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Old 09-07-2007, 10:28 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
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how come peyton audibles every damn play?
cause he reads the D so well. On the TD pass to Wayne, to make it 17-10, he clearly saw something in the D, audibled and had Wayne in the end zone. They did a close up of him reading the field pre-snap right after he audibled, and it looked like he was smiling to himself saying "Eat this Jason David, TD right here"

also, for FF, I'd keep Duece, i think he's gonna get alot of short yardage TD's...
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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god am i prophetic.
his vision is definately something he needs to improve upon. he's too greedy.


i think the oline was a major problem all game though. they got destroyed by the colts dline all game.


Am I the only one who was impressed with Ugoh in his first game? He did a solid job against Smith.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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except for what, at the time, seemed to be a key third down when even holding smith he couldn't prevent him from dragging manning down and forcing the ball 10 feet off target.

but yeah.

not sure if it's been asked yet, but how the hell is jason david a starting nfl cornerback? he looked worse than deltha o'neal.
Yeah, he did hold the crap out of Smith that play. He'll get better with time. That was a big test for him last night, and he did a standup job. Peyton obviously helps with his release, but still, the man did what he had to do.

David is a square peg in a round hole. Ive never been a fan of taking a scheme player and trying to fit him in another scheme. It never works. Tampa 2 players are Tampa 2 players. You can't throw them in a different scheme. NO made a mistake doing that.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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for sure. and for a rookie, even a couple of blunders would've been impressive. but at least from a non-indy fans point of view, i didn't find myself thinking "god, they made a huge mistake losing glenn" at any point.



i have no idea why it took peyton so long to catch up to it. wayne had to make one move and david blew the coverage, every single time. even when they dropped to a zone, he failed completely to cover his zone properly. blech.
Payton reminds me of Charlie Weis in a sense that he needs a very good DC. He doesn't know how to build, run, teach, or adjust a defense for his life. NO needs to dedicate this offseason to defense, because they definately have tons of holes. Patchwork and smoke and mirros can work for a year, but to have continuous consistent success in this league you have to have talent. And right now, theres a major lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball.

I think teams are gonna start max protecting and airing it out against the Saints. The offense is gonna have to score alot of points this year.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Oh, another thing. I don't know if theres a DE duo thats scarier on 3rd and long than Freeney and Mathis. They may not be the best run stuffers out there, but on 3rd and long, there isn't a pass rushing duo out there better than them. They are amazingly fast.


And I don't know if theres a better pass rusher on 3rd and long than Dwight Freeney. Merriman is the man, but i don't know if id want anyone over Freeney rushing the passer on 3rd and long.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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I too thought that Tony Ugoh had a good outing for a rookie left tackle. He still has some work to do, but he held his own enough against one of the league's best RDEs in Will Smith, in the first official game of his career with the nation watching. I was very impressed with the plays he made in the running game, actually.

He held Smith a few times, but Jamaal Brown definitely held Freeney a number of times also. Every officiating staff has their own quirks.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Ugoh will be fine once he learns to play with more leverage and get those hips down as Madden said..

I loved his feet. Damn he can move.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Payton reminds me of Charlie Weis in a sense that he needs a very good DC. He doesn't know how to build, run, teach, or adjust a defense for his life. NO needs to dedicate this offseason to defense, because they definately have tons of holes. Patchwork and smoke and mirros can work for a year, but to have continuous consistent success in this league you have to have talent. And right now, theres a major lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball.

I think teams are gonna start max protecting and airing it out against the Saints. The offense is gonna have to score alot of points this year.
In response to your first paragraph, that's what I was saying all offseason. The Saints needed to go defense, defense, defense especially in the draft. After watching this game, it has me more upset that we didn't draft Paul Posluszny or Chris Houston. I applaud the Saints for trying to bring in some free agents who they felt could help the team. We went after and signed S Kevin Kaesviharn, CB Jason David, LB Brian Simmons, and DT Kendrick Clancy which is all fine and dandy, however, only two of them started the game last night. I understand why Kaesviharn didn't start, Bullocks and Harper are the Saints starting safeties, but why Brian Simmons didn't start over Mark Simoneau is just confusing. I know Simmons skill set is more suited towards OLB but he is an upgrade over Simoneau at the Mike and should have been inserted as the starter, plain and simple. Why did we go after him in the offseason if we were going to keep Simoneau in as the starting MLB?
The Saints should also have had Kendrick Clancy and Hollis Thomas as their starting DT's. Thomas should start at the nose with Clancy playing the gap. I know both of them have kind of similar skill sets with both having the ability to stop the run, but Clancy is more athletic and quicker than Thomas so he can do what the injured Brian Young did last year which is shoot the gap as well as play the run.

