Best Defensive Division in Football?

[bearsfan_51]

I said better than good/average, meaning very good I guess. Of that list I would say the obvious two defensive ends, Pierce, and maybe Tuck and Ross.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I said better than good/average, meaning very good I guess. Of that list I would say the obvious two defensive ends, Pierce, and maybe Tuck and Ross.

id take Ross off the list then. not yet. he's gotta prove it first. for now he's good, with potential to be better.

question, wasn't alex brown on the market? or will you guys keep a 3 DE rotation going?

[Geo]

I wish Kiwanuka didn't have to deal with the linebacker experiment shenanigans, but it's a necessary evil with Strahan still playing. Umenyiora is injured every year, so maybe he'll see time at DE yet.

BBD, Kiwi lines up inside at DT in the 4 Aces formation, right?

[Damix]

Originally Posted by Geo

I wish Kiwanuka didn't have to deal with the linebacker experiment shenanigans, but it's a necessary evil with Strahan still playing. Umenyiora is injured every year, so maybe he'll see time at DE yet.

BBD, Kiwi lines up inside at DT in the 4 Aces formation, right?

He does, but I'm not sure if that will continue into next year with Alford proving to be capable at getting after the passer.

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by Geo

I wish Kiwanuka didn't have to deal with the linebacker experiment shenanigans, but it's a necessary evil with Strahan still playing. Umenyiora is injured every year, so maybe he'll see time at DE yet.

BBD, Kiwi lines up inside at DT in the 4 Aces formation, right?

he does, but with the amount of stunts and twists we use, it doesn't matter all that much. Alot you'll see Strahan and/or Osi coming up the middle

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

id take Ross off the list then. not yet. he's gotta prove it first. for now he's good, with potential to be better.

question, wasn't alex brown on the market? or will you guys keep a 3 DE rotation going?

We signed Brown to a 2 year extension. 15 million in new money so he's under contract for 4 more years.

So yeah.

We also drafted Dan Bazuin in the late 2nd last year and have Israel Idonije. Idonije can play UT and special teams, no idea what happens to Bazuin.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Geo

I wish Kiwanuka didn't have to deal with the linebacker experiment shenanigans, but it's a necessary evil with Strahan still playing. Umenyiora is injured every year, so maybe he'll see time at DE yet.

BBD, Kiwi lines up inside at DT in the 4 Aces formation, right?

yes, he was an inside guy. when we come out with 4 DEs, we do a lot of twisting and stunting because we have enough speed inside with Kiwi and Tuck to make it work. From my recollection, he mostly got his sacks by holding his ground, and letting the qb run right into him. The qb usually had to run around and away from our other DEs and that allowed Kiwi to just try to clog linemen and fall onto the qb who was busy running away from Osi, Tuck and Strahan.

As for the LB experiment, Im personally in favor it it. Why? Because its the only way i can see us realistically keeping 3 quality DEs long term. Having Kiwi allows us to move the investment to a different position technically. And in his hybrid role, we do alot of zone blitzing or Cover 2, so his coverage responsibilities are minimal.

He's also not strong enough in his current frame to play DE fulltime. especially LE.

He is a playmaker though, and if he does move fulltime to DE he's going to be a very very good DE with the right development. The problem is we can't keep him, Tuck and Osi long term as full time DEs. I just don't see it working. I think we'll see some big strides at LB this year. He was improving a lot in that role before he got hurt. Another year under his belt, hopefully he'll improve.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

We signed Brown to a 2 year extension. 15 million in new money so he's under contract for 4 more years.

So yeah.

We also drafted Dan Bazuin in the late 2nd last year and have Israel Idonije. Idonije can play UT and special teams, no idea what happens to Bazuin.

i think you guys can run a similar 4 ace package of your own this year. Lovie should give it a shot.

