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Old 01-16-2008, 04:15 PM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
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Tampa Bay - Tanard Jackson. Gives us a hard hitting duo of good, young safeties for the first time ever.

New Orleans - Marques Colston. I thought about Brown because we really need a LT but this is just too perfect a fit. Smith and Colston would put Smith and Muhammed to shame

Atlanta - John Abraham. Honestly I think he may be one the most underrated star players in the NFL. Then again, maybe he's too injury prone to be considered a star. Either way, when healthy, he's a beast. Top DE in the league type beast. He solves the Rucker retirement problem and solidifies a DLine in flux with Peppers sucking, Kemo a JAG and Jenkins on his way out
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Panthers-Steve Smith
Saints-Drew Brees
Bucs-Barrett Ruud
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Panthers - Steve Smith
Falcons - DeAngelo Hall
Bucs - Tanard Jackson
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Going to go against the grain..and go with some more under the radar guys. (to the casual non NFC South followers)

Falcons - Michael Boley: (LB) would give us a legitimate playmaker at the LB spot with the ability to play both ways and make the sideline to sideline tackles, and also give us solid pass coverage. I would try to play him at MIKE but I'm iffy on the fit there.. if not I would try to move Fujita inside, and keep Boley at the SAM.

Buccaneers - Jovan Haye: (DT) May seem like an odd pick but I wouldn't underestimate Haye's impact on the Buc's D-line this season. He's a quick penetrating UT with a great motor, who can really disrupt the Interior blocking which could open up our Edge rushers more and we really need some more talent at DT.

Panthers- Richard Marshall: (CB) A young and rising Corner, he's had some struggles but still manages to shine, everyone knows we desperately have a need at Cornerback and I really like Marshall's potential and I think he's a good fit for our Man-coverage scheme.

actually I do believe that adding those players could go a long way toward shoring up this Defense.
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Old 01-18-2008, 06:47 AM    (permalink
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He won't have another sub-5 sack performance for a while, but he's just not the same athlete he was when he first entered the league. FYI...28-29 is usually considered the end of a football player's prime.
I don't know where you get that. I think 30 is when fans start to mention age, and team's are less likely to throw big contracts at them. But there's plenty of Strahans, Derrick Brooks, TOs, Brett Favres, Charles Woodsons, Ray Lewis that play great well into their 30s. There's a stigma about 30, but I don't think the play drops off near anywhere near where it's made out to be. I think the prime goes a little into the 30s really.

It's easy for Steve Smith and Drew Brees from their respective teams. Falcons I just don't know. Maybe Rod Coleman for the short term, as Haye is more of a situational guy who was productive. Alge Crumpler maybe. Roddy White, there we go.

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Old 01-18-2008, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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I don't know where you get that. I think 30 is when fans start to mention age, and team's are less likely to throw big contracts at them. But there's plenty of Strahans, Derrick Brooks, TOs, Brett Favres, Charles Woodsons, Ray Lewis that play great well into their 30s. There's a stigma about 30, but I don't think the play drops off near anywhere near where it's made out to be. I think the prime goes a little into the 30s really.

It's easy for Steve Smith and Drew Brees from their respective teams. Falcons I just don't know. Maybe Rod Coleman for the short term, as Haye is more of a situational guy who was productive. Alge Crumpler maybe. Roddy White, there we go.
I think the stigma on '30' is a purely historical term. As technology progresses, injury management improves, dieting improves and training methods improve, athletes are able to compete in their primes into their early or sometimes even late 30's.
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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I don't know where you get that. I think 30 is when fans start to mention age, and team's are less likely to throw big contracts at them. But there's plenty of Strahans, Derrick Brooks, TOs, Brett Favres, Charles Woodsons, Ray Lewis that play great well into their 30s. There's a stigma about 30, but I don't think the play drops off near anywhere near where it's made out to be. I think the prime goes a little into the 30s really.

