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Old 06-02-2007, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I don't think I'm being a homer when I say that the Bears are too low.

If this is JUST starters I'm fine with it, but your nickleback plays about 50% of the time and Ricky Manning Jr is one of, if not the, best nicklebacks in the NFL (when he's not beating up "Jews" at Denny's anyway).

By comparison, the Packers and Bucs have no depth and are ahead? Meh...

It's not a big difference, but I'd put us ahead of both.


And the Niners are way too high. Walt Harris had a good season last year, but come on...he's still Walt Harris. It's not like he all of the sudden became great after 11 seasons in the league.
Yea I don't see how they include nickel backs and then have teams that don't have good ones above teams that are 3 deep.
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Old 06-02-2007, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I don't think I'm being a homer when I say that the Bears are too low.

If this is JUST starters I'm fine with it, but your nickleback plays about 50% of the time and Ricky Manning Jr is one of, if not the, best nicklebacks in the NFL (when he's not beating up "Jews" at Denny's anyway).

By comparison, the Packers and Bucs have no depth and are ahead? Meh...

It's not a big difference, but I'd put us ahead of both.


And the Niners are way too high. Walt Harris had a good season last year, but come on...he's still Walt Harris. It's not like he all of the sudden became great after 11 seasons in the league.
I too agree the Niners are to high and I would say the Harris/Woodson are better then Tillman/Vasher but if you include nicklebacks like you said i would give the bears a slight edge
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Old 06-02-2007, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Foxworth is weak, soft and sloppy.

Marshall>Foxworth
Gamble = Bly
Champ > Lucas

IMO edge goes to Denver, but not by a great margin.
how is foxworth weak, soft and sloppy? the man played safety for a few games and did very well for being a corner. foxworth could be starting for many teams, he is a very good corner. Denvers 4th corner is also very good Peymah has all the physical skills the only reason he is not the 3rd or even 2nd corner is because he doesnt have good hands and drops a lot of balls, but hes not a WR so it shouldnt count too much against him.

I would go Champ>Lucas>Bly>Gamble>Foxworth=Marshall
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Is there anything the Panthers aren't the best in?


Ive yet to hear you say something negative about your own team. They seem to be the best in everything, dline/lb core/secondary/wr duo/rb duo. I mean come on now, if they were THAT good, they wouldn't be so inconsistent.

Carolina is the most overrated team in the NFL and has been for a couple of years now.

Don't get me wrong, I think they have a solid team, and solid defense, but theyre not the best in the NFL or NFC for that matter in any particular area of their team. Theyre just not.
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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The Niners probably are a bit too high... but that said, if we're ranking top trios, SF is going to be in the top five in the NFC, probably top three. The problem last year was that opposing QBs had WAY too long to throw the ball. Nolan's system on D is very advantageous for smart, athletic corners like Harris though, so I wouldn't be too surprised to see a repeat from him. I also wouldn't be too surprised if he gets moved to FS in the next year or two to help prolong his career-- especially if Tarrell Brown stays out of trouble and plays up to his potential.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Pretty much hit the nail on the head there. His name isn't Blindsite for nothing. All he sees is Carolina Blue.
Wow, both you and big blue obviously don't read my posts, time and time again I've pointed out that Carolina's special teams are hopeless, our safeties are terrible and we need more talent at tight end and fullback. Outside those areas the team is strong, unless you want to argue that probowlers on the offensive line, defensive line, at wide receiver and a great trio of cornerbacks is homeristic...

Fact is Carolina is a very strong defensive unit, they've been at the top of the league three out of the last four years... We've got a great wide receiver and good young running back, we've got depth at offensive line and a good starting set. Our quarterback is money in the postseason and has only had a down year when injured and missing 3 of 5 from the offensive line.

The only argument I've made to get this label you want to throw on me is that Thomas Davis is a better LBer than AJ hawk which was agreed with by another poster, who isn't a panthers fan, and I don't want to drag this out so leave it at that and that Peppers was a better defensive end than Osi Umenyiora which not only other posters agreed with, but professional sports writers and analysts agree with.

Other than that I've said Delhomme is anywhere between 8-15 out of the starting QBs in the league, which isn't a stretch.

Cry me a river.

