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Old 09-08-2007, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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How cute. An official Reggie Bush thread. Imagine that.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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How cute. An official Reggie Bush thread. Imagine that.
If I had to deal with "Michael Vick debate" threads for three years I think you can manage. You haven't been what I've been through, especially through the past year. Now that Vick is off the Falcons a tremendous weight has been lifted off of my shoulders. It's actually a relief. I say that knowing that as soon as Harrington stinks up the joint I will be clamoring for Vick's exciting, but frustrating, play.


As long as there are players that garner what many deem as a befitting amount of hype and money there will be polarizing discussions. It's the nature of the beast. What better topic to kick off the new NFC South board?
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:22 AM    (permalink
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It drives me nuts too. Al Michaels called him "the electric one" when he got the ball on a PR, it was insanity. I'm just glad the Saints are mesmerized by Bush and neglect to give McAllister touches. If they do that against the Falcons I will be so glad. It's McAllister that I fear. He actually can make runs of over 20+ yards. You know you have lousy vision when you're as fast as anyone else in the NFL and you cannot break a 20+ yard run as a RB.
McAllister is the one who will win us games too, not Bush. Sean Payton is just mesmerized with all of the gimmick plays that he can think up with Bush so that is why he implements him as much as he does in the offense. If you were to take Reggie, put him in motion to where he lines up in the slot and has a linebacker covering him, then you have the mismatch you're looking for. You could also keep McAllister in the backfield so that teams don't know if you're going to dump it off to Reggie or hand it off to Deuce. It makes perfectly logical sense to do those type of things with someone like Bush in the backfield. It doesn't make sense to hand him the ball and tell him to run a sweep. Defense in the NFL are too fast for sweeps to work. The same thing with a swing pass. You get one chance to do a sweep or swing pass. If it works, great, if not then don't do it again. Never do a sweep or swing pass twice.
Sometimes it takes some good old fashioned smash mouth football to win some games and that's what the Saints game plan should have been against the Colts. Play ball control offense and ram the ball in between the tackles. They also should have never gotten out of their Cover 2 defense which they used in the first half but that is for another rant. Having the defense respect the running game will then set up the play action and also sets up those short dink passes to Bush. I'm sure that most DC's fear McAllister over Bush and that is because he has proven he is a productive back in the NFL and is more than capable of getting it done. However, he needs 20+ carries a game to do that and that won't happen with him splitting time with Reggie Bush. Bush is a good role player that can help open up the offense. He is nothing more than that. The glue is McAllister.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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INDIANAPOLIS -- Reggie Bush partied at the Playboy Mansion this offseason. He ate at the White House. He filmed a commercial in Spain. He attended a Grammy gathering with big-voiced R&B star Ciara, and he began a relationship with big-bootied sex-tape star Kim Kardashian.

Here's one thing Reggie Bush didn't do this offseason:

Improve as a football player.


What happens when the ultimate X-factor becomes a nonfactor? Well, this pretty much says it all. (US Presswire)
Then again, let's be fair. Bush did hurt his ankle a few months ago ... playing in a celebrity basketball game in Las Vegas.

What a knucklehead. After a rookie year in which he caught 88 passes, ran for 565 yards, returned a punt for a touchdown and helped the New Orleans Saints reach the NFC Championship Game, Bush had the opportunity this offseason to live the life of the jet-setting young superstar. And by God he took it. He became the centerpiece of at least nine national advertising campaigns, with the commercial shoots and photo shoots and everything else that goes with it. He was a paparazzi magnet in Hollywood, where he bought a $5 million offseason home.

He missed a month of offseason workouts with teammates.

The Saints let Bush have his fun this offseason, presumably because he was exhausted after playing 22 games last year, exhibitions and playoffs included. Bush was far from the only Saint, or only Saints rookie, to play so many games, but he was the only one named Reggie Bush. This is a guy who has been handed everything, including his place of residence at college, since he was a teenager. Hard work and crazy genetics got him this far, but Bush spent his first NFL offseason betraying both.