It's easy for Steve Smith and Drew Brees from their respective teams. Falcons I just don't know. Maybe Rod Coleman for the short term, as Haye is more of a situational guy who was productive. Alge Crumpler maybe. Roddy White, there we go.
Woodson, Lewis and Brooks all saw their play fall off as they passed 30. They're still producing because they have talent, otherwise they would've retired already. Peppers will always be a solid LDE, but I think he's lost some of the burst and athleticism that made him a superstar in his first 3-4 years as a professional. The prime is when athletes play their best football. Only QBs, OL & maybe DTs consistently play their best football into their early 30s. A handful of exceptional players are the exception, not the trend.

I'm not buying the Haye argument. He doesn't get enough credit for the improvement of our defense. He put on a lot of pressure rushing his gap and was always involved when we made a big sack. He has a great motor and gave solid effort against the run despite a lack of size. I think he needs to work on keeping his stamina and drive at the end of drives, when he loses focus and gets driven back off the snap. I think he and Peterson are a solid 1-2 punch for the future.

Do we really need 2 WRs from other teams? I like White but we do have Clayton and Stovall, both of whom have shown promise this year, as well as Galloway and Hilliard who are yet to retire. I'd go with Chris Houston as a physical, young corner, which frees up a draft pick for luxuries like HB, C, etc.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Woodson, Lewis and Brooks all saw their play fall off as they passed 30. They're still producing because they have talent, otherwise they would've retired already. Peppers will always be a solid LDE, but I think he's lost some of the burst and athleticism that made him a superstar in his first 3-4 years as a professional. The prime is when athletes play their best football. Only QBs, OL & maybe DTs consistently play their best football into their early 30s. A handful of exceptional players are the exception, not the trend.
Woodson is 31 (why would he retire already?) and playing as good as any CB in the NFL not named Champ Bailey. I don't think his play has fallen off at all from 3 years or so ago (your suggested end of his prime). He might even be playing better. Lewis and Brooks fell off in their MID 30s. Simeon Rice was as good as he ever was in 2005, 14 sacks in 15 games and an absolute terror in our playoff game. The main reason our defense was so good and we made the playoffs in the first place. How is that not considered to be in his prime?

This isn't a "handful of guys", it's most of them. Who are all the big time players that dropped off right after they turned 30?

How can you bring Peppers into the argument? He's not the same player because something is missing. Either he just lost it (ala Clayton), or he was juiced, or something. But I have no clue how you can make the connection of his play dropping off and his age. Thats ridiculous.

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I'm not buying the Haye argument. He doesn't get enough credit for the improvement of our defense. He put on a lot of pressure rushing his gap and was always involved when we made a big sack. He has a great motor and gave solid effort against the run despite a lack of size. I think he needs to work on keeping his stamina and drive at the end of drives, when he loses focus and gets driven back off the snap. I think he and Peterson are a solid 1-2 punch for the future.
I'm giving him plenty of credit, I just don't think he's an every down lineman. He doesn't command doubles. His pressure disappeared in our playoff game.

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Do we really need 2 WRs from other teams? I like White but we do have Clayton and Stovall, both of whom have shown promise this year, as well as Galloway and Hilliard who are yet to retire. I'd go with Chris Houston as a physical, young corner, which frees up a draft pick for luxuries like HB, C, etc.
I meant White/Smith as just an either/or option. I don't really know if I'd take both. But Clayton and Stovall definitely wouldn't stop me from anything.

As much as you (and others) bash guys like Trueblood and Sears, at least they play solid and are something you can hang your hat on. Clayton has done nothing but suck with the exception of a few DECENT games the past 3 seasons and people continue to make excuses for him.
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Old 01-19-2008, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Falcons

New Orlean Saints- Drew Brees
Carolina Panthers- Jon Beason
Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Davin Joseph

Saints was easy although Brown or the OG would be nice.

Panthers I like Beason a lot. Would replace Brooking. Peppers was second but coming off a down year. Jamaal Anderson is fat (with potential) so it would be an upgrade.

