After those two bad plays by him the game was already 21-0. The game was already starting to become a rout in the first quarter. I didn't even count the third one because it was practically his only good throw in the 1st half.

And I've seen that eagles game. Eli held on to the ball for waaay to long throughout the majority of that game.

I'm not by any means calling him a bad quarterback. But he's been inconsistent, and the Giants record has reflected that thus far.
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
Im not gonna beat a dead horse, but that is so far from the truth. He's been great this year, I don't see any of the "knocks" of his game at all this year. But I regress.
:shock: Am I the only one that watched the Seattle game where Eli quickly threw an interception right after his team got a turnover? And he did it again a drive or two later! He just padded his stats while the seahawks were celebrating on the sideline.

And what's with the first three quarters he played against Philly? If he decided to play better then he wouldn't have needed a miracle Eagles choke to win it

Eli's had one game where he's played a full good 4 quarters. I've yet to see why he's a top ten QB at this point.
Yes, Seattle was the one game where at the start he made 2 poor decisions in a row. But look after the first 2 possessions. Even after that he played great. Its not his fault his guys fumbled and a pick occured off the hands of his own receiver. And say what you want about "padding stats". The Seahawks tried their heart out half way through the 4th to stop him because he was legitimately bringing us back, and still couldn't stop him.

And Philly? He was on the entire game. The only reason why his numbers dropped were because he was getting sacked every play in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. That was the olines fault. When he had protection, he carved up the Eagles every chance he got. As a guy who studies each Giant game like no tomorrow, trust me on this, Im not making it up.
After those two bad plays by him the game was already 21-0. The game was already starting to become a rout in the first quarter. I didn't even count the third one because it was practically his only good throw in the 1st half.

And I've seen that eagles game. Eli held on to the ball for waaay to long throughout the majority of that game.

I'm not by any means calling him a bad quarterback. But he's been inconsistent, and the Giants record has reflected that thus far.
Wow.

Eli did NOT hold onto the ball too long in Philly. The O-line got beat time after time before Eli made his drop. If anything, he did a good job at avoiding 10+ sacks for crying out loud.

And he has actually been fairly consistent in his first 4 games, often ending with similar stats when it comes to completion percentage and QB rating. And the main reason for the .500 start is mainly attributed to the schedule (14-5 combined record of oppenents already played).
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Who is the greatest QB of all time? The stats would lead you to believe it would be Dan Marino, however most people would say someone like Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas was the best.

The measure of a QB's greatness is Superbowl Rings. How many do Eli and Rivers have? Ben is the best until one of those guys step up and win it for themselves, and i don't care that Ben had a great team around him, he still has more superbowl rings than the other two combined.
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:52 PM    (permalink
 
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I would say Rivers right now but it is pretty close between him and Eli
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Who is the greatest QB of all time? The stats would lead you to believe it would be Dan Marino, however most people would say someone like Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas was the best.

The measure of a QB's greatness is Superbowl Rings. How many do Eli and Rivers have? Ben is the best until one of those guys step up and win it for themselves, and i don't care that Ben had a great team around him, he still has more superbowl rings than the other two combined.
Lame argument unless he finishes off his career with 5 rings and the Eli/Rivers combo has 2.

Trent Dilfer has a ring. Is he better than Peyton Manning? Donovan McNabb? Carson Palmer? Matt Hasselbeck?

Not all of the top QBs can get a ring.
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Old 10-09-2006, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Who is the greatest QB of all time? The stats would lead you to believe it would be Dan Marino, however most people would say someone like Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas was the best.

The measure of a QB's greatness is Superbowl Rings. How many do Eli and Rivers have? Ben is the best until one of those guys step up and win it for themselves, and i don't care that Ben had a great team around him, he still has more superbowl rings than the other two combined.
Lame argument unless he finishes off his career with 5 rings and the Eli/Rivers combo has 2.

Trent Dilfer has a ring. Is he better than Peyton Manning? Donovan McNabb? Carson Palmer? Matt Hasselbeck?

