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Old 12-11-2006, 07:23 PM    (permalink
jblaze66
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by keylime_5
Vince Young is inhuman. He's already a great quaterback and he hasn't even started but about a dozen games as a pro

Don't say that! The purists will bring out the stats sheet and claim he's a running back playing out of position. :roll:
IMO he is more in the mold of a McNair or McNabb, he will spend alot of time running around until he learns the offense and how to read pro style defenses. Eventually he will become more of a pocket guy, however I don't think he will be AS pocket oriented as McNabb had become because he will not be as good a passer as McNabb.

Vick simply put is not and never will be a great passer, therefore he must continue to create plays with his legs, VY will become more than that.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
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If Bush should not win it because of his lackluster rushing efforts, should Vince Young not be penalized for his lackluster passer rating?

Different positions, rookie 'Backs usually succeed right away, while rooke Quarterbacks do not.
I don't understand your point. Are you insinuating that a rookie QB with mediocre to bad numbers deserves ROY over running backs with good numbers?
Titans with Vince Young 6-4.
Titans with Reggie Bush 0-10.
And again, if this was the rookie MVP award, he would win. It's not. It's rookie of the year, team accomplishments should be entirely superfulous. Would Anquan Boldin have won his rookie year on a 4-12 team if it was?
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
If Bush should not win it because of his lackluster rushing efforts, should Vince Young not be penalized for his lackluster passer rating?

Different positions, rookie 'Backs usually succeed right away, while rooke Quarterbacks do not.
I don't understand your point. Are you insinuating that a rookie QB with mediocre to bad numbers deserves ROY over running backs with good numbers?
Numbers don't tell the whole story. Look at how they have played and I think it's clear that Vince Young is #1 right now.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by keylime_5
Vince Young is inhuman. He's already a great quaterback and he hasn't even started but about a dozen games as a pro

Don't say that! The purists will bring out the stats sheet and claim he's a running back playing out of position. :roll:
IMO he is more in the mold of a McNair or McNabb, he will spend alot of time running around until he learns the offense and how to read pro style defenses. Eventually he will become more of a pocket guy, however I don't think he will be AS pocket oriented as McNabb had become because he will not be as good a passer as McNabb.

Vick simply put is not and never will be a great passer, therefore he must continue to create plays with his legs, VY will become more than that.
I kind of agree with that however Vince Young is much faster and has better moves than McNabb. McNabb isnt that great of a pocket passer its just that he throws a great deep ball. Probably better than Vince's deep ball will ever be. But Vince will become a good passer in the NFL with time and a better overall passer than McNabb in my opinion. McNabb has trouble with 10-25 yard routes the intermediate stuff plus he has stretches in games where he is very inconsistant.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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I have a hard time giving the ROY to a guy with 51.7 completion % and a 66 QB rating. Statistically Matt Leinart is better in every major passing category. Other than the last 3 weeks Young has been pretty bad. I think it is between Drew, Bush and Colston, and maybe Addai if he turns it up.
Stats are misleading, if you were to add in his rushing touchdowns for a qb rating, it would be much better. Plus, 2 interceptions that I've seen weren't his fault. His interception against Houston his receiver just got outmuscled and didn't make the effort to defend the ball. Had it been Anquan Boldin that would not have been the case. Not sure which game, but the very last play before half time instead of taking a knee he threw a long bomb that got picked. If Young was throwing to Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitz, his numbers would be amazing. Vince wins and thats all there is to it. Leinart couldn't do anything but watch Vince run into the end zone and win the game at the Rose Bowl.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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If Anyone was throwing to Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitz, his numbers would be amazing.
Fixed for accuracy.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jblaze66
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by keylime_5
Vince Young is inhuman. He's already a great quaterback and he hasn't even started but about a dozen games as a pro

Don't say that! The purists will bring out the stats sheet and claim he's a running back playing out of position. :roll:
IMO he is more in the mold of a McNair or McNabb, he will spend alot of time running around until he learns the offense and how to read pro style defenses. Eventually he will become more of a pocket guy, however I don't think he will be AS pocket oriented as McNabb had become because he will not be as good a passer as McNabb.
Vince Young is a far superior athlete to McNabb and McNair, and only slightly behind Vick in the freak athlete ability.

Quote:
Vick simply put is not and never will be a great passer, therefore he must continue to create plays with his legs, VY will become more than that.
Vick's passing is no worse than Steve McNair at the same point of their respective career. While I do agree, Vince has more upside as a passer than any of the aformentioned players, only because of his height advantage.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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If Anyone was throwing to Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitz, his numbers would be amazing.
Fixed for accuracy.
i guess i can argue kurt warner, and josh mccown.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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I have a hard time giving the ROY to a guy with 51.7 completion % and a 66 QB rating. Statistically Matt Leinart is better in every major passing category. Other than the last 3 weeks Young has been pretty bad. I think it is between Drew, Bush and Colston, and maybe Addai if he turns it up.
Stats are misleading, if you were to add in his rushing touchdowns for a qb rating, it would be much better. Plus, 2 interceptions that I've seen weren't his fault. His interception against Houston his receiver just got outmuscled and didn't make the effort to defend the ball. Had it been Anquan Boldin that would not have been the case. Not sure which game, but the very last play before half time instead of taking a knee he threw a long bomb that got picked. If Young was throwing to Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitz, his numbers would be amazing. Vince wins and thats all there is to it. Leinart couldn't do anything but watch Vince run into the end zone and win the game at the Rose Bowl.
There's just a little bit of irony as Fitzgerald had the ball outmuscled and ripped from his hands just this pass Sunday for a Leinart interception, and Anquan Boldin had over five drops against the Rams, and has had some trouble with his hands this year.