One thing that the Colts did that caught my eye is direct most of the runs to the outside. I thought it was odd that they were rushing in the direction of what is supposed to be the two studs of the Saints defense, Will Smith and Charles Grant, but it worked out and here's why. The Colts took advantage of Smith and Grant's aggressiveness. With those two DE's rushing the passer as they did last night, the quick Joseph Addai merely ran around them. Tony Ugoh did an admirable job against Will Smith although there were a few penalties that were not called against him. Ryan Diem also did his usual good job against Charles Grant.

The biggest problem, however, is the Saints secondary and despite their offseason acquisitions it still remains questionable. I did not think the Saints did enough in the offseason to adequately upgrade their secondary and this game proved it. Mike McKenzie is another year older and just is not the type of shutdown cornerback that we thought he would be when we brought him to New Orleans back in 2004. Jason David, while a definite upgrade over Fred Thomas, is not the type of corner that the Saints need in their man-to-man scheme. If Defensive Coordinator Gary Gibbs would have shifted to a more zone oriented scheme then Jason David would have been a better fit, however, I'm not sure where Roman Harper or Mike McKenzie would have fit in. Suffice to say, the Saints still need corner help which is something I've been preaching for a while. Still another reason why I am not happy with us drafting Robert Meachem with our first round pick this year.

While against a lesser quarterback than Peyton Manning the Saints corners will more than likely play better, Peyton just set the blue print for how to beat them which brings me to the second point. I feel you have hit the nail right on the head when you say that teams are going to max protect and start airing it out against the Saints. If they do that then there is no way our defensive personnel can stop them. We just do not have the guys to be able to stop it. Another point too is that the Saints offensive line HAS to do a better job of blocking. They looked piss poor last night but I do blame some of that on the play calling. They tried running too much misdirection, draw, and gimmick plays that take up too much time, which the Saints offensive line is not built for. They need to keep with the three step drop that they did last year and let Brees quickly get rid of the ball. They can't call plays that require the five to seven step drop because he will get pressured/sacked most of the time which is what happened last night against the Colts.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Drew Brees looked like he did back in San Diego. Fumbles, interceptions, and not very good under pressure.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Well, he's still a Top 5 QB in the league. -_-

I think there was some wondering about Joseph Addai's TD celebration last night. He's signaling the area/family/friends of his hometown in Houston, including his friend Lajuan (I'm sure you've seen one of the features on the touching story by each network last year).

Fun fact, Addai was a QB in high school (he throws lefty) and faced off against Vince Young one year.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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it's unfortunate that he's rendered almost useless the other two plays.
As I'm sure you know, DE's aren't paid to play the run. Furthermore, if you're relying on your DE's to stop the run, you've got bigger issues to deal with.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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In response to your first paragraph, that's what I was saying all offseason. The Saints needed to go defense, defense, defense especially in the draft. After watching this game, it has me more upset that we didn't draft Paul Posluszny or Chris Houston. I applaud the Saints for trying to bring in some free agents who they felt could help the team. We went after and signed S Kevin Kaesviharn, CB Jason David, LB Brian Simmons, and DT Kendrick Clancy which is all fine and dandy, however, only two of them started last year. I understand why Kaesviharn didn't start, Bullocks and Harper are the Saints starting safeties, but why Brian Simmons didn't start over Mark Simoneau is just confusing? I know Simmons skill set is more suited towards OLB but he is an upgrade over Simoneau at the Mike and should have been inserted as the starter, plain and simple. Why did we go after him in the offseason if we were going to keep Simoneau in as the starting MLB?
The Saints should have had Kendrick Clancy and Hollis Thomas as their starting DT's. Thomas should start at the nose with Clancy playing the gap. I know both of them have kind of similar skill sets with both having the ability to stop the run, but Clancy is more athletic and is quicker than Thomas so he could do what the injured Brian Young did last year which is shoot the gap.