[VoteLynnSwan]

well Tommie Harris would HAVE to be on the field no matter what... so if we say went with a lineup of

Anderson, Harris, Brown, Ogunleye

that wouldn't be a bad idea on passing situations.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by VoteLynnSwan

well Tommie Harris would HAVE to be on the field no matter what... so if we say went with a lineup of

Anderson, Harris, Brown, Ogunleye

that wouldn't be a bad idea on passing situations.

yeah thats what i was thinking. Harris is like a bulkier version of Tuck anyway. He can twist and stunt with the best of them. he has to stay on that field, perhaps only get off for breathers.

Extending Brown was a wise move too. Andersen gets paid peanuts anyway (what a steal btw), and by the time his contract comes around, Brown is gonezo.

[bearsfan_51]

They'll likely extend Anderson much earlier than that. The Bears are like the Eagles in that regard.

And we sub Tommie rather frequently VLS. Israel Idonije usually plays NT in passing situations, I've seen Brown play UT but he isn't particularly good at it.

[awfullyquiet]

wow. i read this thread from start to finish.

this has been a ******** season. i think bf called the nfc east 'a joke'.

anyway. i'm a big proponent of the 5-2 for the bears. 3 inside (anderson, dusty, harris), two over the strong side (ogunleye, bazuin), lb's cheat weak. sure, it might require the occasional coverage by an end over the middle or flat... but. speed isn't an issue with the de's. no-sir-ee-bob. this would be a real real real aggressive blitz package. i think it could be effective if you line up briggs over too.

i guess, in my mind, it'd be very suitable for cover-3 too.

[neko4]

Originally Posted by awfullyquiet

wow. i read this thread from start to finish.

this has been a ******** season. i think bf called the nfc east 'a joke'.

anyway. i'm a big proponent of the 5-2 for the bears. 3 inside (anderson, dusty, harris), two over the strong side (ogunleye, bazuin), lb's cheat weak. sure, it might require the occasional coverage by an end over the middle or flat... but. speed isn't an issue with the de's. no-sir-ee-bob. this would be a real real real aggressive blitz package. i think it could be effective if you line up briggs over too.

i guess, in my mind, it'd be very suitable for cover-3 too.

Maybe Green Bay should go 5-2

/////////////Hawk-Barnett
KGB-Jenkins-Pickett-Jolly-Kampman
rotate Cole and Harrell in, and put Poppinga back at DE where he played in college and have him go in everynow and then


or maybe 4-4

Hawk-Hodge-Barnett-Poppinga
Jenkins-Pickett-Jolly-Kampman

or stick Bigby at Hawk's spot and Hawk at Hodge's spot and Hodge on the bench

[PACKmanN]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Hawk is an NFL MIKE forced to play WILL because you can't bench Barnett who is a beast in his own right.

Hawk would beast it at MIKE, but what are the Pack supposed to do? You can't bench Barnett.

On top of that, Hodge is rotting on the bench.

Barnett has said he will play both the MIKE and WILL position but not the SAM. That being said, Barnett is the leader of the defense, and every defense leader is the MIKE.

And the other part about us being better, we should, but we rely on Woodson and Harris too much and hardly blitz with the LBers. Maybe it could have been Poppinga poor coverage skills not allowing us to blitz, so we will see now that we signed Chillar.

[GB12]

Originally Posted by PACKmanN

Barnett has said he will play both the MIKE and WILL position but not the SAM. That being said, Barnett is the leader of the defense, and every defense leader is the MIKE.

No he hasn't. I dont know where you keep getting this from, but he never said that. He said that he likesplaying MLB and doesn't want to move at all. Now that he got a new contract he might be willing with some convincing, but there's no point in moving him as there are very few MLBs in the league I'd rather have.

[someone447]

Originally Posted by neko4

Maybe Green Bay should go 5-2

/////////////Hawk-Barnett
KGB-Jenkins-Pickett-Jolly-Kampman
rotate Cole and Harrell in, and put Poppinga back at DE where he played in college and have him go in everynow and then

You know what that is? That is essentially a 3-4, you just subbed Kampmann for a rush backer.