Buccaneers I like Tanard Jackson or Joseph. Joseph would be great paired inside with Blalock.

But we still would need
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Falcons Michael Boley would replace Brooks better overall game and fit then June who gets alot of tackles after the first five yards

Panthers Chris Gamble good player with out the attitude of Hall

Saints Jammal Brown would help solidify the Bucs offensive line for years to come
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Falcons-D. Hall-We need a shut down corner err I mean a corner.

Panthers-Steve Smith-We only have 2 WR's under contract right now, Colston (who is getting a FAT extension) and Meachem (who has never seen the field yet).

Bucs-Gaines Adams- I thought about Rudd but they run a Cover-2 and we run Man-to-Man so I feel Adams is a better fit. We could put Grant on the inside or keep Adams if we chose not to resign Smith.
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Old 01-20-2008, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Woodson is 31 (why would he retire already?) and playing as good as any CB in the NFL not named Champ Bailey. I don't think his play has fallen off at all from 3 years or so ago (your suggested end of his prime). He might even be playing better. Lewis and Brooks fell off in their MID 30s. Simeon Rice was as good as he ever was in 2005, 14 sacks in 15 games and an absolute terror in our playoff game. The main reason our defense was so good and we made the playoffs in the first place. How is that not considered to be in his prime?

This isn't a "handful of guys", it's most of them. Who are all the big time players that dropped off right after they turned 30?

How can you bring Peppers into the argument? He's not the same player because something is missing. Either he just lost it (ala Clayton), or he was juiced, or something. But I have no clue how you can make the connection of his play dropping off and his age. Thats ridiculous.



I'm giving him plenty of credit, I just don't think he's an every down lineman. He doesn't command doubles. His pressure disappeared in our playoff game.



I meant White/Smith as just an either/or option. I don't really know if I'd take both. But Clayton and Stovall definitely wouldn't stop me from anything.

As much as you (and others) bash guys like Trueblood and Sears, at least they play solid and are something you can hang your hat on. Clayton has done nothing but suck with the exception of a few DECENT games the past 3 seasons and people continue to make excuses for him.
Woodson has lost his athleticism. He has rejuvenated himself in a press defense, but he looks like a completely different player from his Wolverines and Raiders days. Saying he's one of the top corners in the league is a huge overstatement.

Once again, you've brought up a select few examples of NFL superstars that still have success in their early 30s. The reality is that most NFL players are out of the league by the time they turn 27-28. Runningbacks and cornerbacks start declining before they turn 30, as RBs get banged up and CBs lose speed (their game). There will always be ageless players like Joey Galloway and Brett Favre, but the reality is that very few players play their best football past 29. That is why every media source I've seen covering the NFL has projected the NFL prime at 25-28. That is why teams only pay big money for FAs under 29, and why CBS sportsline limits their FA rankings to those 28 and under.

Simeon Rice was 31 in 2005. It's no coincidence that he was cut by what...3 teams this year and he's now retired. He got hit by the injury bug, like most players over 30, and lost his explosiveness. There are other examples of Bucs who were cut after they turned 30...Warren Sapp, John Lynch, Shelton Quarles. Brian Kelly might be the next.

Peppers saw his play drop off for one reason or the other. It may not have to do with his age, but it is still proof of how it is difficult to sustain success in the NFL for a number of years. Players lose athleticism, interest, they become injured, etc. All factors for why the shelf life is short and the prime is young.

Your argument for Haye is pathetic. He doesn't command doubles? In case you've forgotten, we run a one-gap Tampa 2 defense. Our under tackle is not supposed to shut down the interior like Albert Haynesworth...he's supposed to control his gap and penetrate. I think Haye has done fine in that department, especially for his first year starting in our defense. Of course he didn't get pressure against the Giants...never in my life have I seen a defensive tackle get pressure against 3-step drops and quick throws. Our whole line didn't get pressure because our underneath coverage decided to go for a power nap.

