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Old 06-13-2007, 01:42 PM    (permalink
VY10
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There is a huge difference between choosing to play high school football and playing college football. In high school you aren't required to pay to attend and you aren't on scholarship in order to afford to go. In university I'd guess that most of the student athletes especially in football and basketball couldn't afford to attend if they didn't play their sport. The NFL also requires that they play college football until their junior year. So the vast majority of college players are forced to accept scholarships and follow the rules.
It is very much like slavery. It may appear to be a comfortable slavery but when a person is denied wages for making a university millions of dollars, it begins to look like a type of slavery when the HC can force a kid to practice, train and play in order to stay in school with only a 60% chance they will ever graduate and that # probably diminishes if you only look only at football and basketball student athletes. Football in particular carries an astounding 10% chance of a serious injury which can effect a person their whole life never mind the back and hip injuries which may not show up for another 20 years as the bones degenerate slowly over time.
What is really disgusting is how the universities have taken advantage of their football and basketball student athletes by increasing the # of games they MUST play to maximize their profits even though they know very well that more games equals a lot more serious injuries. The more tired a player becomes as a season progresses, the more susceptible he becomes to injuries. Longer seasons also mean that student athletes have a far harder time to graduate as they are required to give up even more of their study time for their sport.
The NCAA limits severely how much a student athlete can make in the off season. How many students on scholarship who aren't athletes are told how much they can make in the summer. The restrictions on these kids is unbelievable and demands complete servitude while attending university and that my friend smells a lot like a type of slavery to me.
1. You may be on the wrong message boards if you are anti football because of the injury possibility.

2. If they spend all their time partying and smoking dope and playing with guns they will not graduate. If they hit the books and study - they will. Plain and simple. They are given first class study facilities and tutors. Not graduating is their own fault.

3. I love your argument for them having to play college football until their junior year of college. It seems you don't understand that a college freshman is in no way what so ever prepared to compete in the NFL where everyone is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter. The NFL is infact pretty much the "College All-Star team" for somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years of players. Also should a highschool graduate be employed for a job that they have not had the proper training in? Should doctors and other professions not have to intern and be trained properly in their profession?

4. There are plenty of scholarships and financial aid to go to college. These kids don't have to play football to go to college, they might have to play to go to something above a community college though. It is again their choice, no one is making them play football.

5. Not being able to choose your profession is slavery. Picking cotton until your fingers bleed for 14 hours in the sun against your will is slavery. Being sold away from your family is slavery. Being raped is slavery. Being beat to death is slavery. Football is not that. If you are playing college football chances are you love the sport and love playing - something that can not be said about slavery.

6. If you are OK with players potentially making 80grand for working at a car dealership for the summer well then it is hard to argue with you about the NCAA putting limits on how much they can make. Remember there are boosters who would love to give these kids high paying jobs to come to their schools.

7. How are the number of games increasing. They play a maximum of 13. With way more by weeks than the NFL as well as 3 fewer TOTAL games than just the NFL regular season. This isn't even including the playoffs. D-2 and D-3 have playoffs also. It is only big time college football that DOESN'T have playoffs.

8. Again, maybe you don't understand. THEY DON'T HAVE TO PLAY FOOTBALL. THEY CHOOSE TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

9. It doesn't smell like slavery.

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Old 06-13-2007, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I for a fact know a guy that broke his ankle - foot really badly playing high school football. He has no more cartilage and will walk in pain the rest of his life. I know a guy who tore his meniscus 3 times. I saw 2 ACL tears happen in the same season. Not to mention all the broken arms, hands, fingers, and collar bones. Concussions are also quite common. Don't act like just because it is high-school and not college that bad injuries can't happen.

Of course high school football makes little or no money for their school. They don't have thousands and thousands of alumni that are willing to come and watch them every friday night. They do however generate more revenue than let's say....the girls track team.

College football players can have a job during the entire offseason - same with highschool. Anyways if they are on scholarship - why do they need a job? It isn't like they have to pay their way through school.
I said much LESS likely, not impossible.

The whole argument for paying college athletes is BECAUSE they make so much money for their school.

But the job has to be NCAA approved. You obviously don't know division 1 football players. All I am arguing for is a larger stipend, something that gives them some extra spending money.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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1. You may be on the wrong message boards if you are anti football because of the injury possibility.