KGB-Jenkins-Pickett-Kampmann-Poppinga
Hawk-Barnett

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by PACKmanN

Barnett has said he will play both the MIKE and WILL position but not the SAM. That being said, Barnett is the leader of the defense, and every defense leader is the MIKE.

And the other part about us being better, we should, but we rely on Woodson and Harris too much and hardly blitz with the LBers. Maybe it could have been Poppinga poor coverage skills not allowing us to blitz, so we will see now that we signed Chillar.

its a great problem to have really. youre essentially 3 deep at MIKE, and have 3 quality MIKEs on the roster. Even Hodge was pretty good when given the chance. Im a big Barnett fan, he's a great player. The problem is not maximizing Hawk's talents, but hey, what can you do.

i think your DC is just way too vanilla. a great defense needs great players and great coaching. you can't totally rely on the players, because sooner or later they won't execute up to par, and you can't totally rely on coaching because players make plays. a great/dominant defense has a good mix of the 2, and with GB, i see great players but poor coaching. he needs to mix it up more. or at least do a better job disguising the plays. its so obvious what your defense is doing.

[awfullyquiet]

Originally Posted by neko4

Maybe Green Bay should go 5-2

/////////////Hawk-Barnett
KGB-Jenkins-Pickett-Jolly-Kampman
rotate Cole and Harrell in, and put Poppinga back at DE where he played in college and have him go in everynow and then


or maybe 4-4

Hawk-Hodge-Barnett-Poppinga
Jenkins-Pickett-Jolly-Kampman

or stick Bigby at Hawk's spot and Hawk at Hodge's spot and Hodge on the bench

i really don't think that'd work as nice as you'd think, well, because of the way the packs defense works. it's passive, to the point it requires you to bend but not break, it's a real fantastic front four that allows woodson and harris to wreck havoc. not to say you couldn't run a 4-4 or 5-2, it's just that you don't need to. sure, you do what works though, and what works is that passiveness. keep the play in front of you...

dropping atari down a bit to toy teams would be fantastic sliding him on the outside of hawk. put hawk in coverage, switch zones... really, the team shouldn't be sitting back and playing neutral on aggression, when i think of the packers in all that i've seen (which is a lot. i watch around 60% of packers games only to rip on them at chicago residents who happen to be packers fans. like my younger brother). it's not that the players aren't aggressive, it's just i don't think that there's a need for a full formation change for the packers in order to get 'more pressure' you generate significant pressure with your front four. you just have to blitz hawk more (who two years ago racked up what? 8 sacks? he's certainly capable to shed blockers). throw in some misdirection. a few stunts. corner blitz. zone blitz. it'd be a great day.

[neko4]

im just day dreaming. I would like to see us blitz more. we do good enough with 4, id really like to see 5 guys

[GB12]

How 'bout that Lions defense.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by GB12

How 'bout that Lions defense.

North can not be considered best defensive division because of the Lions. That performance today has to be the worst case of a team not being able to tackle in the history of the universe. A team full of blind grandma midgets with no legs and arthritis and alzheimers could have tackled better. Heck get Millen to actually play and we'd do better. Redding and Darby were invisible, and Lenon is just a terrible terrible Mike and he's been our starter for 3 years. How can Millen not judge linebackers. He's a former good LB in the NFL. I've never lost hope on a team in Week 1 but I think after that performance I just might have too. Hope they win but know they won't. And if Millen isn't fired, and I mean fired out of a cannon into the sun, then thats just not fair.

[umphrey]

I'm not sure why the legion of Lions fans haven't burned down Millen's house carrying pitch forks and torches yet, while the Lions fans on the police force twiddle their thumbs and look at the sky.

[Sportsfan486]

Originally Posted by umphrey

I'm not sure why the legion of Lions fans haven't burned down Millen's house carrying pitch forks and torches yet, while the Lions fans on the police force twiddle their thumbs and look at the sky.

I think it's because all of the Lions fans on the police force owned guns and thusly have shot themselves by now.

[bearsfan_51]

Come back Tactica. I miss you. :(