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Originally Posted by Rockrule40 View Post
how is foxworth weak, soft and sloppy? the man played safety for a few games and did very well for being a corner. foxworth could be starting for many teams, he is a very good corner. Denvers 4th corner is also very good Peymah has all the physical skills the only reason he is not the 3rd or even 2nd corner is because he doesnt have good hands and drops a lot of balls, but hes not a WR so it shouldnt count too much against him.

I would go Champ>Lucas>Bly>Gamble>Foxworth=Marshall
Foxworth has very little muscle mass and is quite skinny even for a cornerback, he's lackadaisical when he goes up for the ball and at times hasn't got the mean streak a cornerback needs. He's very sloppy when he cuts and isn't as sharp in the hips and ankles as cornerbacks need to be. He wouldn't start on most teams, he wouldn't start on some teams. He's a nickel, and only just one at that. All he has is speed, which though impressive is useless if he can't change direction properly.

He's no where near Richard Marshall who started for us last year when Lucas was injured and didn't give up any touchdowns and scored one himself on an INT return. Which he had 3 of and 11 passes defensed. Marshall is probably already as good if not better than Chris Gamble and people who follow the Panthers are tipping him to beat him out in Training camp.

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See above.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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It's all a anti-Panthers conspiracy, you've found us out.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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No, its just people focus on things that raise their emotions, so if they disagree with something its going to stand out in their mind more than something I've had to say that they agree with.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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So it's the special teams, the safeties and tight end that are so bad that the top CBs, top RBs, top LBs, best player ever can't overcome and win. Those are some bad kickers.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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What? Last time the team had health at those positions we made the NFCCG... Or did you not remember the dozen or so posts where I've detailed the injury list last year, which was 2nd worst in the league?

31st in the league for players missing starts through injury.

If you're going to insult me, at least be smart enough to do your research into what you're going to talk about first.
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Old 06-03-2007, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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I just hope you realize that basically anything less than a Superbowl run is going to make you look very foolish. To be in the upper-tier of almost every category (which you are constantly asserting the Panthers are) would make them an almost indestructable force.
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Old 06-03-2007, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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The Panthers kickers are actually top notch, it's the rest of the special teams that was awful. And yes, they were so hopelessly terrible that it ruined last season (I believe we ranked either last or second to last in both punt and kick returns and that really hurts when you have a field position coach like John Fox). Most of those players are gone now and they'll be replaced by younger, hungrier guys. That's what killed the Panthers most last season IMO. They signed crappy ST vets and cut good young talent like Jarret Bush and Tony Brown. Brown went on to start some games for the Titans and Bush would have been a better option than signing retreads in the middle of the season at CB when Lucas and Gamble went down.

Injuries struck the Panthers hard last year and, aside from Chris Draft and Richard Marshall, everyone who filled in was below average to awful. At their best, the Panther CB trio is exceptional. I don't have a problem with their low ranking, though, because they didn't perform last season. Be it because they weren't playing due to injury, sucked when they played becase of injury (Lucas) or just sucked period (Gamble) they weren't elite last year. They still were pretty good when Dion Byrum and Derrick Strait weren't starting though.

If you guys don't think a team that went 8-8 last year with all the bad luck that befell them isn't a threat that's your perogative. The only reason I don't have more faith in them is because I have no reason to believe mass injuries won't hit them again and Delhomme is a question mark.
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Old 06-03-2007, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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The fact that the Niners are number 1 makes ne a happy man.
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Old 06-03-2007, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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Newman is better than Lito, but I definitely think Sheldon is better than Henry. As for nickelback Aaron is better than James, but James is a former starter who's got good size and should be very solid for us this season. It could go either way, the difference between the two talent wise is marginal either way.
Idk James is pretty good when healthy. Close call, but my homerism takes over and I'd say the Eagles as a group are better than the Cowboys group. Plus, we have Joselio Hansen (who sucks) but hey he did fine vs. #81 ;)
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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I just hope you realize that basically anything less than a Superbowl run is going to make you look very foolish. To be in the upper-tier of almost every category (which you are constantly asserting the Panthers are) would make them an almost indestructable force.
Last time the team was healthy we torched the NFC, including your bears. Since then we've upgraded cornerback, running back linebacker, wide receiver and our defensive and offensive lines and found a legit return man. I expect nothing less than divisonal playoffs this year.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:24 AM    (permalink
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Last time the team was healthy we torched the NFC, including your bears. Since then we've upgraded cornerback, running back linebacker, wide receiver and our defensive and offensive lines and found a legit return man. I expect nothing less than divisonal playoffs this year.