Which brings us to Thursday night, a 41-10 loss to the Colts. In the first game of his second NFL season, Bush was terrible. He made bad cuts. He dropped two passes. He got run down by two linebackers. His final numbers were inflated by the Saints' final drive against a disinterested, prevent-playing Colts defense, and still his final numbers were ugly: 12 rushes for 38 yards, four catches for 7 yards, one punt return for 2 yards.

The better second-year back in this game was the Colts' Joseph Addai, who went No. 30 overall in the 2006 draft -- 28 spots behind Bush -- but with 1,081 rushing yards nearly doubled Bush's rookie output. That continued Thursday, with Addai rushing for 118 yards and even outproducing Bush through the air (three catches, 25 yards).

But Bush has other things over Addai. It was Bush, not Addai, who witnessed the running of the bulls this offseason in Spain. It was Bush who was invited to play in that celebrity basketball game during the NBA All-Star Break. And who snagged Ciara, and then Kardashian. And who became the NFL's second busiest endorser, after Peyton Manning.

And it was Bush who went from star to stiff.

Bush wasn't just human Thursday night. He was bad, physically and mentally. His first touch was a punt return early in the first quarter, when he wiggled and juked and danced for two yards before being corralled in the open field by Colts immortal Matt Giordano. Moments later Bush pulled in his first reception on second and 4, and with the RCA Dome crowd groaning at all the open field in front of him, he cut into the teeth of the defense and was tackled short of the first down. That drive later ended when Bush was obliterated in the backfield for a 3-yard loss.

The Saints offense struggled until its third possession, which Bush killed when he dropped a pass on third and 3 from the Colts 16 -- forcing the Saints to settle for a field goal. Before the half was finished, Bush would be chased down by Colts linebacker Rob Morris on the left corner, and by linebacker Freddie Keiaho on the right corner.

In fairness to him, Bush wasn't the reason the Saints got rolled Thursday night. Addai was better than Bush, true, but Manning was better than the Saints' Drew Brees. Colts receivers Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were better than Marques Colston and Devery Henderson. The Colts defense looked faster than the Saints defense. Colts kicker Adam Vinatieri was more accurate than Olindo Mare. This was domination, up and down both sides of the ball and on special teams.

But that's where Bush comes in. The Saints picked him No. 2 overall to be an athletic equalizer. He's supposed to shrink the gap between teams like the Colts and Saints ... not blow it wide open.

Bush's final play of the game was an interception that Giordano returned for a touchdown. An instant before Bush could grab Giordano from behind, he was taken out by a sloppy offensive lineman. Bush slowly stood, walked to the bench and sat down with his head in his hands.

An hour later, while most of his teammates were climbing into jeans and T-shirts, Bush lovingly pulled on a crisp yellow Oxford, beige tie, light brown three-piece suit -- vest buttoned to the hilt -- and leather wing-tips. He placed a diamond into each ear. He wheeled a designer handbag and slung a Heisman Trophy backpack over his right shoulder. He looked a lot better in the locker room than he looked on the field, I'll tell you that.

And then Bush disappeared, leaving for the team bus. Saints officials said he would return to meet the media, but he never did. The media understood. Reggie Bush had just spent three hours embarrassing himself on national television. He wasn't coming back.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10337299

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Old 09-08-2007, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Guess I'm not the only person who can see...
That article is ridiculous though. I don't like Reggie Bush and I sure agree that he is overrated, but this article rips him apart because of one game he played this season, and becuase he has a personal life in the offseason...

Tons of football players are involved in relationships with celebrities. Or go to major events. LaDainian Tomlinson played in that same All-Star game, but I don't think this guy would dare call him out for that. He's going to victimize him for signing endorsement deals? Name one player who wouldn't in his situation. Is it that big of a deal that Bush has a life, or is this guy just so mad that Addai doesn't, it sounds like a 12 year old complaining. "Bush has this, Addai doesn't..." etc. It's ridiculous, the guy buys a house, and now its a problem because the media, guys like him, are interested in it? What is he supposed to do, he's making a lot of money, should he not get to use it?

