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Old 10-10-2006, 04:44 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Big Ben is little more than a game manager, he can't take a team on his back and throw his way to a victory if the run game isn't clicking or the defense isn't playing well. They run it down people's throats and play great defense in Pitt, Ben is just relied on for a few passes and he really only needs to avoid mistakes. I'll take Rivers or Eli over Roethlisberger any day of the week, Ben gets too much hype from ESPN, and the other two are better IMO. Between the two it's close but I like Rivers at this point, just personal preference I really think it's difficult to say one is better. We'll all get the answer down the road to who is the best of the three, I just don't think it's going to be Roethlisberger.
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
The Steelers did not win the Super Bowl because of Ben. Ben won the Super Bowl because of the Steelers.

Keep in mind that the best game out of a Steelers QB this season has come from the likes of Charlie Batch.

I want to avoid trashing Ben, but I can't let anyone get away with saying he is the best QB in this class.

but listen, however you look at it....


ben led them to 2 afc championships and a super bowl win, if he were as terrible as he was supposed to be that would not of been a problem...he faced manning in the playoffs and a denver team....so what you want, but a terrible qb doesnt come out a winner in those games i dont care how good the D or surrounding players were....that steelers D wasnt the greatest of all time, just solid, they didnt ask ben to do much, but he didnt make mistakes either.....


so like said, its hard to say either of the two are better until they go further.....rivers talk is pre mature, like bbd said he has played one good game, if he plays a bad one everyone will jump right off, eli has haters but shows he wins games in the clutch or when it counts, thats really all that matters.....i think he has to make an nfc champ game to make noise in this argument, eli has MORE then enough talent, and more talent then big ben had that year....he needs to go far in the playoffs, and take weight on his shoulder, peyton takes a team not as strong deep every year, eli has more talent to do that, he needs to take charge...


Ben hasnt showed he can lead a sub par team yet, so the verdicts still out, but right now it HAS to be....


1. Ben
2. Eli
3. Rivers


Sorry but i cannot put Ben last due to 4 bad games after all he's went through, and i cannot put rivers first due to one solid game....and i will not put eli up top over ben because ben when on his game doesnt make mistakes that cost his team, you guys might not think its important, but drew bledsoe's my teams qb so i know about that....


ive seen eli win so many games late in the game for a qb his age its crazy, you want you qb to have that, and know he has it early on, but he has to at least make an nfl champ game in the next 2 years with all that talent he has or he cannot go over ben...i dotn care what your name is, its tough to go to two afc champ games as a rookie and 2nd year qb, dont care who your qb is....


there have been a few who could pull it off with a solid team, but its tough regardless due to being so young and just learning the position...



i
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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We all know that Big Ben has proven able to win big game with his steelers, but unlike Eli he has yet to show that he can win a game on his own.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Ben hasn't "led" the Steelers in any regards. There is a standing mis-conception that "W-L" is directly related to a Quarterback, the postion lends itself to receiving more credit when things are going a-okay. The fact is; Roethlisberger hasn't "won" nearly as many games as other Quarterbacks. This season, the diapers came off, Ken Wisenhunt said that they will put the game in Ben's hands and it's failed miserably. The Steelers were better off with Charlie Batch.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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I really really like Rivers.

I thought he would be the best QB out of those 3 when he got drafted and I still believe that right now.

He has that intangible that you can't point out but he has it.

Not to mention he's got all the physical tools.

He's going to be a big time QB for a while IMO.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL
I really really like Rivers.

I thought he would be the best QB out of those 3 when he got drafted and I still believe that right now.

He has that intangible that you can't point out but he has it.

Not to mention he's got all the physical tools.

He's going to be a big time QB for a while IMO.
When you say "that intangible".....what do you mean? Do you mean leading a team to vicotry late in the game?
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL
I really really like Rivers.

I thought he would be the best QB out of those 3 when he got drafted and I still believe that right now.

He has that intangible that you can't point out but he has it.

Not to mention he's got all the physical tools.

He's going to be a big time QB for a while IMO.
When you say "that intangible".....what do you mean? Do you mean leading a team to vicotry late in the game?
He has an insanely fast release.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Rivers reminds so much of Bernie Kosar. He's even got the funky throwing motion to boot
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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I got to say Rivers.

