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Old 12-30-2006, 05:53 PM    (permalink
Gribble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
Interesting... so based on these results so far, the Texans do not deserve any criticism of the pick.

I can tell you one thing: I still remember taking Tony Mandarich ahead of Barry and Deion, and Derrick Thomas. The experts at the time said Tony was so strong, that he had natural ability not seen before, but it might take time for him to dominate........
so you're calling mario williams one of the biggest busts of all time and a steroid user? :roll: great comparison.

i remember a guy named ryan leaf. he sounds a lot like vince young.
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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I said Mario was the right pick. It is hard to find a prospect like williams, and even though Reggie and VY may be great players, those positions area little easier to find than a great DE IMO
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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I think Bush would've been a bad pick for the Texans. He isn't what they wanted, he said as much pre-draft, they never showed interest in him. A lot of people thought that was a smoke-screen to get trade offers, until Adam Schefter reported that they actually weren't that interested in Reggie Bush. That scheme doesn't fit him, the situation wouldn't fit him. Reggie Bush is in a optimal offense for his talents in New Orleans. But if he's only averaging 3.6 YPC in New Orleans what would he be doing in Houston? Especially since he is the anti-ZBS runner. Instead of cutting back, Reggie bounces everything outside.

In hindsight, I think Vince Young should've been the pick. However, at the time, David Carr was never given a fair chance. Well before the draft they extended Carr, so Young was never a legitimate option. Although, Carr's struggles this year, despite having a better scheme and wide receivers make this look like a mistake. Had they not extended him, I think Young would've been the pick.

Mario Williams has phenomenal potential, his one weakness was he was raw. He's shown glimpses of greatness. One more training camp, the Texans adding a interior force, he will be a good one. Thus, considering Young was never an option. I think that Mario Williams fits the Texans more than Reggie Bush would have. Mario Williams, as per 1/4 of NFL teams, including the Cowboys for one, had Williams as the top overall prospect in the draft.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Oh really? Ryan Leaf could run past 11 guys on defense and score a TD?

Did Ryan ever lead his team to 6 straight wins? Actually how about 1 straight win?

Again, why was Mario only voted the 4th best defensive player in the ACC if he's so great? Do you realize that? He did not dominate in college like Julius Peppers did at UNC or Bruce Smith at Virginia Tech. This was a classic reach. Classic. Sam Bowie-like.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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they should have taken maurice jones-drew 8)
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
Again, why was Mario only voted the 4th best defensive player in the ACC if he's so great?
Where is Mike Hass or Greg Eslinger in the NFL?

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He did not dominate in college like Julius Peppers did at UNC or Bruce Smith at Virginia Tech.
I don't know about Smith, but he had almost the same amount of sacks as Peppers, with more Tackles for Loss.

Quote:
This was a classic reach. Classic.
Which is why at least six teams had Williams number one on their boards, according to Ron Wolf, former reknowned GM of the Packers. One of those teams were the Dallas Cowboys, but Bill Parcells doesn't know anything about football like you do.. :roll:

Quote:
Sam Bowie-like.
Enough with the Sam Bowie nonsense. That comparison makes no sense what so ever. Since;

1. His career was derailed by injuries, thus to say he failed is unfair.
2. Clyde Drexler was already in Portland, and an all-star at Jordan's position.
3. No one knew Michael Jordan would be like that, Dean Smith's system concealed Jordan's potential.
4. That is basketball, this is football.
5. Reggie Bush has no shot of being anything near Jordan great.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Mario


You can't judge a pick after 1 year. Mario is a special player at a need position for Houston. Houston had no idea Domanick Davis would go on IR and they'd have to go the season with Wali Lundy(although at times impressive) and Ron Dayne. They need to stabilize the O-Line before they do something about Carr.