Reggie Bush is overrated. And he didn't help the Saints vs. the Colts. But no one on the Saints helped them win that game. And it was just one game, but this guy attacks Bush right away.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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"Sometimes it takes some good old fashioned smash mouth football to win some games and that's what the Saints game plan should have been against the Colts. Play ball control offense and ram the ball in between the tackles."

The way our offensive played in the opener, we had to go another direction. The Colts were shutting down the run whether it was Bush or Deuce in the backfield.
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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You didn't give Deuce enough touches...that's pretty much all there is to it...10 in a game...he can pound the ball on that D.
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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To support Matt Giordano, he has to be one of the fastest guys on the Colts roster easily.

Reggie Bush, IMO, had one good play on Thursday. I believe it was for a first down in which he pile drived the interior of the Colts DL and got the first down. I think it was early 4th quarter or late 3rd but he did have that one good drive. However, all he did after that was drop passes and attempt going to the outside only when to be tripped up by a Colts LB (which I was proud of btw, can't remember the last time I saw Colts LB'ers tackling consistently).

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with just how bad most of the Saints, not named Scott Fujita looked last night.
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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anybody who thinks reggie bush is a bust just doenst know the facts... I'm not a saints fan im not a bush supporter..

Look at the split between the first half and second half of the year. Plus the playoffs. end of story.

Payton allowed him to be great. but that doesnt mean he did his best. He split time!!
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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It was late in the fourth and it was vanilla defense...reggie did nothing at all when defense was actually playing...
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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It was late in the fourth and it was vanilla defense...reggie did nothing at all when defense was actually playing...
Nah I just remembered that the Saints were going the opposite way that they were going in the 4th. It was right around Aaron Stecker's run.
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, once again, this is pointless. So what if he had a social life in the off-season? What the hell does that have to do with anything? More importantly, what does that have to do with football? Nothing.

The writer who wrote that is a complete idiot. I mean, at least you're trying to base it off some legitimate on the field problems he has. Sure, sometimes he doesn't exhibit great vision or he'll bounce it outside the tackles way too often - but those can be corrected, and if I had to say based off pre-season and the few carries he did have, he improved on it quite a bit in the off-season.

Once again, Reggie Bush played poor versus the Colts, but so did the entire team. The Saints offensive line run blocking was complete crap in that game. They got man handled by the Colts defensive line. Deuce couldn't get anything going for that same reason. Bush would have been better off bouncing some more runs out in that case.

Now, that said, you're right and I completely agree - Bush is overhyped. Of course, a lot of players both in the NFL and college are overhyped, but that doesn't mean they won't be good or great players.

So, if Bush plays like this every game, then I'll gladly say you're right, if thats what you're looking for. Until then, just ease up. He's overhyped, but he's still a good young player that has some things to learn, just like every young player does. You jumped the gun way too early on making this thread...
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Once again, Reggie Bush played poor versus the Colts, but so did the entire team. The Saints offensive line run blocking was complete crap in that game. They got man handled by the Colts defensive line. Deuce couldn't get anything going for that same reason. Bush would have been better off bouncing some more runs out in that case.
Bingo. I don't think the concept is that hard to grasp.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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I really think the only reason that he didn't get anything goin was because they kept trying to give Bush touches, Deuce can get it rollin real easy.

You say I jumped the gun? I've been saying this since he was at USC that he was overrated and that in the pros he's going to get killed. He's just not the 2nd coming of Gale Sayers or anything like people were saying. He's a really good football player, but not a runningback. I've been screaming this from the beginning...and I don't want to be posting it after the fact...
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Bingo. I don't think the concept is that hard to grasp.
No, I get that, really, I do. That's not the Saints team that will show up the rest of the year, go to the Saints forum and read what I had to say about that. I know that the Colts dominated the entire team...but if Bush was THAT good, then he'd have been able to do something SOMETHING for them.