I haven't bashed Sears once since the start of the season. I do make excuses for Clayton and Stovall because I see their talent and potential. What have they done wrong this season, anyway? Clayton has dropped a few tough passes in traffic, that's it. Stovall and Clayton are deadly on deep routes across the middle, but all Gruden does is use them on slants. He also failed to find ways to get Galloway the ball late in the season. Our offense has no creativity and Gruden recycles the same deep passing plays. I'm sick of the dink-and-dunk and how it inhibits our receivers' production and wastes their talents. In my Brees' shotgun offense, Clayton and Stovall would be terrific weapons.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Tampa Bay - Barrett Ruud - guy I wanted when he came out but Falcons weren't in a position to really draft him...but I'd love to wave bye bye to Brooking and insert this kid in next to Boley.

Carolina - Deangelo Williams - Another guy I really wanted the Falcons to pick up and has all the tools to be the feature back alongside Norwood...that'd be one great backfield to watch.

New Orleans - Jammaal Brown - Falcons need help on the offensive line, this kid gives us something to build with and helps protect whoever we get back at the QB spot.
Couldn't of said it better myself.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Woodson has lost his athleticism. He has rejuvenated himself in a press defense, but he looks like a completely different player from his Wolverines and Raiders days. Saying he's one of the top corners in the league is a huge overstatement.
I disagree that he looks like a completely different player.

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Once again, you've brought up a select few examples of NFL superstars that still have success in their early 30s. The reality is that most NFL players are out of the league by the time they turn 27-28. Runningbacks and cornerbacks start declining before they turn 30, as RBs get banged up and CBs lose speed (their game).
RBs, who have the shortest career and take the worst pounding of any position? Convenient choice.

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There will always be ageless players like Joey Galloway and Brett Favre, but the reality is that very few players play their best football past 29.
I'm still asking who just drops off at 30? Players might not be at their athletic peak into their 30s, but they aren't judged on their athleticism, but rather their ability to play the game.

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That is why every media source I've seen covering the NFL has projected the NFL prime at 25-28. That is why teams only pay big money for FAs under 29, and why CBS sportsline limits their FA rankings to those 28 and under.
I'm pointing out what I think is a misconception, then you come back with things that perpetuate it to begin with? Sportsline rankings? Thats TERRIBLE, yet classic etk. NFL teams also trade away proven, productive players for pennies on the dollar (Moss, Corey Dillon, Marshall Faulk) then give $60 mil to an unproved player.

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Simeon Rice was 31 in 2005. It's no coincidence that he was cut by what...3 teams this year and he's now retired. He got hit by the injury bug, like most players over 30, and lost his explosiveness. There are other examples of Bucs who were cut after they turned 30...Warren Sapp, John Lynch, Shelton Quarles. Brian Kelly might be the next.
Rice was 31 when he was as good as ever, why is that not his prime to you? We cut Lynch and he played just as good as ever with the Broncos. Again, you're treating NFL front offices like they are infallible. They aren't. Quarles was THIRTY FIVE. We're not even having the same conversation now.

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Peppers saw his play drop off for one reason or the other. It may not have to do with his age, but it is still proof of how it is difficult to sustain success in the NFL for a number of years. Players lose athleticism, interest, they become injured, etc. All factors for why the shelf life is short and the prime is young.
I'm not saying guys aren't in their prime when they are young, but how far does that go? Players turn 30 and people get crazy about the number. Is there a decline in the future? Of course! But how far? Right as they turn 30? I don't think so. I think the consensus was 30 was a sign that they were approaching the point where their skills would decline, and the association became so close that people started thinking of 30 as old and past the prime. But I think if we've got a great player at 30, we can expect a few more great years out of him.