Edit: I actually still think they should have taken D-Brick.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:12 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by Jango
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
So Marion has improved the Texans more than Bush has the Saints?
That's not the question that should be asked. Would Bush have made the same impact for the Texans that he has done for the Saints? That should be the question you should ask and honestly, I think the answer is no and that is why I believe they were right in taking Williams.
They have Deuce to run between the tackles. New Orleans needed an explosive player and Bush was the best pick for them. Sean Payton uses him very well and Bush is surrounded by great talent.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:12 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by NYGibril28
Mario


You can't judge a pick after 1 year. Mario is a special player at a need position for Houston. Houston had no idea Domanick Davis would go on IR and they'd have to go the season with Wali Lundy(although at times impressive) and Ron Dayne. They need to stabilize the O-Line before they do something about Carr.
Exactly, good point.

Also, look for Houston if they don't draft Adrian Peterson in round 1 (if they have a chance to) to go after Kenny Irons or Lorenzo Booker in round 2.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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If you think Mario Williams is a bad pick, or reach, then you think Bill Parcells knows less about football than you do. Jerry Jones on Bryant Gumble's HBO show said that the Cowboys, under Parcells, had Williams #1 on their board.

Case closed.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:14 PM    (permalink
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
I think Bush would've been a bad pick for the Texans. He isn't what they wanted, he said as much pre-draft, they never showed interest in him. A lot of people thought that was a smoke-screen to get trade offers, until Adam Schefter reported that they actually weren't that interested in Reggie Bush. That scheme doesn't fit him, the situation wouldn't fit him. Reggie Bush is in a optimal offense for his talents in New Orleans. But if he's only averaging 3.6 YPC in New Orleans what would he be doing in Houston? Especially since he is the anti-ZBS runner. Instead of cutting back, Reggie bounces everything outside.

In hindsight, I think Vince Young should've been the pick. However, at the time, David Carr was never given a fair chance. Well before the draft they extended Carr, so Young was never a legitimate option. Although, Carr's struggles this year, despite having a better scheme and wide receivers make this look like a mistake. Had they not extended him, I think Young would've been the pick.

Mario Williams has phenomenal potential, his one weakness was he was raw. He's shown glimpses of greatness. One more training camp, the Texans adding a interior force, he will be a good one. Thus, considering Young was never an option. I think that Mario Williams fits the Texans more than Reggie Bush would have. Mario Williams, as per 1/4 of NFL teams, including the Cowboys for one, had Williams as the top overall prospect in the draft.
Actually his one big flaw was that he takes plays off, not rawness. But I agree with 99.9% of what you say.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
Oh really? Ryan Leaf could run past 11 guys on defense and score a TD?
had vince young done that in the nfl in march? i forgot.

Quote:
Did Ryan ever lead his team to 6 straight wins? Actually how about 1 straight win?
thanks for letting me know you haven't followed football very long. he actually won his first two starts. further, he was one of the best QB prospects ever, good enough to make the colts think twice about taking peyton manning. then again, i would've figured someone throwing tony mandarich's name around would you know, know that.

Quote:
Again, why was Mario only voted the 4th best defensive player in the ACC if he's so great? Do you realize that? He did not dominate in college like Julius Peppers did at UNC or Bruce Smith at Virginia Tech. This was a classic reach. Classic. Sam Bowie-like.
how's danny wuerffel's career? jason white? eric crouch? they were all voted as the best players in the NATION. so they must be future hall of famers, right? get. a. grip.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
I think Bush would've been a bad pick for the Texans. He isn't what they wanted, he said as much pre-draft, they never showed interest in him. A lot of people thought that was a smoke-screen to get trade offers, until Adam Schefter reported that they actually weren't that interested in Reggie Bush. That scheme doesn't fit him, the situation wouldn't fit him. Reggie Bush is in a optimal offense for his talents in New Orleans. But if he's only averaging 3.6 YPC in New Orleans what would he be doing in Houston? Especially since he is the anti-ZBS runner. Instead of cutting back, Reggie bounces everything outside.

