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Old 12-11-2006, 07:12 PM    (permalink
Shiver
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Originally Posted by njx9
my vote would be no on him if i had a gun to my head, but then, i think san diego fans are only defending him because he's on san diego. had peyton manning been caught with steroids, i'm sure they'd be jumping all over themselves to agree that it should disqualify him from contending with LT for the award.
Well the big anti-Merriman fans are either rivals (NIP, easyb) or fans of the team that took Ware over him (dwaresackmachine). There is an agenda either way.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by njx9
my vote would be no on him if i had a gun to my head, but then, i think san diego fans are only defending him because he's on san diego. had peyton manning been caught with steroids, i'm sure they'd be jumping all over themselves to agree that it should disqualify him from contending with LT for the award.
Well the big anti-Merriman fans are either rivals (NIP, easyb) or fans of the team that took Ware over him (dwaresackmachine). There is an agenda either way.
sure, there always is here. although honestly, i haven't seen many AFC West folks calling for peyton for MVP over LT. *shrug*
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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I'm a Chargers fan so if anything I have a pro-merriman agenda if anything.

He plain doesn't deserve the award over Jason Taylor (and Champ Bailey IMO) at this point. That's putting the steriod issue aside and treating it like an injury.

That being said, I do think he's the best defensive player in the AFC.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
my vote would be no on him if i had a gun to my head, but then, i think san diego fans are only defending him because he's on san diego. had peyton manning been caught with steroids, i'm sure they'd be jumping all over themselves to agree that it should disqualify him from contending with LT for the award.
Well the big anti-Merriman fans are either rivals (NIP, easyb) or fans of the team that took Ware over him (dwaresackmachine). There is an agenda either way.
Where do I fall under that?
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
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Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
my vote would be no on him if i had a gun to my head, but then, i think san diego fans are only defending him because he's on san diego. had peyton manning been caught with steroids, i'm sure they'd be jumping all over themselves to agree that it should disqualify him from contending with LT for the award.
Well the big anti-Merriman fans are either rivals (NIP, easyb) or fans of the team that took Ware over him (dwaresackmachine). There is an agenda either way.
Where do I fall under that?
you're a jason taylor homer.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by njx9
my vote would be no on him if i had a gun to my head, but then, i think san diego fans are only defending him because he's on san diego. had peyton manning been caught with steroids, i'm sure they'd be jumping all over themselves to agree that it should disqualify him from contending with LT for the award.
Well the big anti-Merriman fans are either rivals (NIP, easyb) or fans of the team that took Ware over him (dwaresackmachine). There is an agenda either way.
Where do I fall under that?
you're a jason taylor homer.
What about before the JT4MVP stuff when he was first suspended?
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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No, by "anti-Merriman" I mean those who consider that 'he was caught once, he will always be considered a cheater' group.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
No, by "anti-Merriman" I mean those who consider that 'he was caught once, he will always be considered a cheater' group.
Yah those people need to get laid or go outside more. BTW I think Champ's stock has dropped quite a bit with a 4 game nosedive. It's probably down to Taylor, Peppers and Urlacher.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
No, by "anti-Merriman" I mean those who consider that 'he was caught once, he will always be considered a cheater' group.
Yah those people need to get laid or go outside more. BTW I think Champ's stock has dropped quite a bit with a 4 game nosedive. It's probably down to Taylor, Peppers and Urlacher.
Or you could grow a set of morals.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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No, by "anti-Merriman" I mean those who consider that 'he was caught once, he will always be considered a cheater' group.
Yah those people need to get laid or go outside more.
brilliant response. :roll:
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by Shiver
No, by "anti-Merriman" I mean those who consider that 'he was caught once, he will always be considered a cheater' group.
Yah those people need to get laid or go outside more. BTW I think Champ's stock has dropped quite a bit with a 4 game nosedive. It's probably down to Taylor, Peppers and Urlacher.
Or you could grow a set of morals.

Oh boy, how we should all aspire be as moralistic as all the Cheifs and Raiders fans in this thread. Creating your own version of the truth about someone you don't know is apparently very morally upstanding.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by Shiver
No, by "anti-Merriman" I mean those who consider that 'he was caught once, he will always be considered a cheater' group.
Yah those people need to get laid or go outside more. BTW I think Champ's stock has dropped quite a bit with a 4 game nosedive. It's probably down to Taylor, Peppers and Urlacher.
Or you could grow a set of morals.
Grow a set of morals? You mean crucify Merriman when it is very very likely that way more footballs players than we are willing to admit are using performance enhancers one way or the other.

You can accuse Merriman of being stupid for getting caught, but that is about it.

However, that is not what this thread is about. Jason Taylor has the better numbers and played the whole season, so he deserves it.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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Grow a set of morals? You mean crucify Merriman when it is very very likely that way more footballs players than we are willing to admit are using performance enhancers one way or the other.