Not all of the top QBs can get a ring.
That is by far the worst argument in the history of sports. Ben Roethlisberger didn't win jack, let alone the Super Bowl, which they were lucky to win based on his play. Super Bowls do not mean anything for a QB. Football is the ultimate team sport, statistics have shown you need a running game and a great defense to win, not a QB.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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The fact that it's even debatable between Rivers and Eli ALREADY, after 4 GAMES as a starter, means that Rivers is winning.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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The fact that it's even debatable between Rivers and Eli ALREADY, after 4 GAMES as a starter, means that Rivers is winning.
Most will tell you that this debate is far too premature. We're all jumping on the bandwagon like we did with Roethlisberger last year. Rivers is gonna be a great qb, but to even have this debate right now is absurd. I wouldn't even stack him up with Roethlisberger yet. Even though I predict he'll be better than Ben, to compare him right now to even Ben is absurd. Its waaaay too early.
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:12 PM    (permalink
 
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I'll take the ring, after all that is what this game is about.

I don't give a damn about stats, just "W"s. Also, are you talking about just the first 5 weeks of the season or their whole careers? Because to base something of 5 games is a bunch of bull.

Give Ben a break as well, i bet there aren't many people who can go through what he did and even be on the field right now.
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Look at the difference in offenses as well. The giants are are mainly an offense team. The Chargers compare more closely. Both have similar offensive styles and Defensive styles. Ben didn't get Groomed as both of those guys did by once pro-bowl QB's either, he got dropped right into the game, and he did well. I don't care if he was only a game manager.. he won what his first 15+ games his rookie Season? Youngest kid to ever be in a superbowl?

His play this season has a lot of reasoning. The Wideouts aren't making the plays they normally do. Hines has dropped alot of balls and hasn't gotten open. None of the other guys are really making an impact. Willie Parker isn't a Power Rusher. The Oline is playing horrid.

Now i'm not trying to give Ben's play excuses, it has been bad. He has had alot happen to him this off-season and i'm sure his confidence is struck.

But Christ. He led the Steelers to 2 Afc Championships and a Superbowl in his first two Years.


If you want to make a fair Comparison... Lets compare each guys first 5 games:


Ben went: 84 of 117 (72%), 7 touchdowns, 2 INTS, Avg QB Rating: 107

Eli Went : 55 of 149 (40%), 3 Touchdowns, 7 INTS, Avg QB Rating: 45

Phil went(4 games): 70 of 105 (67%), 5 touchdowns, 2 INTs, AVG Qb Rating: 99.5


Right now I think Rivers has the potential to break out and be the best of the group, but just because Ben is in a funk this season, doesn't mean he's not just as good as Eli, or Phillip.
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Look at the difference in offenses as well. The giants are are mainly an offense team. The Chargers compare more closely. Both have similar offensive styles and Defensive styles. Ben didn't get Groomed as both of those guys did by once pro-bowl QB's either, he got dropped right into the game, and he did well. I don't care if he was only a game manager.. he won what his first 15+ games his rookie Season? Youngest kid to ever be in a superbowl?

His play this season has a lot of reasoning. The Wideouts aren't making the plays they normally do. Hines has dropped alot of balls and hasn't gotten open. None of the other guys are really making an impact. Willie Parker isn't a Power Rusher. The Oline is playing horrid.

Now i'm not trying to give Ben's play excuses, it has been bad. He has had alot happen to him this off-season and i'm sure his confidence is struck.

But Christ. He led the Steelers to 2 Afc Championships and a Superbowl in his first two Years.


If you want to make a fair Comparison... Lets compare each guys first 5 games:


Ben went: 84 of 117 (72%), 7 touchdowns, 2 INTS, Avg QB Rating: 107

Eli Went : 55 of 149 (40%), 3 Touchdowns, 7 INTS, Avg QB Rating: 45

Phil went(4 games): 70 of 105 (67%), 5 touchdowns, 2 INTs, AVG Qb Rating: 99.5


Right now I think Rivers has the potential to break out and be the best of the group, but just because Ben is in a *********** this season, doesn't mean he's not just as good as Eli, or Phillip.
Yes, finally, someone came out and defended Roethlisberger. Ben is being thrashed as a horrible qb right now which is not true. He's still a good qb. But I warn you, don't compare first games, those teams are so different that that means nothing. Eli's first start, he had no oline whatsoever, no WRs at that time, and he played the part of the season where the team gave up. Ben had that all world team around him, and Rivers has great talent around him for his 5 first starts. So thats deceiving.