In hindsight, I think Vince Young should've been the pick. However, at the time, David Carr was never given a fair chance. Well before the draft they extended Carr, so Young was never a legitimate option. Although, Carr's struggles this year, despite having a better scheme and wide receivers make this look like a mistake. Had they not extended him, I think Young would've been the pick.

Mario Williams has phenomenal potential, his one weakness was he was raw. He's shown glimpses of greatness. One more training camp, the Texans adding a interior force, he will be a good one. Thus, considering Young was never an option. I think that Mario Williams fits the Texans more than Reggie Bush would have. Mario Williams, as per 1/4 of NFL teams, including the Cowboys for one, had Williams as the top overall prospect in the draft.
Actually his one big flaw was that he takes plays off, not rawness. But I agree with 99.9% of what you say.
He took plays off early in the year, late in the year he was a beast. Which to me, showed that he still wasn't ready. He's only 21 years old and growing into his body type.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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any1 else find it weird that Charlie Casserly resigned as GM almost immediately after the draft? I'm not implying that he is trying to ruin the franchise, it's just a little odd
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
Oh really? Ryan Leaf could run past 11 guys on defense and score a TD?

Did Ryan ever lead his team to 6 straight wins? Actually how about 1 straight win?

Again, why was Mario only voted the 4th best defensive player in the ACC if he's so great? Do you realize that? He did not dominate in college like Julius Peppers did at UNC or Bruce Smith at Virginia Tech. This was a classic reach. Classic. Sam Bowie-like.
Sam Bowie was an All-American. And the Blazers kinda had a HOF player at the 2 guard position they drafted the year before... although that gets lost in history. It would be like Carson Palmer getting injured for the season in game 1 next year and them drafting Jamarcus Russell first overall.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Reggie Bush could play WR for Houston like he does for New Orleans. That would have taken the double team off Andre Johnson.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Reggie Bush could play WR for Houston like he does for New Orleans. That would have taken the double team off Andre Johnson.
Hadn't they signed Moulds at the time though? I think they viewed him as the guy to take heat off Andre.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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"Bill Parcells said this or that"....
Ron Wolf said this or that....

First of all, these guys usually like as a smokescreen.

Second of all, Ron Wolf is the same GENIUS who in 1998 selected another DE from the state of NC over WR Randy Moss. He has since claimed that it was his biggest mistake ever. But again, me and my brother who wanted Moss taken that day know nothing about football, because we do not have a GM postion like Wolf did.

Wolf is also the same GM who selected another DE, Jamal Reynolds from Florida State, ahead of Marcus Stroud. Wolf has a terrible track record judging first round talent. He was pathetic with his 1st round picks but did well in the mid rounds.

But that Jamal Reynolds pick cost the Packers a chance at another Super Bowl because this team was close a few years back, despite getting NOTHING out of that high pick.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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With the Raiders, he took part in drafting such notable players as Art Shell, Gene Upshaw, Ken Stabler, and Jack Tatum, all of whom would play for the Super Bowl 11 Championship team in 1976, and later such players as Howie Long, Marcus Allen, and Matt Millen, all of the Super Bowl 18 Championship team, the then-Los Angeles Raiders .

With the Green Bay Packers, he hired head coach Mike Holmgren and traded for then Atlanta Falcons backup quarterback Brett Favre. Wolf also signed free-agent Reggie White, bringing in a team leader and defensive superstar. This signing, in NFL free agency's first year, also made Green Bay a more desirable destination for future potential free agents.

Over his nine-year term as GM, the Packers compiled a 92-52 record, good for a .639 winning percentage, second in the NFL over that span to the San Francisco 49ers. The Packers won Super Bowl XXXI against the New England Patriots, lost in Super Bowl XXXII to the Denver Broncos, and made the playoffs six straight times.
Yeah, he has a horrible track record. :roll:

As for Bill Parcells, that info came out after the draft. So the Cowboys saying Mario Williams was number one on their boards definitely wasn't a smoke screen.
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Old 12-30-2006, 07:14 PM    (permalink
 
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I think Bush would've been a bad pick for the Texans. He isn't what they wanted, he said as much pre-draft, they never showed interest in him. A lot of people thought that was a smoke-screen to get trade offers, until Adam Schefter reported that they actually weren't that interested in Reggie Bush. That scheme doesn't fit him, the situation wouldn't fit him. Reggie Bush is in a optimal offense for his talents in New Orleans. But if he's only averaging 3.6 YPC in New Orleans what would he be doing in Houston? Especially since he is the anti-ZBS runner. Instead of cutting back, Reggie bounces everything outside.