One thing that the Colts did that caught my eye is direct most of the runs to the outside. I thought it was odd that they were rushing in the direction of what is supposed to be the two studs of the Saints defense, Will Smith and Charles Grant, but it worked out and here's why. The Colts took advantage of Smith and Grant's aggressiveness. With those two DE's rushing the passer as they did last night, the quick Joseph Addai merely ran around them. Tony Ugoh did an admirable job against Will Smith although there were a few penalties that were not called against him. Ryan Diem also did his usual good job against Charles Grant.

The biggest problem, however, is the Saints secondary and despite their offseason acquisitions it still remains questionable. I did not think the Saints did enough in the offseason to adequately upgrade their secondary and this game proved it. Mike McKenzie is another year older and just is not the type of shutdown cornerback that we thought he would be when we brought him to New Orleans back in 2004. Jason David, while a definite upgrade over Fred Thomas, is not the type of corner that the Saints need in their man-to-man scheme. If Defensive Coordinator Gary Gibbs would have shifted to a more zone oriented scheme then Jason David would have been a better fit, however, I'm not sure where Roman Harper or Mike McKenzie would have fit in. Suffice to say, the Saints still need corner help which is something I've been preaching for a while. Still another reason why I am still not happy with us drafting Robert Meachem with our first round pick last year.

While against a lesser quarterback than Peyton Manning, the Saints corners will more than likely play better, Peyton just set the blue print for how to beat them which brings me to the second point. I feel you have hit the nail right on the head when you say that teams are going to max protect and start airing it out against the Saints. If they do that then there is no way our defensive personnel can stop them. We just do not have the guys to be able to stop it. Another point too is that the Saints offensive line HAS to do a better job of blocking. They looked piss poor last night but I do blame some of that on the play calling. They tried running too much misdirection, draw, and gimmick plays that take up too much time, which the Saints offensive line is not built for. They need to keep with the three step drop that they did last year and let Brees quickly get rid of the ball. They can't call play that require the five to seven step drop because he will get pressured/sacked most of the time.
yup, you pretty much hit it on the head. great post.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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As I'm sure you know, DE's aren't paid to play the run. Furthermore, if you're relying on your DE's to stop the run, you've got bigger issues to deal with.
i think freeney has potential to stop the run. he has an underrated bullrush, and great athleticism. i just think he was never taught how to make a commitment to it. part of that is scheme, and part of that is him, but for whatever reason, instead of being a top tier DE, he'll establish himself as this generation's Derrick Thomas instead.
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Old 09-07-2007, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Freddie Keiaho was a beast out there. He is much better than Cato June is. He is explosive, fast and hits. Something June never did much of.

I think Sean Payton did an awful job as a play-caller. He tried too hard to be 'creative' and 'innovative.' Some times you just need to line up and knock some heads. They had success on their first drive by pounding the rock with Deuce McAllister, attacking the Colts middle which is still their weakness with an UDFA rookie starting at NT. After that first drive he tried too much razzle dazzle and the Colts' defensive speed neutralized it.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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holy epic novel, batman.

do you really think jason david's inability to cover a single move route had anything to do with peyton? granted, he might get better, but it sure looked like my little sister could've been beating him like a drum all night.
Peyton Manning being the quarterback he is and knowing when to throw the ball at the right time did have something to do with Jason David's coverage. No matter how tight or loose the coverage is, Manning knows when the receiver will make a break out of his route and knows exactly when to throw the ball. The receiver more than likely also knows when the ball will be thrown to him so he knows when to expect it. Jason David does not, no matter if he was a former member of the Colts or not. One problem I did see though was that Jason David was also paying more attention to Manning than the receiver. If you watch footage of what David did last night you can see that on every play that he was scored on his head was faced towards the quarterback and not to the receiver. It also doesn't help when the two people you were covering last night in Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne happen to be two of the best receivers in the NFL right now. Jason David is not that bad of a corner, he was just exploited by the members of his former team who knew his weaknesses. I'm sure your little sister would have been shutdown by Jason David even if Peyton Manning was throwing her the ball.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Am I the only one who was impressed with Ugoh in his first game?
I was definitely impressed watching him live. He seemed to have Tarik Glenn's game down, from the solid pass pro to the mauling run blocking and even down to the early false start against one of the better DEs in the league.