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Your argument for Haye is pathetic. He doesn't command doubles? In case you've forgotten, we run a one-gap Tampa 2 defense. Our under tackle is not supposed to shut down the interior like Albert Haynesworth...he's supposed to control his gap and penetrate.
Right, right. Only we're talking about RUSHING THE QB. Yeah, it would help if we had a UT that commanded double teams and opened up others for 1-on-1s. Like Warren Sapp did for literally all 9 seasons. Even though our system doesn't allow it. Pathetic.

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I think Haye has done fine in that department, especially for his first year starting in our defense. Of course he didn't get pressure against the Giants...never in my life have I seen a defensive tackle get pressure against 3-step drops and quick throws. Our whole line didn't get pressure because our underneath coverage decided to go for a power nap.
While I agree that our coverage had some to do with that, Gaines got some good pressure. Carter got a little pressure. If Gaines who is known for his wide angles can get a sack and another couples of hurries with his 10 yard route to the QB, Haye should be able to as well having to only go 4 yards upfield.

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I haven't bashed Sears once since the start of the season.
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Congratulations to Arron Sears for proving me right. His suckage emanated when he whiffed at Brian Young, waving his arms like a matador and allowing him a free run at Garcia.
Proving you right or you being full of crap?

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I do make excuses for Clayton and Stovall because I see their talent and potential. What have they done wrong this season, anyway? Clayton has dropped a few tough passes in traffic, that's it. Stovall and Clayton are deadly on deep routes across the middle, but all Gruden does is use them on slants. He also failed to find ways to get Galloway the ball late in the season. Our offense has no creativity and Gruden recycles the same deep passing plays. I'm sick of the dink-and-dunk and how it inhibits our receivers' production and wastes their talents. In my Brees' shotgun offense, Clayton and Stovall would be terrific weapons.
Clayton and Stovall's play and playing time cement what they have done wrong. Ike can be productive, reliable, always see the field. Stovall has yet to earn consistent PT. Clayton had one or two decent games. Not great, good, or even solid. Straight mediocre. Two years with a disappearing act, and this one with "flashes of average". Clayton also misjudged that catch in SF where he stepped out of the back of the endzone. Big mistake.

Not to mention Clayton and Stovall are BIG, SLOW, PHYSICAL, POSSESSION WRs. They should benefit MORE from a dink and dunk typical WCO than going downfield with their below average speed.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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Just to say..Jammal Brown is severely overrated. He commits more penalties than anyone on our offense.
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I disagree that he looks like a completely different player.



RBs, who have the shortest career and take the worst pounding of any position? Convenient choice.



I'm still asking who just drops off at 30? Players might not be at their athletic peak into their 30s, but they aren't judged on their athleticism, but rather their ability to play the game.



I'm pointing out what I think is a misconception, then you come back with things that perpetuate it to begin with? Sportsline rankings? Thats TERRIBLE, yet classic etk. NFL teams also trade away proven, productive players for pennies on the dollar (Moss, Corey Dillon, Marshall Faulk) then give $60 mil to an unproved player.



Rice was 31 when he was as good as ever, why is that not his prime to you? We cut Lynch and he played just as good as ever with the Broncos. Again, you're treating NFL front offices like they are infallible. They aren't. Quarles was THIRTY FIVE. We're not even having the same conversation now.



I'm not saying guys aren't in their prime when they are young, but how far does that go? Players turn 30 and people get crazy about the number. Is there a decline in the future? Of course! But how far? Right as they turn 30? I don't think so. I think the consensus was 30 was a sign that they were approaching the point where their skills would decline, and the association became so close that people started thinking of 30 as old and past the prime. But I think if we've got a great player at 30, we can expect a few more great years out of him.



Right, right. Only we're talking about RUSHING THE QB. Yeah, it would help if we had a UT that commanded double teams and opened up others for 1-on-1s. Like Warren Sapp did for literally all 9 seasons. Even though our system doesn't allow it. Pathetic.



