Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

View Poll Results: Last Few Winners Not Making The Same Impact?
Yes 17 50.00%
No 17 50.00%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2008, 06:09 PM    (permalink
kmartin575
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 976
Reputation: -76
kmartin575 needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder&Lightning View Post
100% agree I dont understand how anyone can say Sanders was undeserving.... Without Sanders Indys D wouldnt have been nearly as good as it was.
Still doesn't matter IMO. His stats were not all that great and all previous DPOY winners put up great stats.
kmartin575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 06:13 PM    (permalink
Thunder&Lightning
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MA / FL
Posts: 3,166
Reputation: 65199
Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
Still doesn't matter IMO. His stats were not all that great and all previous DPOY winners put up great stats.
Its not all about stats its about who is most valuable to his team. Its a team game...stats in my opinion mean nothing when deciding MVP's...Yes stats will probably come with it but its all about winning and what players help there team win the most...
__________________




Thunder&Lightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 06:20 PM    (permalink
kmartin575
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 976
Reputation: -76
kmartin575 needs more cowbell.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder&Lightning View Post
Its not all about stats its about who is most valuable to his team. Its a team game...stats in my opinion mean nothing when deciding MVP's...Yes stats will probably come with it but its all about winning and what players help there team win the most...
We're not talking about most valuable player. This is DPOY. IMO there is a difference. DPOY's are playmakers. While Sanders was very valuable in no way was he a consistent playmaker IMO.
kmartin575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 06:42 PM    (permalink
Paranoidmoonduck
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 9,439
Reputation: 197475
Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paranoidmoonduck is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm sorry, but Jason Taylor was a one man wrecking crew two years ago. I'd argue that he had as disruptive a season as any defender on that list.
__________________
Paranoidmoonduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 06:43 PM    (permalink
Thunder&Lightning
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MA / FL
Posts: 3,166
Reputation: 65199
Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Thunder&Lightning is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
We're not talking about most valuable player. This is DPOY. IMO there is a difference. DPOY's are playmakers. While Sanders was very valuable in no way was he a consistent playmaker IMO.
Normally the MVP is either the OPOY or the DPOY.

I dont see how you can say sanders was not a consistent playmaker... He was around the ball every play. The only thing that held him back was injuries, and he still played through them...
__________________





Last edited by Thunder&Lightning : 03-03-2008 at 06:49 PM.
Thunder&Lightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 06:50 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 20,784
Reputation: 1970937
LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Sanders played like a beast, but the impact Haynesworth had was incredible and he was pretty much unblockable even with two guys, he was on his way to a Warren Sapp type season, he was lining up at DT, DE, anywhere on the D line and pretty much wrecking havoc on the o line, he was on his way to locking it up before his injury slowed him down the final stretch, not to mention the defensive line was giving up 150+ rushing yds without him, and was one of the best with in there.
__________________





Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
LonghornsLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 08:17 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,877
Reputation: 3934030
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't think theres been a dropoff in production from DPOY nowadays, I just think that we look back at the players from yesteryear with more appreciation because most of them have gone on to accomplish great things during their careers, and that unconsciously has a lasting effect of our recollection of what they accomplished.

5 years from now, if Bob Sanders becomes a player of the caliber of a Strahan, Sapp, or Lewis, I think most will hold his year to the same pedestal as the latter guys.

I also think that a stronger emphasis on coaching in today's analysis of football has taken away from the lore of individual players in the public's eyes. That also plays a role in it.
__________________
bigbluedefense is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 09:16 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I want to address a few points I've seen on this thread.

A few people said Bob Sanders was undeserving of this past season's DPOY award. I'm just curious who those people would have given it to, considering Haynesworth was the only other viable option, and that was only due to the visible impact his absence had, to which I say did anyone else watch the 2006 season?

Someone said Bob Sanders was not a consistent playmaker. While the film would refute that, all someone would have to do would be to look at the Colts average yardage given up on the ground in 2007 vs 2006 to see that that's not true, and that doesn't take into account Sanders's ability to diagnose a play, which among defenders is one of the best in the league.

Someone else said Bob didn't play on a great defense. First off, that has very little to do with being the best defensive player in a given season (this is almost as bad as saying a QB isn't great because he doesn't have a championship ring), and secondly, I guess this person doesn't think any defense this season was great, because they said the defense that allowed the fewest points in the NFL this season was not great.

Another person said Bob Sanders doesn't cover well. Again, I would refer this person to the film, but since I don't really have that here (though I can show an example of Bob making a GREAT coverage, one that helped to put the Colts in the Super Bowl in 2006), I can point out that Bob's coverage skills are less likely to show up in the stats for a couple reasons, those being: 1) scheme, which calls for Bob to, when he covers, prevent the deep ball, which, by the way, the Colts were in the top 5 (and I wouldn't be shocked if they were #1) in fewest passes of 20+ yards allowed in 2007, and 2) Bob doesn't catch a lot of the balls he gets his hands on, and as a result, his INT numbers will never be high, which is how a lot of people judge how well a player can cover. I can assure you, however, that Bob is no Roy Williams.

All in all, I agree with bbd's viewpoint here, although I will say that Bob has already done a great deal to establish himself as a great safety in the NFL.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 06:51 PM    (permalink
indyfan1985
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Posts: 1,299
Reputation: 18941
indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.indyfan1985 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMonkey View Post
bob sanders was pretty ridiculous this year. Didnt show up as much in the stats i guess, but his impact was just as good. Taylor and Urlacher weren't quite as good but again I think the impact they made (Urlacher especially) was just as important.

