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Old 12-26-2006, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
i find it interesting that the arguments for taylor boil down to "he has some great stats and did some big things for his team". this is funny because you could literally, in every one of those statements, replace jason taylor with champ bailey and insert the relevant stats. i don't believe you can make any obvious distinction between the two.
You really can't, which is probably why Champ will win because his team is going to the playoffs and Miami is under .500.
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
i find it interesting that the arguments for taylor boil down to "he has some great stats and did some big things for his team". this is funny because you could literally, in every one of those statements, replace jason taylor with champ bailey and insert the relevant stats. i don't believe you can make any obvious distinction between the two.
You really can't, which is probably why Champ will win because his team is going to the playoffs and Miami is under .500.
I hate how its judged on how well the team was. It should be on how well the unit that the player plays for is. ie. Offense or Defense. Which, Miami is 3rd on Defense, with a lot of credit given to Taylor.
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Old 12-26-2006, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
i find it interesting that the arguments for taylor boil down to "he has some great stats and did some big things for his team". this is funny because you could literally, in every one of those statements, replace jason taylor with champ bailey and insert the relevant stats. i don't believe you can make any obvious distinction between the two.
You really can't, which is probably why Champ will win because his team is going to the playoffs and Miami is under .500.
I hate how its judged on how well the team was. It should be on how well the unit that the player plays for is. ie. Offense or Defense. Which, Miami is 3rd on Defense, with a lot of credit given to Taylor.
by the same token, how can you blame bailey for the play of darrent williams, nick ferguson, john lynch and a defensive line that hasn't seen the backfield in 8 years?

i'm not arguing that for champ, but i don't think you can pick out any one individual piece. champ's play on our defense has been utterly amazing. just like taylor's has been.

in all honesty, this is one of the few times i wouldn't mind a split award.
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Old 12-28-2006, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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they should just be co-dpoy. simple as that, its too close.
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Old 12-28-2006, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Wait. Why are people saying Champ will most likely win it? Hasn't it been between Taylor and Merriman?

But by all accounts, Champ should win it for his ability to lock down an entire side of the field, as well as helping out in run support and all that. Plus, he had an interception every five times he was thrown at. That's absolutely ridiculous. An interception every 25 times you're thrown at isn't bad. Definitely should be his.

However, since I really don't think they'll give him his due, I think it should go to Jason Taylor. He did it all this year. Just ridiculous stats, and he was a huge reason why Miami was even as good as they were.

But really, so long as Merriman doesn't win it, I don't care. Brian Dawkins could win it for that matter, but not Merriman.
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Old 12-28-2006, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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On nflnetwork some big fat pundit was saying what I had mentioned in the Jason Taylor/Merriman thread that JT was campaigning for DPOY. I think more than a couple people are picking up on that, and that Bailey will get the award. Champ's level of play is higher than anyone else's in the game right now, I hate him so much.
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Old 12-28-2006, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
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Old 12-28-2006, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
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Old 12-28-2006, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
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Old 12-28-2006, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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like all baileys ints have come in the red zone, therefore hes saved the broncos many many times and kepy their playoff hopes alive
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Old 12-28-2006, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
DE is a lot harder to play than CB, that's why a lot of corner backs can be near retardation (Chris gamble 14 on the wonderlic) and still be top 15 in the NFL.
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Old 12-28-2006, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
DE is a lot harder to play than CB, that's why a lot of corner backs can be near retardation (Chris gamble 14 on the wonderlic) and still be top 15 in the NFL.
I dunno. A mistake at DE and nothing bad might happen. A mistake at corner, Touchdown alot of the time.
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Old 12-28-2006, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
DE is a lot harder to play than CB, that's why a lot of corner backs can be near retardation (Chris gamble 14 on the wonderlic) and still be top 15 in the NFL.
QB must be a pretty easy position to play, given that the likely ROY got a 9 and a hall of famer got a 14.
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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It has to be Bailey, he gets the edge because he's going to the playoffs, clearly the best at his position, still some question about the best Defensive End. I think Taylor would get it if the Dolphins had a better record because sacks sell, but you have to ask yourself where the Broncos would be without Bailey, and the starting corners being Darrent Williams and Dominique Foxworth in that situation, it's pretty obvious. Where would the Dolphins be without Taylor? well it doesn't reallly matter unfortunately.
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Old 12-28-2006, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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Merriman ftw 8)
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:36 AM    (permalink
 