I'm kind of curious about Shiver's thoughts on his performance...

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not sure if it's been asked yet, but how the hell is jason david a starting nfl cornerback? he looked worse than deltha o'neal.
That's a question I asked myself for 3 years. I told Saints fans before the game that these 5 words would haunt them throughout the game, those being:

Jason David versus Reggie Wayne

I'm glad Manning got to victimize him on opening night the way so many opposing QBs did while he was with the Colts.

Other thoughts on the game:

- Freddy Keiaho looked great, and it was nice to see him bring the hammer on a couple occasions. The best part of his game IMO, and what made him look like an improvement over June last night, was consistency. The maddening thing about June was he would break into the backfield and make a TFL on the RB one play, then get trucked by the same RB the very next play. Keiaho didn't do that last night, and hopefully that will continue.

- Per NFL.com:

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Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.

Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).
http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/intentionalgrounding

So, how was Brees not called for Intentional Grounding when Freeney had him all but sacked and he flipped the ball to and offensive lineman? Was he considered out of the pocket? He appeared to be in the middle of the field watching it live. I'm curious, because the Illegal Touching call was valid, but it didn't seem to be the only foul on the play, and obviously any team would prefer Intentional Grounding to Illegal Touching.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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I already posted my thoughts about Ugoh a few pages back. In summary: so far so good. I was more surprised that the Colts' defense played so well, whereas I figured Mudd would have Ugoh ready for week 1.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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So, how was Brees not called for Intentional Grounding when Freeney had him all but sacked and he flipped the ball to and offensive lineman? Was he considered out of the pocket? He appeared to be in the middle of the field watching it live. I'm curious, because the Illegal Touching call was valid, but it didn't seem to be the only foul on the play, and obviously any team would prefer Intentional Grounding to Illegal Touching.
Illegal touching almost sounds dirty.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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To be fair Wayne did that the same things to Darrent Williams a year ago. He does it to a lot of teams actually. Most of those corners can handle the typical #2 receiver, but when they face a Reggie Wayne, TJ Houshmandzadeh or Anquan Boldin they show why they are not #1 corners.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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you underestimate my little sister. she's pretty fast for being short and a girl.

regardless, david bit BIG on any move wayne made and was completely unable to recover. even in a vague cover 2, he compeltely failed to drop back in his zone properly. i'm not saying he can't get better or won't be excellent next week even, but that was one of the top five worst cornerback performances i've ever seen.
Fred Thomas owns 3 of the top 5 worst cornerback performances.
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They said I couldn't be a high school QB. They said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship. BeerBaron said I couldn't beat the Bears. - Tebow

Proving the doubters wrong.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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Illegal touching almost sounds dirty.
That's like something I'd do with a 16 year old.

I would love for Chad Johnson to get ahold of David, I think it might even be worse than Fred Thomas.

njx, the bad corner you're looking for is Tory James, not Deltha. Deltha was amazing in '05, above average in '04 and below average last year. He's inconsistant but he doesn't have a bad tendency of getting burned deep like Tory did.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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I would love for Chad Johnson to get ahold of David
He did in 2005. Remember that LONG TD pass Johnson caught? Guess who was supposed to jam him, but instead completely whiffed? The fact that Bob Sanders nearly made a touchdown saving tackle on that play is a testament to his amazing speed.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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love is in the air.......

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Old 09-08-2007, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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i dont know about anyone else but i cant wait till tommarow..too bad i have to resort to listening to the steeler game =(
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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i dont know about anyone else but i cant wait till tommarow..too bad i have to resort to listening to the steeler game =(
Look at it this day if its an opening day fiasco your only a few clicks away from music....
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