While I agree that our coverage had some to do with that, Gaines got some good pressure. Carter got a little pressure. If Gaines who is known for his wide angles can get a sack and another couples of hurries with his 10 yard route to the QB, Haye should be able to as well having to only go 4 yards upfield.





Proving you right or you being full of crap?



Clayton and Stovall's play and playing time cement what they have done wrong. Ike can be productive, reliable, always see the field. Stovall has yet to earn consistent PT. Clayton had one or two decent games. Not great, good, or even solid. Straight mediocre. Two years with a disappearing act, and this one with "flashes of average". Clayton also misjudged that catch in SF where he stepped out of the back of the endzone. Big mistake.

Not to mention Clayton and Stovall are BIG, SLOW, PHYSICAL, POSSESSION WRs. They should benefit MORE from a dink and dunk typical WCO than going downfield with their below average speed.
That's exactly what I've been saying this whole time. Players have a drop off in their athleticism as they age and their bodies wear-and-tear from the game. They have improved in other areas of football but they are no longer in their athletic prime when they cross 30 (about). How many of our older Bucs got injured or hurt this season? Pretty much all of them, except for the iron man Derrick Brooks. All of our rookies stayed completely healthy until week 17, when Sears got hurt, and then Tanard got hurt in the playoffs. I don't think that's a coincidence.

So you thing every team just scraps old players and shells out huge amounts of dough for unproven ones for no reason? It's all just a misconception? I don't think every NFL owner is that stupid with that much money on the line. According to you, every NFL owner is not concerned about what's best for their money and product, all over a little misconception. Older players no longer become worth their high salaries as they hit their twilights. Players who are about to hit their prime are worth more.

Rice hit the end of his prime at 31. He was one of the hardest working players the league has ever witnessed. He tirelessly worked on his speed and explosiveness but eventually his age caught up to him despite those efforts. Derrick Brooks is a fortunate exception. I disagree on Lynch. He never impressed me on the Broncos, and his athleticism decreased in every area. He still made the Pro Bowl because he is a big name and a fan favorite. He was a solid, reliable player, but he wasn't the star he was in his younger days in Tampa. That's what I call a decline for a player who's past his prime.

Warren Sapp is one of the best players of all time at his position. Haye is in his first year as a starter and managed to rush the passer better than any other DT since Sapp left. Way to misconstrue my words as well. Taking up 2-gaps isn't a requirement in our system, but of course we allow it. Hovan does this quite often, but he's our Nose. Haye is expected to control his gap and rush the passer, which I think he did admirably. He was probably our most consistent pass rusher over the course of the season, but you want to replace him when we have other more pressing needs.

We got a solid player in that age range in Luke Petitgout. He got injured right at the start of the season.

Congratulations, I bashed Sears over one play at the start of the season. I've done nothing but praise him since, even when he struggled at the end of the season.

I missed the SF game...strangely enough I was in Florida and didn't get the Bucs there. I have an image of Clayton hustling as our go-to receiver at the end of the season. He will never return to his rookie form, but I think he has the same passion he once had and the skill to be a solid option.

Clayton and Stovall might be big and physical, but neither of them are slow. Stovall is our 2nd fastest receiver and he showed his athleticism covering punts. I think he could be a great deep threat with his size and speed, similar to Plaxico Burress. Clayton is a little less athletic overall, but he showed good burst after the catch. He's not a burner, but he has above-average straight line speed. He's definitely not slow. He was our main reverse guy as well, but none of them were successful as they were poorly scripted, executed, and blocked.
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Just to say..Jammal Brown is severely overrated. He commits more penalties than anyone on our offense.
He's not THAT overrated. Considering he's just in his second year of playing LT after being All-Pro last year at his first year at LT.. he'll be fine. Still one of the best young o-linemen in the league. With that said, Jahri Evans is our best offensive linemen. He just mauls opponents.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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He's not THAT overrated. Considering he's just in his second year of playing LT after being All-Pro last year at his first year at LT.. he'll be fine. Still one of the best young o-linemen in the league. With that said, Jahri Evans is our best offensive linemen. He just mauls opponents.
I do agree with this.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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That's exactly what I've been saying this whole time. Players have a drop off in their athleticism as they age and their bodies wear-and-tear from the game. They have improved in other areas of football but they are no longer in their athletic prime when they cross 30 (about).
No, we don't agree. I think guys at 30 are still as sharp as they were at their mid-late 20s. I think when they go to the deeper parts of their 30s, about 32, 33 or 34 is when they have a big dropoff. Depending on how much of a pounding they've taken. Good RBs a little early, good TEs a little late, and so on.