Divisional playoffs? With all this talent claim to have, it's SB or bust, isn't it?
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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Last time the team was healthy we torched the NFC, including your bears. Since then we've upgraded cornerback, running back linebacker, wide receiver and our defensive and offensive lines and found a legit return man. I expect nothing less than divisonal playoffs this year.
You torched the NFC?? You got your asses kicked by the Seahawks. I'm talking at the very least making the Superbowl. Maybe you don't realize how ridiculous you hype up basically every position but 3-4 on the team.
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:26 AM    (permalink
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You torched the NFC?? You got your asses kicked by the Seahawks.
That's the game where peppers, morgan, and our first 5 RBs on the depth chart couldn't play...

Lets see any team win missing those guys.
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:37 AM    (permalink
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That's the game where peppers and our first 5 RBs on the depth chart couldn't play...

Lets see any team win missing those guys.
Morgan doesn't count. He's always hurt
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:42 AM    (permalink
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Technically he's played more games than he's missed, so "always hurt" is a non sequitur, not only that but until last year he'd played two years in a row playing 12+ games including playoffs in 05.

So yes, he does count, especially when he kept Tiki Barber and Jeremy Shockey in Check against new york, helped limit guys like Jones against chicago. Shaun Alexander and Jerramy Stevens had good games against the Panthers in large part because he wasn't there to lead the defense and make plays.

Morgan doesn't count? His injury couldn't have hurt us more.

here's some advice, you might call me a homer, but at least I know what I'm talking about, you're grasping at straws and making it clear you don't.
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Old 06-03-2007, 05:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stl9erfan View Post
The Niners probably are a bit too high... but that said, if we're ranking top trios, SF is going to be in the top five in the NFC, probably top three. The problem last year was that opposing QBs had WAY too long to throw the ball. Nolan's system on D is very advantageous for smart, athletic corners like Harris though, so I wouldn't be too surprised to see a repeat from him. I also wouldn't be too surprised if he gets moved to FS in the next year or two to help prolong his career-- especially if Tarrell Brown stays out of trouble and plays up to his potential.
I'd say even with the two starting corners 49ers are in the top three. Clements is easily one of the top three starting corners in the NFC along with Newman and maybe Al Harris. And Walt Harris was simply the best corner in the NFC west, period (didn't watch enough other NFC games to speak for the rest)... He was great in run support, got a boatload of ints and forced four fumbles, now lets hope he can maintain those numbers with an added pass rush and going against a teams number 2 receiver!

I think Spencer actually had a very inconsistent year last year and really didn't step up the way I thought he would.
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Old 06-03-2007, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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Technically he's played more games than he's missed, so "always hurt" is a non sequitur, not only that but until last year he'd played two years in a row playing 12+ games including playoffs in 05.

So yes, he does count, especially when he kept Tiki Barber and Jeremy Shockey in Check against new york, helped limit guys like Jones against chicago. Shaun Alexander and Jerramy Stevens had good games against the Panthers in large part because he wasn't there to lead the defense and make plays.

Morgan doesn't count? His injury couldn't have hurt us more.

here's some advice, you might call me a homer, but at least I know what I'm talking about, you're grasping at straws and making it clear you don't.
You know what you're talking about? Clearly you really don't since you claim the Panthers have the best at nearly half the positions. Peppers is the best at his position, Smith at his. Dassit. Wow two years in a row for Morgan. New personal record?
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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I'd take Bailey, Bly and Foxworth over the Panthers any day.
The Broncos don't play in the NFC. BlindSite said that the Panthers have the best trio in the NFC.
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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That's the game where peppers, morgan, and our first 5 RBs on the depth chart couldn't play...

Lets see any team win missing those guys.
You're very good at making excuses. It's football, and injuries happen. Stop being a homer that can't admit defeat.
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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That's the game where peppers, morgan, and our first 5 RBs on the depth chart couldn't play...

Lets see any team win missing those guys.
31 teams manage to win without Peppers.
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