In hindsight, I think Vince Young should've been the pick. However, at the time, David Carr was never given a fair chance. Well before the draft they extended Carr, so Young was never a legitimate option. Although, Carr's struggles this year, despite having a better scheme and wide receivers make this look like a mistake. Had they not extended him, I think Young would've been the pick.

Mario Williams has phenomenal potential, his one weakness was he was raw. He's shown glimpses of greatness. One more training camp, the Texans adding a interior force, he will be a good one. Thus, considering Young was never an option. I think that Mario Williams fits the Texans more than Reggie Bush would have. Mario Williams, as per 1/4 of NFL teams, including the Cowboys for one, had Williams as the top overall prospect in the draft.
Actually his one big flaw was that he takes plays off, not rawness. But I agree with 99.9% of what you say.
He took plays off early in the year, late in the year he was a beast. Which to me, showed that he still wasn't ready. He's only 21 years old and growing into his body type.
I didn't say that I said that scouts said that. I didn't think that was a big concern but that WAS the main concern among scouts.
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Old 12-30-2006, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
"Bill Parcells said this or that"....
Ron Wolf said this or that....

First of all, these guys usually like as a smokescreen.

Second of all, Ron Wolf is the same GENIUS who in 1998 selected another DE from the state of NC over WR Randy Moss. He has since claimed that it was his biggest mistake ever. But again, me and my brother who wanted Moss taken that day know nothing about football, because we do not have a GM postion like Wolf did.

Wolf is also the same GM who selected another DE, Jamal Reynolds from Florida State, ahead of Marcus Stroud. Wolf has a terrible track record judging first round talent. He was pathetic with his 1st round picks but did well in the mid rounds.

But that Jamal Reynolds pick cost the Packers a chance at another Super Bowl because this team was close a few years back, despite getting NOTHING out of that high pick.
It is really easy in 2006, nearly 2007, to look back and see the blunders then make statements like that. At the time of the draft, unless you are a Jets fan, most picks seem pretty good and you see how well they develop in October. The fact of the matter is, you can easily look back and say "The Eagles took Freddie Mitchell ahead of Chad Johnson and Steve Smith" but at the time of the draft, you'd be crazy to suggest that they do it vica versa.

Some prospects just don't pan out while others do. Sam Bowie was probably projected to be an insane player in his day and I highly doubt anyone thought "Michael Jordan will change NBA history, forever". It's just the nature of the business.
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Old 12-30-2006, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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reggie bush wouldnt be doing crap for that team

mario was the right pick

vince young will come down to earth, that team has been getting really lucky every game
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Old 12-30-2006, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Traded down and taken Jones-Drew, Colston, Vince Young and still have extra picks.
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Old 12-30-2006, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
If you think Mario Williams is a bad pick, or reach, then you think Bill Parcells knows less about football than you do. Jerry Jones on Bryant Gumble's HBO show said that the Cowboys, under Parcells, had Williams #1 on their board.

Case closed.
Boy, they struck gold by reaching for Bobby Carpenter, eh?
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Old 12-30-2006, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
If you think Mario Williams is a bad pick, or reach, then you think Bill Parcells knows less about football than you do. Jerry Jones on Bryant Gumble's HBO show said that the Cowboys, under Parcells, had Williams #1 on their board.

Case closed.
Boy, they struck gold by reaching for Bobby Carpenter, eh?
He didn't look that terrible when I saw him in his limited PT. I'd take him over Allen any day.
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