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So you thing every team just scraps old players and shells out huge amounts of dough for unproven ones for no reason? It's all just a misconception?
I think it has to do with the RISK of an older player not just when they sign but going forward. Not signing a 30 year old to an $80 million contract isn't saying the guy has past his prime or isn't as good as he was last year, it's saying they don't want to invest that much into a guy for that amount of time. Taking what they've assessed and saying that 30 is past their prime when the league is chock full of guys playing at a high level at that age and older, yeah I am saying thats a misconception.

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I don't think every NFL owner is that stupid with that much money on the line. According to you, every NFL owner is not concerned about what's best for their money and product, all over a little misconception. Older players no longer become worth their high salaries as they hit their twilights. Players who are about to hit their prime are worth more.
Now you're just taking my stance and going wherever you want with it. Is it that much to ask to actually argue what I'm saying, and not what I'm not saying?

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Rice hit the end of his prime at 31. He was one of the hardest working players the league has ever witnessed. He tirelessly worked on his speed and explosiveness but eventually his age caught up to him despite those efforts. Derrick Brooks is a fortunate exception. I disagree on Lynch. He never impressed me on the Broncos, and his athleticism decreased in every area. He still made the Pro Bowl because he is a big name and a fan favorite. He was a solid, reliable player, but he wasn't the star he was in his younger days in Tampa. That's what I call a decline for a player who's past his prime.
I disagree with Rice's work ethic. It was good, but it wasn't among the best.

Lynch was exactly what he was in Tampa. Great in run support, good blitzing, plainly average in pass coverage. Story of his career. His first two seasons in Denver were right one par with his play in Tampa. Which is why people hated letting him go and keeping Phillips who he vastly outplayed those seasons. Last season and this season, he fell off.

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Warren Sapp is one of the best players of all time at his position. Haye is in his first year as a starter and managed to rush the passer better than any other DT since Sapp left.
No argument there, Sapp was great. But we can't find a Tommie Harris, Amobi Okoye, or Rod Coleman?

Booger McFarland and Ellis Wyms aren't that hard to top when it comes to rushing the passer.

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Way to misconstrue my words as well. Taking up 2-gaps isn't a requirement in our system, but of course we allow it. Hovan does this quite often, but he's our Nose. Haye is expected to control his gap and rush the passer, which I think he did admirably. He was probably our most consistent pass rusher over the course of the season, but you want to replace him when we have other more pressing needs.
You keep missing this and it's not hard to get at all. No one even mentioned Hovan. This is about Haye taking up two blockers consistently when he's RUSHING THE PASSER. That has nothing to do with the type of system we run, it's entirely predicated on who the other team's coordinator thinks the line should put their extra lineman in pass pro. Where are you getting lost at?

I never said make it top priority to replace him, but if we can get someone who holds up better vs. the run and can command more attention rushing the passer, go for it.

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We got a solid player in that age range in Luke Petitgout. He got injured right at the start of the season.
He got injured when John Wade got pushed into the back of his knee. Yeah, thats an AGE-related injury for ya. Plus, Petitgout has been a banged up player for some time. Caddy's injury wasn't caused by anyone else but him, and he's the younger guy that went down in that game.

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Congratulations, I bashed Sears over one play at the start of the season. I've done nothing but praise him since, even when he struggled at the end of the season.