Big Ben is a great game manager and a guy who will do it all for his team to win. That being said, he isn't in Rivers or Eli league as a pure QB standpoint right now. It's like comparing Willie Parker to Tiki Barber. Yea, Parker has the SB ring and is very good but there is still no comparsion.

bigbluedefense, you like to point out how you want to see more of Rivers before rushing to call him the greatest. While, I agree with you in this regard - Rivers does need to substain this for a full season. But the same can and should be said about Eli. It wasn't to long ago that Eli was throwing 4 picks in the playoffs and making boneheaded decisions. Are you fully confident he has put all of those mistakes behind him?

As for comparing their O's. Eli plays in a much wilder open O that allows him to put up bigger numbers. I expect PR's #'s to go up significantly as better teams key on LT. Both guys have pretty bad OL's and while Gates and LT are upgrades over Barber and Shockey, Burress is a huge asset for a QB. Throw Toomer, and those two alone compensate for two or three Manning mistakes a game.
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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wow everyone is jumping on the rivers bandwagon now...i loved him at nc state i think he's the best. chargers are my second favorite team and i was so happy when they got him.

he can make all the throws, and he showed great poise against a defense that he had never seen before, a defense that gives you a lot of looks, and a defense that needed a win.
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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wow everyone is jumping on the rivers bandwagon now...i loved him at nc state i think he's the best. chargers are my second favorite team and i was so happy when they got him.

he can make all the throws, and he showed great poise against a defense that he had never seen before, a defense that gives you a lot of looks, and a defense that needed a win.

Dick LeBeau + Two weeks of preperation and game film and they still couldn't rattle him.
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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wow everyone is jumping on the rivers bandwagon now...i loved him at nc state i think he's the best. chargers are my second favorite team and i was so happy when they got him.

he can make all the throws, and he showed great poise against a defense that he had never seen before, a defense that gives you a lot of looks, and a defense that needed a win.

Dick LeBeau + Two weeks of preperation and game film and they still couldn't rattle him.
it was awesome watching him finally get an oppurtunity to make some plays.
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand how someone can call Ben a game managed and system qb and praise Rivers at the same time. Rivers is in the exact same situation Ben was for the last two years, you can't judge them differently. Ben is having a bad year and he isn't as good as many hyped him up to be yet, but he isn't getting enough credit for what he did for the Steelers last year. Ben won them 2 critical playoff games when their run game wasn't hot. He was doing more than managing the game against Indie and Denver. He played terrible in the Superbowl, but the Steelers would never have made the playoffs without Ben. If anything this year is demonstrating just how important Ben was to Steelers last year. I don't know why he is playing so poorly, but it isn't because he is really being asked to do anything more than he did last year.
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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i think Rivers will turn out to be the best. i'm not exactly sure why but it's just a gut feeling.

eli will be good but not great. he'll never reach the level of Peyton.

Big Ben will be the worst QB except for the win column. i'm not saying he'll be bad but he'll never be an allstar QB or a stat machine.
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:40 PM    (permalink
 
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i think Rivers will turn out to be the best. i'm not exactly sure why but it's just a gut feeling.

eli will be good but not great. he'll never reach the level of Peyton.

Big Ben will be the worst QB except for the win column. i'm not saying he'll be bad but he'll never be an allstar QB or a stat machine.
I'll take "W"s and rings any-day over stats.

Who would you rather have Terry Bradshaw or Dan Marino.


Also, to all those who say Ben is nothing more than a game manager, so Eli or Phil is better because they actually win games for their teams...SHUT UP! So what? big deal he only game manager, what is his teams record when he is playing and when he is not? EXACTLY!

How many rings do Rivers and Manning have?...for that case how many rings does Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Carson Palmer have...uhhh 0, but don't forget their stats are amazing, thats all that really matters right? :roll: The game is about WINNING not stats.
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jackalope
i think Rivers will turn out to be the best. i'm not exactly sure why but it's just a gut feeling.

eli will be good but not great. he'll never reach the level of Peyton.

Big Ben will be the worst QB except for the win column. i'm not saying he'll be bad but he'll never be an allstar QB or a stat machine.
I'll take "W"s and rings any-day over stats.

Who would you rather have Terry Bradshaw or Dan Marino.