I think when evaluating these 3 guys, ultimately its gonna come down to Eli and Rivers. Im taking Eli because he's proven his clutchness, he has the best pocket presence, and he's the most cerebral of the 3. Rivers accuracy is being a little exxaggerated, he tends to float balls a little too much, and his side arm delivery could get him in trouble. Once teams get some film of this guy, they'll give him a hard time. He's also not as good as Eli or Ben in the pocket, in terms of buying time.

Everyone is so quick to either rip on Eli or Ben, because they have so many haters, that once they see an oppurtunity to do that, like here with Rivers, they jump on it and ride it to the ground. Rivers is good, will be great, but everyone is jumping on the bandwagon way too prematurely.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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rivers and Eli are a toss up for me, i'd rather not have big ben on my team now. dosent he have like 9 INts and no Td's?
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
Look at the difference in offenses as well. The giants are are mainly an offense team. The Chargers compare more closely. Both have similar offensive styles and Defensive styles. Ben didn't get Groomed as both of those guys did by once pro-bowl QB's either, he got dropped right into the game, and he did well. I don't care if he was only a game manager.. he won what his first 15+ games his rookie Season? Youngest kid to ever be in a superbowl?

His play this season has a lot of reasoning. The Wideouts aren't making the plays they normally do. Hines has dropped alot of balls and hasn't gotten open. None of the other guys are really making an impact. Willie Parker isn't a Power Rusher. The Oline is playing horrid.

Now i'm not trying to give Ben's play excuses, it has been bad. He has had alot happen to him this off-season and i'm sure his confidence is struck.

But Christ. He led the Steelers to 2 Afc Championships and a Superbowl in his first two Years.


If you want to make a fair Comparison... Lets compare each guys first 5 games:


Ben went: 84 of 117 (72%), 7 touchdowns, 2 INTS, Avg QB Rating: 107

Eli Went : 55 of 149 (40%), 3 Touchdowns, 7 INTS, Avg QB Rating: 45

Phil went(4 games): 70 of 105 (67%), 5 touchdowns, 2 INTs, AVG Qb Rating: 99.5


Right now I think Rivers has the potential to break out and be the best of the group, but just because Ben is in a *********** this season, doesn't mean he's not just as good as Eli, or Phillip.

Ben never led the Steelers at all.

The fact that he is the only QB to play that badly and win a SB speaks volumes.

He hasn't proven to be anything more than a game manager.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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The Steelers did not win the Super Bowl because of Ben. Ben won the Super Bowl because of the Steelers.

Keep in mind that the best game out of a Steelers QB this season has come from the likes of Charlie Batch.

I want to avoid trashing Ben, but I can't let anyone get away with saying he is the best QB in this class.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
The Steelers did not win the Super Bowl because of Ben. Ben won the Super Bowl because of the Steelers.

Keep in mind that the best game out of a Steelers QB this season has come from the likes of Charlie Batch.

I want to avoid trashing Ben, but I can't let anyone get away with saying he is the best QB in this class.
The first season Big Ben played he helped to get his team to the playoffs and finish with a 15-1 record. He didn't play well in the post season.

The second season when he was hurt, the steelers lost games when he was not starting. He played pretty good in the playoffs last year, with the exception of the superbowl. What did the Stealers finish last year 11-5? If he missed another game, they probably would not have made the playoffs without him. I don't really understand how you can belittle the importance he was to his team last year and say that he won a ring just because of his supporting players around him. They would not have even gotten into the playoffs last year without him, based on how the steelers played when he was absent.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Rivers is looking like the real deal. And Big ben has proven that he can win in the playoffs. However Eli is my favorite as he's proven he can be clutch and a stat machine. Also Losman has shown he can make big plays.
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