I missed the SF game...strangely enough I was in Florida and didn't get the Bucs there. I have an image of Clayton hustling as our go-to receiver at the end of the season. He will never return to his rookie form, but I think he has the same passion he once had and the skill to be a solid option.
I think the player Clayton is now is one that is a dime a dozen around the league.

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Clayton and Stovall might be big and physical, but neither of them are slow. Stovall is our 2nd fastest receiver and he showed his athleticism covering punts. I think he could be a great deep threat with his size and speed, similar to Plaxico Burress. Clayton is a little less athletic overall, but he showed good burst after the catch. He's not a burner, but he has above-average straight line speed. He's definitely not slow. He was our main reverse guy as well, but none of them were successful as they were poorly scripted, executed, and blocked.
Our receivers are the slowest group maybe in the entire NFL. Ike is slow. Clayton is slow. Stovall is slow. Warren is a tortoise. Clayton has well below average straight line speed. Our reverses always stunk with Clayton! That was one of the main complaints about the playcalling this season, using a slow WR on a reverse is one of the worst ideas I've seen this season.
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Old 01-21-2008, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Whatever, this is pointless. I disagree with basically every statement you just made, especially the ones concerning our current and former players. You make excuses for the older players and bash the younger ones harshly. I don't really understand your motives. If Maurice Stovall is slow, what does that make 80% of the WRs in the league? Whatever.

The only thing I agree with you on is that Gruden's playcalling is brutal and he needs to realize it's not the 80's anymore.
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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Whatever, this is pointless. I disagree with basically every statement you just made, especially the ones concerning our current and former players.
Point it out or just don't post, because that is annoying as hell.

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You make excuses for the older players and bash the younger ones harshly. I don't really understand your motives.
Who did I make excuses for? Petitgout? He got rolled up on! Lynch? What excuse? I called him the same player. I don't bash any of the young players who play well. I said we could use an upgrade for Haye. I didn't say it was priority 1. Clayton and Stovall haven't done anything in their collective past 5 seasons. Sure, I'd love for Stovall to break out next year and I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance to. But I'm not going to call him a good player until he plays well. Clayton played two or three mediocre games. If anyone is making excuses, it's you for these WRs. Plain and simple.

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If Maurice Stovall is slow, what does that make 80% of the WRs in the league? Whatever.
You are continually arguing the great speed of big, physical possession WRs and arguably the slowest group of WRs in the NFL. Our biggest problem on offense, by the entire consensus of our fans, is that we have no speed at WR past Galloway. How in the world are you arguing that these guys have good speed? Make one point on them having good speed and I will never post here again.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Where have you pointed out that Stovall doesn't have good speed? All you say is we have big, slow receivers. Where's your proof? Galloway is one of the fastest in the league. Ike is slow. Clayton improved his speed this year and looked a lot faster. He's not a burner, but he's above-average in that department. Stovall is anything but slow. Every draft report and magazine I've seen has said that he's a deep threat, he has good speed, and he proved it on the field. He was always our first guy down on the punt team and he was one of the best gunners in the league because of it. If he played more on offense he would've shown his speed there too. He and Clayton were both kick returners at one point, and Ike was our punt returner. If these guys were the slowest players in the league...why were they so prominent on special teams, which is basically geared for speed and athleticism. Our only other receiver was Michael Spurlock, who looked slow as hell as our kick returner. We have one lighting-fast receiver, one slow receiver, and 3 with good speed. How do we have the slowest bunch in the league? They all look slow on offensebecause Gruden doesn't use them on anything but slants and curls, and Clayton's reverses were never well executed.

I'm not talking out of my ass here. I saw these guys up close against the Panthers. I saw Clayton running in the pre-game, and he looked like the fastest guy out there. I saw on him running posts and ins and he looked very fluid. If we used him more on those kinds of plays he would be effective.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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New Orleans - Drew Brees
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Consider the Falcons offense fixed...
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