2. If they spend all their time partying and smoking dope and playing with guns they will not graduate. If they hit the books and study - they will. Plain and simple. They are given first class study facilities and tutors. Not graduating is their own fault.

3. I love your argument for them having to play college football until their junior year of college. It seems you don't understand that a college freshman is in no way what so ever prepared to compete in the NFL where everyone is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter. The NFL is infact pretty much the "College All-Star team" for somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years of players. Also should a highschool graduate be employed for a job that they have not had the proper training in? Should doctors and other professions not have to intern and be trained properly in their profession?

4. There are plenty of scholarships and financial aid to go to college. These kids don't have to play football to go to college, they might have to play to go to something above a community college though. It is again their choice, no one is making them play football.

5. Not being able to choose your profession is slavery. Picking cotton until your fingers bleed for 14 hours in the sun against your will is slavery. Being sold away from your family is slavery. Being raped is slavery. Being beat to death is slavery. Football is not that. If you are playing college football chances are you love the sport and love playing - something that can not be said about slavery.

6. If you are OK with players potentially making 80grand for working at a car dealership for the summer well then it is hard to argue with you about the NCAA putting limits on how much they can make. Remember there are boosters who would love to give these kids high paying jobs to come to their schools.

7. How are the number of games increasing. They play a maximum of 13. With way more by weeks than the NFL as well as 3 fewer TOTAL games than just the NFL regular season. This isn't even including the playoffs. D-2 and D-3 have playoffs also. It is only big time college football that DOESN'T have playoffs.

8. Again, maybe you don't understand. THEY DON'T HAVE TO PLAY FOOTBALL. THEY CHOOSE TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

9. It doesn't smell like slavery.
1) No one is anti-football

2) Some people aren't cut out for college, regardless of partying. One guy that I played high school with WILL NOT graduate from college, he just isn't smart enough. He had enough trouble graduating in high school.

3) I agree with you on this point.

4) In order to get a well paying job, it is almost a necessity to go to college. Not everyone is capable of getting an academic scholarship, just like not everyone is capable of getting an athletic scholarship.

5) Slavery is a horrible word to use, but there are different types of slavery.

6) Giving athletes more money would cut down on the under the table payments by boosters, or at least the need for them.

7) It used to be they played 10 games plus a bowl game.

8) Way to restate one of your earlier assertions in the form of another bullet.

9) See number 8.

At least you don't seem to be arguing based on jealousy like the last guy.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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1)Yes there are people who are anti football. I know some and don't associate myself with them.

2) If they aren't cut out for college then them not graduating should be expected. It isn't football or anything else that is keeping them from graduating.

4) Yes not everyone is capable of getting scholarships however there is financial aid and there are community college which is a cheap way to go to go to school and acquire hours. (The point is chances are they can go to college and not play football if they want.)

6)That is one way to look at it but the reason boosters give out money is not because the kids "need" it. They give the money to entice the kids to come to the university and to congratulate them on the job they are doing.

7) Now it is 11 + bowl game or 12 + bowl game. Yes I know it is an increase but it is still not near the NFL's 16+Playoffs and there are still more by weeks. The point is if guys who are older take more hits, length of schedule isn't a problem.

8) I apologize - just trying to make my main point that college football is in fact not like slavery.

-Thank you. I am arguing the point of the thread and mainly that football is not slavery. Yes they do not get "paid" for the money that the team brings in for the university but they are given the ability, whether they take advantage of it or not, to become an NFL player or pursue a different profession. In my mind that is plenty of compensation considering the tuition of many colleges today.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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1)Yes there are people who are anti football. I know some and don't associate myself with them.

2) If they aren't cut out for college then them not graduating should be expected. It isn't football or anything else that is keeping them from graduating.

4) Yes not everyone is capable of getting scholarships however there is financial aid and there are community college which is a cheap way to go to go to school and acquire hours. (The point is chances are they can go to college and not play football if they want.)

6)That is one way to look at it but the reason boosters give out money is not because the kids "need" it. They give the money to entice the kids to come to the university and to congratulate them on the job they are doing.