But on a somewhat unrelated note, I hate when people trash the QB rating (which isn't perfect) and then go on to site wins/losses as a legitimate measure of which to judge quarterbacks. It isn't. Wins and losses should only be used to judge a team's performance, whereas statistics were created for the sole purpose of determining an individual's performance. No players are "immune" to stats. If Vince had been playing at the same level this last month over the course of the entire year, he'd be ROY. Both Colston and Ryans have been playing at a high level the entire season (consistency is the most important trait of a player) and therefore are more deserving.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cunningham06
If Anyone was throwing to Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitz, his numbers would be amazing.
Fixed for accuracy.
i guess i can argue kurt warner, and josh mccown.
Josh McCown had quite a few big games. Even Kurt Warner had five 300 yard games with those two in '05.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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DEVIN HESTER!! :D
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Devin Hester.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Its such a great class of ROokies its hard to pick. Young, Bush, Hester, Colston, Drew, Addai. I'd go wit hVY right now but there are lots of deserving candidates
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
I have a hard time giving the ROY to a guy with 51.7 completion % and a 66 QB rating. Statistically Matt Leinart is better in every major passing category. Other than the last 3 weeks Young has been pretty bad. I think it is between Drew, Bush and Colston, and maybe Addai if he turns it up.
Stats are misleading, if you were to add in his rushing touchdowns for a qb rating, it would be much better. Plus, 2 interceptions that I've seen weren't his fault. His interception against Houston his receiver just got outmuscled and didn't make the effort to defend the ball. Had it been Anquan Boldin that would not have been the case. Not sure which game, but the very last play before half time instead of taking a knee he threw a long bomb that got picked. If Young was throwing to Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitz, his numbers would be amazing. Vince wins and thats all there is to it. Leinart couldn't do anything but watch Vince run into the end zone and win the game at the Rose Bowl.
There's just a little bit of irony as Fitzgerald had the ball outmuscled and ripped from his hands just this pass Sunday for a Leinart interception, and Anquan Boldin had over five drops against the Rams, and has had some trouble with his hands this year.

But on a somewhat unrelated note, I hate when people trash the QB rating (which isn't perfect) and then go on to site wins/losses as a legitimate measure of which to judge quarterbacks. It isn't. Wins and losses should only be used to judge a team's performance, whereas statistics were created for the sole purpose of determining an individual's performance. No players are "immune" to stats. If Vince had been playing at the same level this last month over the course of the entire year, he'd be ROY. Both Colston and Ryans have been playing at a high level the entire season (consistency is the most important trait of a player) and therefore are more deserving.
I am willing to bet you any amount of money that the Titans receivers have dropped more balls on Vince, and let more catchable or just deflectable balls get intercepted. That and Edge is an above average receiver out of the backfield. No Vince isn't immune to stats, but look at the games he has won, he has used his legs very effectively, for example in the Texans game. Look at the Titans before Vince and look at them after, before Vince most people thought they would have a top 5 draft pick for sure, but he turned it around. What has Leinart done? If your team is losing it's the quarterbacks job to play to win and put his stats in the back seat. Carr had the highest qb rating in the NFL earlier this season, but the Texans weren't doing anything except losing. Vince's added dimension of being able to run the ball makes him better than Leinart easily. There is no doubt in my mind about Vince's superiority to Leinart.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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1: Vince Young
2: Mo Drew
3: Colston
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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1: Devin Hester
2: Vince Young
3: Mo Drew
4: Colston
:D
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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If Hester wins it, I'll stop watching football all together.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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If Hester wins it, I'll stop watching football all together.
Good for you.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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If Hester wins it, I'll stop watching football all together.
Good for you.
Quite.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:48 AM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by BrownsTown
If Hester wins it, I'll stop watching football all together.
Being a Browns fan should have done that years ago.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:49 AM    (permalink
sweetness34
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Originally Posted by BrownsTown
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Originally Posted by BrownsTown
If Hester wins it, I'll stop watching football all together.
Good for you.
Quite.
You enamour me with your incredible intellectualness (yes I know it's not a word) and knowledge.

Hester should be in the discussion for it. Sure he can't win it but he's had arguably one of the biggest impacts of any rookie this season, while breaking a 25 year record for return TD's in a season.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:49 AM    (permalink
smittyjs
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownsTown
If Hester wins it, I'll stop watching football all together.
Being a Browns fan should have done that years ago.
Nice burn
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