People say Vick was overrated, but look what he was doing with a TERRIBLE O-Line and how many games he kept us in, how many drives he kept alive, I mean people just hate on Vick for no reason other than the Falcons didn't help him really by putting appropriate talent around him. But Bush is supposed to be transcendent better than Vick, and Vick carried pitiful teams to average records. For instance 5-11 and 3-1 with Vick...Seems to be the easiest thing in the world to see.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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No, I get that, really, I do. That's not the Saints team that will show up the rest of the year, go to the Saints forum and read what I had to say about that. I know that the Colts dominated the entire team...but if Bush was THAT good, then he'd have been able to do something SOMETHING for them.
Why would you assume that? If Deuce can't run behind our offensive line because of our poor run blocking why would you expect Bush to do the same when he's not as good as a runner as Deuce? I'm missing that logic.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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He saying that if Reggie Bush was as good of a player as he's hyped to be. He is supposed to be "Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk." That's really the only reason Bush has such a bullseye whenever he doesn't do very well. It's the media's fault.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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He's been handed everything forever, including unwarranted praise. He played in one of the weakest conferences in football on a team that would be good in one of the big boy conferences his stats got really skewed. Yes, he's fast, no he's not as fast as everyone wants him to be. Yes, he's a good football player, no he's not a good runningback. Everyone says he's great he should be able to overcome a bad OL...a la Barry...but he's not so that's what bothers me. Shiver is exactly right.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to add that there are fans here who are also the ones responsible for Bush being overrated. Not the Saints' fans though, they are very level headed here for the most part.
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Marshawn Lynch just did something in under 3 quarters that Reggie has yet to do in 17 games. Get a run over 20 yards.
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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The media seems to love runningbacks who love to dance around and lose 10 yards. For some reason I don't share this infatuation.
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to add that there are fans here who are also the ones responsible for Bush being overrated. Not the Saints' fans though, they are very level headed here for the most part.
Exactly. I actually feel bad for the Saints fans who are facing the brunt of the anti-bush sentiment, since they really have very little to do with his hype train. All the hype came from the media, and from mostly non-Saints fans on here. People saying he would be better than Faulk, better than LDT. People saying he would come in and dominate. They weren't Saints fans. Anyway, the thing with Reggie and people saying he just needs more time, he's young, Rome wasn't built in a day, blah blah blah. That holds true with QBs, with OL/DL, WRs and DBs. But RBs generally make a splash right away. Let's have a look.

Addai:

118 yards last week, TD, 5.1 average. Last year had over 1000 yards and 4.8 average.

Adrian Peterson:

19 carries 103 yards. 60 yards receiving and a TD as well. 5.4 per carry.

Marshawn Lynch:

19/90 TD, 4.7 ypc. Looked better than the numbers suggest, as I watched the game. Was punishing guys all over, and his TD run was amazing. he had a run on 4th and 2, where he was hit at the LOS, his helmet FLEW back, like seriously FLEW, and he still got the 1st on a second effort.

MJD:

166/941, 13 TD, 5.7 ypc.

Disappointing today, however. 7/32, which is still 4.6 ypc.

Now, let's look at Bush.

155/565 6 TD 3.6 ypc.

And on thursday, 12/38 3.2 ypc.


Reggie is really the only one who can't get any success on the ground. And he's on arguably the best offense of these(at worst, 2nd), why can't he get it done?
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Mario Williams has a fumble recovery with a return for more than 20 yards!


Bush is the NFL's next Desmond Howard. As soon as Sean Peyton stop's trying to feature everything around him, he'll be a third down back and a punt returner.
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Old 09-09-2007, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Mario Williams has a fumble recovery with a return for more than 20 yards!


Bush is the NFL's next Desmond Howard. As soon as Sean Peyton stop's trying to feature everything around him, he'll be a third down back and a punt returner.

Check the top 500 players thread, the last post I made as a reminder to Ewing.
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Old 09-09-2007, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Just trying to look at his rushing stats doesn't do him justice though. Hes definitely a dynamic player.

He had well over 1000 all purpose yards and 8 TDs if you combine his rushing and receiving numbers. He had a solid year last year and I can only see him getting better as he learns how to play at this level.

The thing about Reggie compared to Joe Addai (who I absolutely love by the way) is that Addai was already used to the style of running thats successful in the NFL. One cut and run. Bush still has a lot to learn about running the ball in the league. He may never be a guy like Addai but I can see him as a 1000 yard rusher eventually.
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