7) Now it is 11 + bowl game or 12 + bowl game. Yes I know it is an increase but it is still not near the NFL's 16+Playoffs and there are still more by weeks. The point is if guys who are older take more hits, length of schedule isn't a problem.

8) I apologize - just trying to make my main point that college football is in fact not like slavery.

-Thank you. I am arguing the point of the thread and mainly that football is not slavery. Yes they do not get "paid" for the money that the team brings in for the university but they are given the ability, whether they take advantage of it or not, to become an NFL player or pursue a different profession. In my mind that is plenty of compensation considering the tuition of many colleges today.
Way to take my quote completely out of context. This is a football website, obviously none of us are antifootball.

The NFL players get paid very, very good, college players, not so much.

I guess need is the wrong word for it, but paying the athletes a set amount will cut down on the boosters needing to entice them to come to the school through money.

No, but the football sure does take up a lot of time, so the people that are borderline will have a very, very hard time graduating.

Community college, or USC? Which one looks better? I am not even asking for them to be paid a lot, just a few hundred a month larger stipend.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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And how much is USC tuition....
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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Trust me, what they get paid is not enough for what they do. I roomed with 4 UTEP players this past year, 2 have had knee surgery(one of them twice), and one is well on his way to needing it. Tell me what the violinist has to worry about that will affect his/her life after football? I understand not wanting to give them a salary, but a larger stipend would sure help them out.

Like I said they are gone 9am-6pm with very little breaks in between. Having class, then they go eat, then lift, then meetings, then practice, then the linemen had some more meetings. They get a small stipend now, but they need to give them a larger one.

Or how about give all athletes at each division the same amount, regardless of the sport or production. I haven't been an athlete yet(NEXT YEAR!!) and I haven't taken more than 12 hours a semester. That is considered a full time student, so the athletes shouldn't have to take any more than that, which, SUPRISE!!! is the rule. Leinhart was an exception, because he had already graduated, so he didn't have other classes to take.

Everyone is up in arms about Oden's schedule, but every one of his classes are required classes. It looked an awful lot like my schedule my freshman year.
By these statements then, High School football players should be paid as well due to the fact that they could suffer career ending injuries.
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Old 06-15-2007, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Most of you are caught up in the hype about college football and maybe still attend college yourselves. Not only do only 60% of student athletes graduate, the pressure of their commitment to their sport which requires so many hours a day for practice, training, injury recovery etc. etc. makes it almost impossible for a student athlete in either college football or basketball to take anything approaching a serious course from which top paying jobs are obtained. You are not going to find too many student athletes taking pre-med, MBA's or law, there are only a very few capable of getting these degrees and playing college sports. Most of your student athletes in football and basketball come from dirt poor families and there is NO option but to accept a university scholarship to get from under their poverty. There is no other option for them.
Let's take a look at college football and it's 13 or 14 games schedule. Using a 13 game schedule, a college football player is asked to play an 81% schedule of an NFL player, a college basketball player is asked to play around a 41.6% of an NBA schedule. It is very similar in other college sports where they play under 50% of what a pro plays, however in football, they are playing very close to a pro schedule, WHY!!! The colleges know injuries occur at a greater rate the more games you play and yet the colleges keep increasing the # of games a team plays per year. The colleges also know that graduation rates suffer when you add games to the schedule as the student athletes have far less time to study. Yet they go on adding games ignoring the injuries and the graduation affects on their student athletes, so why do they do it, MONEY!!! They have realized that these student athletes are trapped in a system where they have no say, so they have set out to maximize their profits no matter what the effect on the student athlete.
When you trap people in a system based on a free education and the very small likelihood of a pro career but only graduate 60%, mostly in very minor majors, ignore the many injuries that occur and put your athletes under extreme duress in order to have any chance of passing even though you know these are the weakest students on campus, then the word 'Slavery' doesn't seem out of place. Off of these athletes backs, the Universities are generating hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue enough today, to pay their football HC's similar money to a pro HC while the players are kept in servitude playing for a pittance of what their work generates in revenue.
It's time to end this disgusting system and pay the student athlete a fair compensation for what they do. There should be a restriction on the # of games you can ask a student athlete to play in order to minimize injuries and a student athlete should be recognized as an employee of the schools they attend so they are eligible for health benefits should they get injured. They currently have no access to health benifits from long term injuries under state law.
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