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Old 12-28-2006, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur
I'd put Vizquel in, mainly because Ozzie Smith got in and Vizquel has been just as good of a defender as Ozzie, whilst being a better hitter and nearly as good a runner.
Ozzie was a better runner IMO, slightly a better fielder, but both were outstanding fielders
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jonathan_VIlma
This is why the MLB Hall of Fame is becoming way too easy to get in to.

Neither Mussina or Schilling are Hall of Famers. Schilling has had two dominating years, but other then that he's been eh. He doesn't have the career numbers.

Mussina's been pretty steady, but he was never dominant, he's always been middle of the pack.

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be for elite players, and I think the MLB will make a huge mistake if they continue to let in products of longitivity in, because they have been middle of the road for a while and thus compiled career numbers because they were fortunate to be healthy.
For a pitcher staying healthy is half the battle though. Zito obviously isn't a hall of famer but the fact that he basically starts 35 games a year and never misses a start was maybe the most attractive thing about him this year in free agency.
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Like some have said, you guys are making the Hall of Fame way too easy to get into. Mussina is probably not getting in and Schilling is very borderline and probably won't get in. I think the active guys that are hall of famers are as follows:

Roger Clemens - He may have been the greatest pitcher of our generation and deserves to at least be in the discussion of greatest pitcher ever. If he comes back next year he'll have 350 wins and 4700 K.

Greg Maddux - He'll have 340+ wins, 3200 K, and currently has a career ERA of 3.07. The 5 Cy Young awards and 16 Gold Glove awards (all consecutively) will no doubt get him in.

Tom Glavine - Will most likely be the last 300 game winner of our generation and possibly ever. He has 2 Cy Young awards (would've been more if he wasn't in the same league as Maddux) and is a 10-time all-star.

Randy Johnson - I debated this one for awhile, but after comparing numbers, he's gotta be in. He should end up with 290 wins, 4700 K, and is currently sporting a career ERA of 3.22 to go along with 5 Cy Young awards and a pitching triple crown.

Pedro Martinez - Just looking at career totals, he looks to be a boarderline hall of famer. But to anyone that has followed his career he is a lock. Pedro had the most dominating "peak" of any pitcher ever. He'll end up with a career ERA under 3.00 and 3000K. He has 3 Cy Young awards and finished in the top 3 three other times. He also finished 2nd in the 1999 MVP voting.

Barry Bonds - Love it or hate it, he's getting in. Unless MLB can find him guilty, people will put him in based on his numbers alone. I've done calculations, and had Barry Bonds not alledgedly done steroids, he still would've finished his career 3rd on the all-time HR list. He was in the HOF before he took steroids, so he'll get in.

Ken Griffey - If he was healthy throughout his career he'd probably be the greatest baseball player ever. In his 18 year career he's only played more than 130 games 9 times and he should STILL get to 600 HR. Combine that with his popularity and great defense, he's a lock.

(I'll give explanations for the rest later)

Frank Thomas

Manny Ramirez

Jeff Bagwell

Derek Jeter

Mike Piazza

Ivan Rodriguez


Guys who are on the fence:

Curt Schilling

Todd Helton

Juan Gonzalez

Jim Thome

Chipper Jones


Guys who could get there, but not right now:

Mike Mussina

Gary Sheffield

Carlos Delgado

Jim Edmonds

David Wells

Kevin Brown
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Also, Jonathan_VIlma. What do you define as a dominating year? Because I count 5 1/2 for Schilling.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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P-L, nice list, that covers nearly all the big names. I agree with everything you wrote except for Todd Helton, I think it's way too early for him, even for him to be considered "on the fence". I think he'll have to sustain his level of play for at least 5-7 more years to have a legit shot at the hall, because besides hitting for average, his numbers are not really HOF worthy, yet. 1700 hits, 286 HR, 996 RBI: he needs to bulk those numbers up, especially playing at Coors Field. I love the career .333 BA though, and good D as well (3 gold gloves), just not enough yet in my opinion, yet being the opitimal word.

Couple other names to think about:

Mariano Rivera
Trevor Hoffman
Billy Wagner
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I forgot to do closers. Rivera and Hoffman are in for sure. Wagner is probably on the fence.
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Todd Helton is not a HoF
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Old 12-29-2006, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriots-Lions
Yeah, I forgot to do closers. Rivera and Hoffman are in for sure. Wagner is probably on the fence.
Its gonna hurt Wagner that he has never closed a big game in his life. He will have to play for a bunch more season and rack up the saves similar to Hoffman to get in.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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If Todd Helton would get consideration, then Larry Walker definitely should. He is a 7 time gold glover and a 3 time batting champ.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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If Jeter continues his usually .320 BA, 15-20 HR, 70+ RBI. 20 SB for the rest of his career...do you think he is in?
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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If Jeter continues his usually .320 BA, 15-20 HR, 70+ RBI. 20 SB for the rest of his career...do you think he is in?


hes a lock
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