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:55 AM    (permalink
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this is a tough decision. every time i think of a reason for taylor to get it, i think of a play bailey made that was equally amazing and important to his team. the fact that almost every single one of his interceptions was within the 2 yard line is ridiculous. the fact that he's shut down literally every WR he's covered and that he's been our best player in run defense on a team with some amazing linebackers is incredible.
If you think about it though, getting an interception in the red zone theoretically should be easier than getting one in the open field. It gives the receiver less room to work with as well as taking away the deep ball.
I do however, think he should win it.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:03 AM    (permalink
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Mistakes at CB are way more critical than at DE. And it's not just through the air. I remember when the Jaguars played the Bills, and rookie Dee Webb had to start. On a run by Willis McGahee, the WR on his side slanted inside as if it were a pass route. Webb follows him and therefore concedes run contain on the outside, McGahee bounces the run to the outside, nobody's out there, touchdown.
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Old 12-29-2006, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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Gotta go with JT for this he single handedly destroyed the bears, pats and a few other teams.

that said I would take champ bailey on my team anyday
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.
I dunno, I think left tackle is harder than CB, by just a smidge.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.
I dunno, I think left tackle is harder than CB, by just a smidge.
Okay I'll give you that. But DE isn't up there IMO. That's why you see all these amazing rookie pass rushers, while corners take forever to develop.
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:10 PM    (permalink
NYmoney
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NYmoney needs more cowbell.
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by ChrisCybulski
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen
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Originally Posted by BlindSite
I think Jason Taylor should get it. Its harder to do the things he does than it is for champ.
Corner is way harder to play than defensive end.
and to do what champ has done and teams really never test him...for him to have 20+ pd 9ints and prob. the best run support corner....i dont see how it is easier to do then play DE
Everyone knows the best run support CB is Jammer, god stop being such a homer. :D

Using the wonderlic to state that DE is harder to play than CB is ridiculous. CB is the hardest position to play other than QB.
I dunno, I think left tackle is harder than CB, by just a smidge.
Okay I'll give you that. But DE isn't up there IMO. That's why you see all these amazing rookie pass rushers, while corners take forever to develop.
exactly. look what 5th round pick mark anderson is doing in chicago, and meanwhile, there is no rookie cb making a comparable impact.
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Old 12-29-2006, 02:12 PM    (permalink
Nitschke-Hawk
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by Whistler6
Aaron Kampman*
Hope you're not serious.
Why not? he's just as good if not better candidate than Merriman right now, the Chargers were 4-0 without Merriman, where would the Packers be without Kampman's sacks and huge amount of tackles? From a full time Defensive End mind you, Merriman is a linebacker by trade so you'd think he'd make a lot more tackles, but he hasn't. Kampman leads all defensive linemen in tackles for the second straight year, when you talk about the best run stopping/pass rushing linemen in football he's gotta be at the top with some other guys, and unlike other guys he has the stats to prove it in both categories. Meaning he's one of the best all around linemen in the game.

Kampman has 15.5 sacks and 83 total tackles. Of the top 5 sacks leaders, that's 26 more tackles than Julius Peppers, 27 more than Jason Taylor, 31 more than Aaron Schobel, and 29 more than Shawne Merriman who's a linebacker, the only person who has more sacks is Merriman. Merriman has .5 sacks more than Kampman right now with 16. Since Merriman's played four less games I'll break it down to per game. That's 1.45 sacks, .36 Forced Fumbles, and 4.9 tackles per game for Merriman. 1.03 sacks, .28 Forced Fumbles, and 5.53 tackles per game for Kampman.

Now keep in mind the surrounding cast Merriman has in the front seven compared to the Packers, and remember that he was suspended for steroids. Whether he did intentionally or not is another story, but everybody knows the effects from it are still there. I almost forgot, he's not even the best player on his own defense, Jamal Williams is, and I know there's people that agree with that because it was discussed recently on here.

I'm not saying Kampman should win it, but he should definitely be a candidate, and definitely a better candididate than Merriman. I've already said I think Champ should win it, what he's done is truly remarkable and involves very little luck, you throw it to him he's got his hands on it.

There's 5 candidates in my mind, and you've gotta ask yourself where the teams would be without these guys, I'll rank them in order of the effect they've had on winning and losing games, 1 the highest 5 the lowest.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Jason Taylor
3. Brian Urlacher
4. Aaron Kampman
5. Shawne Merriman oops I mean Jamal Williams :roll:
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