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Old 01-22-2008, 08:08 PM    (permalink
Join Date: Jun 2005
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dbtb135 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.

Originally Posted by etk View Post
Where have you pointed out that Stovall doesn't have good speed? All you say is we have big, slow receivers. Where's your proof?
Everything he's shown, our UNDOUBTED need of speed at WR past Joey. He's a big, bulky WR who everyone called a possession WR coming into the draft. He didn't run any better than a little below average. Wouldn't that be your first clue? A guy like Colston who is big, but not known as much as a possession WR, ran better than him, gets more separation than him (using his speed, cuts rather than his SIZE-Stovall). Just because they are big guys doesn't mean they are slow, thats not any correlation I made. But the fact that he has never shown what anyone could consider good speed. Outside of ALL that, how is he speedy until proven otherwise? Thats ridiculous.

Originally Posted by etk View Post
Galloway is one of the fastest in the league. Ike is slow. Clayton improved his speed this year and looked a lot faster. He's not a burner, but he's above-average in that department.
Joey is incredibly fast, but that takes nothing away from the other WRs. You can have Brandon Jacobs, Darren Sproles, and Garrett Wolfe on the same team and it's not that they look small in comparison, but that they ARE small. Same with Joey and the other WRs when it comes to speed. I'm not saying our WRs all have to be Joey Galloway fast, but they aren't anywhere close. They have adequate speed at best. Clayton, like Stovall, never gets separation. He hasn't looked anywhere near fast since he could actually play in 04.

Originally Posted by etk View Post
Stovall is anything but slow. Every draft report and magazine I've seen has said that he's a deep threat, he has good speed, and he proved it on the field. He was always our first guy down on the punt team and he was one of the best gunners in the league because of it.
He WAS a deep threat at ND. Their line gave him plenty of time to get down the field and he used his SIZE to make the catch. Plenty of other WRs have been the same in college only to have their speed and separation ability questioned at the pro level. I'm sure Clayton would make a good gunner too, but his size and physicality go a long way there. Punts take longer to develop than passing plays.

Originally Posted by etk View Post
If he played more on offense he would've shown his speed there too. He and Clayton were both kick returners at one point, and Ike was our punt returner. If these guys were the slowest players in the league...why were they so prominent on special teams, which is basically geared for speed and athleticism.
They were poor returners is the answer. Mark Jones was great for us. Pittman was much better than Clayton (who wasn't terrible), and miles better Stovall. And Pittman, while having solid speed, is no burner. Yet he looked like one in comparison. Ike was there for his sure hands, and our team has been CONSTANTLY criticized having such a slow guy back there. Although, P-Buc has great speed and always fair caught the ball.

The thing I find absolutely mind-boggling is that you use these things as a REASON WHY they have good speed. The reverses with Clayton were some of the most highly criticized and downright stupid playcalls of Gruden's time here. They weren't particularly successful at all. Ike returning punts was highly criticized, since we didn't have anyone capable past recycled Torrie Cox and Mark Jones (who finally figured it out before going down). He wasn't successful. Yet you use these instances to prop up their speed, when our entire fanbase is complaining about their lack or speed and the fact that these plays haven't been successful by and large. They must have speed if they are calling reverses and returning with them. Assumptions get you nowhere.

Originally Posted by etk View Post
Our only other receiver was Michael Spurlock, who looked slow as hell as our kick returner. We have one lighting-fast receiver, one slow receiver, and 3 with good speed. How do we have the slowest bunch in the league? They all look slow on offensebecause Gruden doesn't use them on anything but slants and curls, and Clayton's reverses were never well executed.
Yeah, the problem with Clayton's reverses are that they aren't well executed. Other teams use Devery Henderson or Randy Moss or Antwan Randle El or Steve Smith. Some speedster on reverses. We use a WR who only one man on the face of the earth could pass as fast. That probably has something to do with it.

I've seen Clayton try a couple of double moves, hitch-and-go, and it wasn't a pretty sight.

Originally Posted by etk View Post
I'm not talking out of my ass here. I saw these guys up close against the Panthers. I saw Clayton running in the pre-game, and he looked like the fastest guy out there. I saw on him running posts and ins and he looked very fluid. If we used him more on those kinds of plays he would be effective.
Why don't we just post a poll, and get some objective opinions on this?
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