You can accuse Merriman of being stupid for getting caught, but that is about it.
That covers my thoughts perfectly. I would bet all the 'freak' athletes are on something. They just haven't been caught. It's the nature of pro sports and it isn't going to go away.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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I'll take steroids, maybe I get to the NFL. :roll:
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:59 AM    (permalink
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i say no. 4 games out just doesnt cut it and the addition of steroids makes his chances worse. plus i think that JT is having a better season.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:06 AM    (permalink
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You have to admit, too, that there are some players who the the voters feel are more of a priority to receive an award than others. For example, in recent years, it's been fairly obvious who the winner of the Heisman trophy would be, and, as a result, the voters award the Maxwell Award to the player most likely to be the runner up for the Heisman. There's a priority to reward both of them.

I think that the voters are going to feel that it's likely that Merriman will win a Defensive Player of the Year award at some point in his career, probably even multiple times. Jason Taylor, meanwhile, is getting up there in age, and it's unlikely that he'll ever achieve this type of production for the rest of his career.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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Peppers
Taylor
Bailey

They're the only three who should really be considered. Pep's play has been marred by the fact that he's on the field way too much since our offense can't sustain a drive. The lack of holding calls has been absolutely ridiculous to boot.

Merriman is a steroid taking rushing weakside linebacker... He shouldn't be mentioned with the aforementioned three, he's not on their tier.
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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If he can lead the league in sacks after missing 4 games then how can he not win it? He is one of the 3 best defensive players in the game along with Urlacher and Peppers (bailey and lewis being 4th and 5th) and is having the best season of all five of those guys.
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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If he can lead the league in sacks after missing 4 games then how can he not win it? He is one of the 3 best defensive players in the game along with Urlacher and Peppers (bailey and lewis being 4th and 5th) and is having the best season of all five of those guys.
You are forgetting Jason Taylor who is having a better season. I highly doubt that the NFL will give an award to a substance-abuser in the year that he was suspended. It sends the wrong message.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Grow a set of morals? You mean crucify Merriman when it is very very likely that way more footballs players than we are willing to admit are using performance enhancers one way or the other.

You can accuse Merriman of being stupid for getting caught, but that is about it.
That covers my thoughts perfectly. I would bet all the 'freak' athletes are on something. They just haven't been caught. It's the nature of pro sports and it isn't going to go away.
So let's just roll over and condone it, is that what you're saying? Great...

Do you seriously realize what the ramafications of that will be? Younger generations in high school and college will see everyone's performances increase because of steroid use so they will have 1 of 2 choices.

1) Work hard, and get better the natural way, only to see someone with less talent but a better pharmacist get paid more. This person's natural abilities which would be elite on a level playing field are only noticed as average because he is not taking steroids. He gets neither the comparable numbers, the fame nor the money he would.

or

2) He sees everyone in professional sports taking steroids so he decides he has to level the playing field himself. At age 16 he starts using anabolic steroids not to truly give himself the edge, but to take away the edge that others have on him. He uses steroids through high school and college, gets drafted in the 1st round and has a Pro Bowl career. The longer this cycle continues, the more kids will see this and the younger the threshold will be to start using steroids. Do you have any idea the effect it would have on somone's body to start using steroids in their teenage years?

By giving Shawne Merriman the DPOY in the very same year he was caught and suspended for steroids, you are not only condoning steroid use, but you are rewarding it. Do you really want to do that?

To address your argument that "everyone else is doing it so why punish Merriman" I think it truly shows your age. I'm not proffessing to be a wise man, I'm only 19, but it's the same things that parents hear from their junior high and high school kids. "But Johnny's mom let's him do it!!!"

The fact of the matter is that Shawne Merriman was caught. Because we know he did it, it is imperetive that he be punished greatly for what he did. Anyone else who gets caught would receive the same punishment. But to not punish him merely because of suspicion (and likely true) that steroid use is rampant in the NFL is purely asinine. You have to punish the ones you catch. This is to set is precedence for others and to show that there should be no tolerance for steroids lest we have more kids who take Option #2. Should we have more Lyle Alzado's out there? People who die from brain cancer because of steroid use? Imagine the ramafications of there being hundreds if not thousands of kids taking Option #2. The negative side effects on those kids would be catastrophic. Jason Giambi also used HGH (allegedly) and he got a tumor (the was benign) when he was 33. If kids started using it while they were still in the early stages of life, just a year or two after puberty, the effects would be terrible.

Not just for the sake of the integrity of the sport now, but for the sake of future generations and keeping sports fun, it is imperetive that Shawne Merriman and any other football player, baseball player, track star or basketball player who is caught using steroids receive a hefty punishment.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Grow a set of morals? You mean crucify Merriman when it is very very likely that way more footballs players than we are willing to admit are using performance enhancers one way or the other.