Hard to say, i voted no mainly because Bob Sanders was phenomenal last year, but i definitely see the point that can be made on past guys doing better because statistically it isnt even close but in terms of impact i think it's a little closer.
If the award is based mainly on stats, then yeah Sanders probably shouldnt have gotten it. But it's so much more than stats. Sanders effected the way offenses attack them, and without Sanders, the Colt's D would be horrible.
__________________
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS - A CHANGE IS COMING!

indyfan1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 06:59 PM    (permalink
umphrey
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,619
Reputation: 49207
umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.umphrey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
There is a reason it is called DPOY and not Defensive Player on a Winning Team and Great Defense Of the Year (DPWTGDOY) award.
I knew someone was going to reply with something like that and that's why I qualified with "debatable".

In the past the DPOY has been a great player for their defense as well as a playmaker and part of a winning team and a leading defense. Watching sportcenter, the playoffs, anything football related and you were sure to see him lighting it up.

The last 2 years IMO the NFL had to choose between the guy on sportcenter and the guy who helped his defense the most. They chose the latter. I'm not arguing the decision, it was the correct one, but in the past it was the same guy. And that made it seem less impressive to a lot of people, me included, even though I think they made the right choice.
__________________

Thanks to BK for the sig
umphrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 01:00 AM    (permalink
no love
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 1,075
Reputation: 1260
no love is a cocksman.no love is a cocksman.no love is a cocksman.no love is a cocksman.no love is a cocksman.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
A few people said Bob Sanders was undeserving of this past season's DPOY award. I'm just curious who those people would have given it to, considering Haynesworth was the only other viable option, and that was only due to the visible impact his absence had, to which I say did anyone else watch the 2006 season?
No offense to Sanders because he is a great player. But there were plenty of people who were viable options. To name just two: Patrick Kearney and Jared Allen. If these two guys weren't playing in Seattle and KC, there would have been a lot more hype about them. Just wanted to make sure that no one forgets the year that these two guys had.

Jared Allen in particular had a ridiculous year, 15.5 sacks is great, but 10 PD's is amazing for a DE. Thats two more than Bob Sanders :-P

Also, be prepared for P Willie to bring the DPOY back to glamor next year! Can't wait for his second year in the system.
no love is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 01:14 AM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,268
Reputation: 2341466
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I always thought Ray Lewis' 2003 season was a bit overstated. That defense benefitted a lot from Jamal Lewis just grinding the hell out of the clock that year.

You raise an interesting point. Taylor just had a monster 2006 though, that one kinda sticks out.

Urlacher is an interesting case because his best attribute, covering the middle half of the field in the cover 2, really doesn't show up in the stat sheet. When he's at his best, it's his abilities that really allow us to do everything else that we want to do.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 10:36 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Urlacher is an interesting case because his best attribute, covering the middle half of the field in the cover 2, really doesn't show up in the stat sheet. When he's at his best, it's his abilities that really allow us to do everything else that we want to do.
The same applies for Bob Sanders. One of his best attributes is being able to diagnose a play and play it accordingly, which is why when he's in the Colts defense is among the best in the league with a league average run defense and a great pass defense that doesn't allow the deep ball (see: 2005, playoffs 2006, 2007), and when he's out, the Colts tend not to allow the deep ball very much either, but that's because teams are gashing the defensive front for 5-6 yards per carry (see: 2006 regular season). You'll never see those numbers on Bob Sanders's stat sheet though, which is part of why people question his season.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 11:49 AM    (permalink
portermvp84
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bulimia twice the taste less calories
Posts: 3,467
Reputation: 49
portermvp84 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Sanders played awesome, the Colts without just plan blew. He was a one of a knd saftey last season. He played great ball.
__________________


Thanks to jackalope
portermvp84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 11:58 AM    (permalink
Number 10
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 11,267
Reputation: 1269
Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.Number 10 is a cocksman.
Default

You can't base your opinion on the matter on stats alone. I know it's unfair to expect the common fan to watch 5+ games a week but a player's presence and impact, especially on the defensive side of the ball, is not easy to find by going to his NFL.com player profile.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikes99ej View Post
These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
Number 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 11:03 AM    (permalink
tjpackers
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Title Town (WI)
Posts: 146
Reputation: -95
tjpackers needs more cowbell.
Default

yah but stats also matter. If a guy has the leadership of of ray lewis but the stats of willie mcginest (30 tackles) theres no way he is going to win even though his on the field presence is high
tjpackers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 09:32 AM    (permalink
Seanhawk
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 62
Reputation: 276
Seanhawk hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.Seanhawk hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d34ng3l021 View Post
Sanders didnt deserve it this year, I think, but he also was the heart of a great defense this year. Though I think Freeney is more vital, but whatever.
I disagree that Freeney is more vital to the Colts defense. How can you explain their D being horrid up until the playoffs with Sanders hurt (and Freeney playing) and magically turning around during the playoffs and arguably being the reason they won the Super Bowl when Sanders was playing? On top of that, in 2007, the Colts D was solid all season long with Freeney missing 7 games (with Sanders healthy) and only having 21 tackles and 3.5 sacks in the 10 games he played.
Seanhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.