Also, to all those who say Ben is nothing more than a game manager, so Eli or Phil is better because they actually win games for their teams...SHUT UP! So what? big deal he only game manager, what is his teams record when he is playing and when he is not? EXACTLY!

How many rings do Rivers and Manning have?...for that case how many rings does Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Carson Palmer have...uhhh 0, but don't forget their stats are amazing, thats all that really matters right? :roll: The game is about WINNING not stats.

The game is about a TEAM not one player.
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Ben. Sure its me being a homer but look at the way he led us through the playoffs last season. He did alot more than just "manage" games in the playoffs. He single handedly took us to the superbowl. I'll take a superbowl win over a stat record any day.
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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Roethlisberger despite his stinky streak
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Ding, Ding, Ding...


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Old 10-10-2006, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand how someone can call Ben a game managed and system qb and praise Rivers at the same time. Rivers is in the exact same situation Ben was for the last two years, you can't judge them differently. Ben is having a bad year and he isn't as good as many hyped him up to be yet, but he isn't getting enough credit for what he did for the Steelers last year. Ben won them 2 critical playoff games when their run game wasn't hot. He was doing more than managing the game against Indie and Denver. He played terrible in the Superbowl, but the Steelers would never have made the playoffs without Ben. If anything this year is demonstrating just how important Ben was to Steelers last year. I don't know why he is playing so poorly, but it isn't because he is really being asked to do anything more than he did last year.

Were you watching the same Sunday Night game I was?! Rivers threw the ball 40-time, the Steelers shut down LT and Turner, and he faced a Dick LeBeau defense that had two weeks to prepare and he still excelled. He is much more than Ben has ever been.

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I'll take Ben. Sure its me being a homer but look at the way he led us through the playoffs last season. He did alot more than just "manage" games in the playoffs. He single handedly took us to the superbowl. I'll take a superbowl win over a stat record any day.
"single handedly" doesn't apply in the NFL, first of all. Secondly he had the worst performance of any Super Bowl winning team ever, he didn't "win" the game.
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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QB's get too much love for when they win and too much bitchin for when they lose.

Ding, Ding, Ding...


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Old 10-10-2006, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Ben. Sure its me being a homer but look at the way he led us through the playoffs last season. He did alot more than just "manage" games in the playoffs. He single handedly took us to the superbowl. I'll take a superbowl win over a stat record any day.
Two things.

1-Be honest with yourself. Do you really believe that Ben single handeldly took you to the Super Bowl?

2-Would you take Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson...etc over Dan Marino because of a ring?
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
I'll take Ben. Sure its me being a homer but look at the way he led us through the playoffs last season. He did alot more than just "manage" games in the playoffs. He single handedly took us to the superbowl. I'll take a superbowl win over a stat record any day.
Two things.

1-Be honest with yourself. Do you really believe that Ben single handeldly took you to the Super Bowl?

2-Would you take Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson...etc over Dan Marino because of a ring?

In all fairness, the Super Bowl winning Kurt Warner was a hell of a player, League MVP, in a whole different league from Dilfer and Johnson.
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Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
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do i tell you when to flip the burger?
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:06 PM    (permalink
Windy
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Predicted Stats based on the 7r-2 Formula founded by Students at Cooper Union:


PhillipRivers-2 Super Bowl Victories Hall of Famer 4-Time All Star 2-Time MVP

EliManning-1 Super Bowl Victory 4-Time All Star One MVP


BenRoethlisberger-1 Super Bowl Victory 5-Time All Star Hall of Famer
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Old 10-10-2006, 11:02 PM    (permalink
Basileus777
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Originally Posted by Shiver
He is much more than Ben has ever been.
I like Rivers and I think he is going to be a very good qb, but you give him too much credit too early and are really discounting Ben. I have never been a fan of Ben and have criticized him, but you are taking it to the extreme. He isn't an elite qb yet, but he has proved he can do more than manage the game. He proved that on the highest stage last year. In the AFC championship at Mile High he went 21/29 for 275 and 2 tds when his running game was averaging 2.7 ypc. That is doing more than managing the game. Without Ben or when he is playing poorly (like this year) the Steelers just aren't a very good team, that alone proves how valuable he is. Saying that Rivers is more now than Ben has ever been is absurd.
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