You can accuse Merriman of being stupid for getting caught, but that is about it.
That covers my thoughts perfectly. I would bet all the 'freak' athletes are on something. They just haven't been caught. It's the nature of pro sports and it isn't going to go away.
So let's just roll over and condone it, is that what you're saying? Great...

Do you seriously realize what the ramafications of that will be? Younger generations in high school and college will see everyone's performances increase because of steroid use so they will have 1 of 2 choices.

1) Work hard, and get better the natural way, only to see someone with less talent but a better pharmacist get paid more. This person's natural abilities which would be elite on a level playing field are only noticed as average because he is not taking steroids. He gets neither the comparable numbers, the fame nor the money he would.

or

2) He sees everyone in professional sports taking steroids so he decides he has to level the playing field himself. At age 16 he starts using anabolic steroids not to truly give himself the edge, but to take away the edge that others have on him. He uses steroids through high school and college, gets drafted in the 1st round and has a Pro Bowl career. The longer this cycle continues, the more kids will see this and the younger the threshold will be to start using steroids. Do you have any idea the effect it would have on somone's body to start using steroids in their teenage years?

By giving Shawne Merriman the DPOY in the very same year he was caught and suspended for steroids, you are not only condoning steroid use, but you are rewarding it. Do you really want to do that?

To address your argument that "everyone else is doing it so why punish Merriman" I think it truly shows your age. I'm not proffessing to be a wise man, I'm only 19, but it's the same things that parents hear from their junior high and high school kids. "But Johnny's mom let's him do it!!!"

The fact of the matter is that Shawne Merriman was caught. Because we know he did it, it is imperetive that he be punished greatly for what he did. Anyone else who gets caught would receive the same punishment. But to not punish him merely because of suspicion (and likely true) that steroid use is rampant in the NFL is purely asinine. You have to punish the ones you catch. This is to set is precedence for others and to show that there should be no tolerance for steroids lest we have more kids who take Option #2. Should we have more Lyle Alzado's out there? People who die from brain cancer because of steroid use? Imagine the ramafications of there being hundreds if not thousands of kids taking Option #2. The negative side effects on those kids would be catastrophic. Jason Giambi also used HGH (allegedly) and he got a tumor (the was benign) when he was 33. If kids started using it while they were still in the early stages of life, just a year or two after puberty, the effects would be terrible.

Not just for the sake of the integrity of the sport now, but for the sake of future generations and keeping sports fun, it is imperetive that Shawne Merriman and any other football player, baseball player, track star or basketball player who is caught using steroids receive a hefty punishment.
Football, unlike baseball, doesn't have a character clause in their Hall of Fame balloting. That also carries over to voting for awards. Football writers and journalists are much more liberal than their baseball counterparts when it comes to character.

LT the First may not have gotten into the Football Hall of Fame if the baseball writers were applied. Paul Hourning probably would have never gotten into the HOF.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Football, unlike baseball, doesn't have a character clause in their Hall of Fame balloting. That also carries over to voting for awards. Football writers and journalists are much more liberal than their baseball counterparts when it comes to character.

LT the First may not have gotten into the Football Hall of Fame if the baseball writers were applied. Paul Hourning probably would have never gotten into the HOF.
But you still can't give someone an award if he cheated to "earn" it.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Don't condone it, but accept the reality of the situation. No one can accurately say who is on steroids and performance enhancers and who isn't. Say that Merriman isn't given the award, but Urlacher or Peppers are. Who is to say that those two aren't on anything? Urlacher is 6'4" 260-lbs and can run like linebackers much smaller than he is. Peppers is 6'6" 280-lbs and can move and run like a typical 3-4 rushbacker, except at 30-lbs larger. It's really easy to become paranoid and skeptical regarding pro sports.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Don't condone it, but accept the reality of the situation. No one can accurately say who is on steroids and performance enhancers and who isn't. Say that Merriman isn't given the award, but Urlacher or Peppers are. Who is to say that those two aren't on anything? Urlacher is 6'4" 260-lbs and can run like linebackers much smaller than he is. Peppers is 6'6" 280-lbs and can move and run like a typical 3-4 rushbacker, except at 30-lbs larger. It's really easy to become paranoid and skeptical regarding pro sports.
does it matter? one was PROVEN, the others are ASSUMPTIONS.

i would imagine that NIP would say the same thing about peppers if he'd been caught. it's absolutely silly to say that since everyone in the NFL is on something even though 99% of them have never tested positive, it doesn't matter and shouldn't apply to someone who was caught red-handed.

that's akin to saying that, since i can assume that 99% of all people have taken something that wasn't theirs, that those convicted of grand theft auto shouldn't really be listed as felons anymore.
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