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Old 06-26-2007, 12:29 PM    (permalink
MasterShake
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
I saw somewhere that the Seahawks were upset with Darrell Jackson and the 49'rs are the same way.

"Darrell Jackson, WR, San Francisco

Sure, he fills a hole, but if he were all that valuable, do you think Seattle would've given up on him? When I visited the Seahawks last summer, coaches were frustrated trying to get him on the field. I think the same thing will happen in San Francisco. Jackson is talented; he's just not tough. "

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10234368

So the post proves you right, I read it wrong.

I just don't think Jackson is a good receiver, I've never liked him at receiver and I don't think he will do good there.

Ahhhh...I see this has been addressed.
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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In terms of production, i guess the list is Okay...but in terms of the actual better player...the list is way off....
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I personally think Santonio Holmes is going to outperform Hines Ward this year.
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Driver ahead of walker....LOL


when walker was on the packers he was their number one
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by iloxygenil View Post
Blatant Homerism...you are bashing Boldin (who if I'm not mistaken was what, 2nd in the league in receptions 2 years ago, and was over 1200 yards last year...) Moss, who is arguably still the best WR in the game, and is whenever he wants to prove a point, lets hope he doesn't up in NE, Walker who even after a knee injury had nearly 1100 yards teaming with a rookie QB most of the way, Driver, who is one of the hardest workers in the NFL and constantly is putting up stats that no one should scoff at. I mean Holt had a good year last year for a bad team, and has been consistent, but at some point his production has to drop off, he's getting up there in terms of a WR. 9 years in the league already. Not saying he's not a very solid WR, but he's not someone who's going to get a lot of praise anymore because of his team.

He's still a solid player and really one of the better WRs in the league, but I think after you look at his last 4 years of production, it's hard to believe he can put those numbers up again...
Blatant homerism? That's why several non-Rams fans have said Holt is far too low. That is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here, and there have been some doozies.

First off, I think the phrase you were looking for was "his last 7 years of production", or his entire career besides rookie year. So I am not sure why he wouldn't continue to put up the production that he has always done. Secondly, I'm not sure why his team has anything to do with him getting praise, unless its simply that St.Louis is not a media magnet. I am also not sure if you are familiar with the WR position, but the great ones play well into their 30's. Holt just turned 31 on June 5 and has 8 years experience. Harrison- 34 with 11 years experience, Driver- 32 with 8 years experience, TO- 33 with 11 years experience, Moss- 30 wiith 9 years experience. So yeah, obviously Holt is a fossil compared to those guys. Just because you have seen him going crazy on the Cardinals 2 times a year since the realignment doesn't mean you have to be an unabashed hater.

Reverse Homerism- irrational hatred and disrespect of your most hated team's players

I never "bashed" Anquan Boldin, in fact I really like him. But you are out of your mind if you think he is better than Holt outright or that he will have a better statistical year. The Rams offense clearly did not start clicking until half way through the year and Holt still had 10 more catches, 15 less yards, and 10 TD's to Boldin's 4. On top of that, the Rams QB is a top 5 guy and the offense is totally solid for this upcoming season, the Cards QB is Leinart and their O-line is far from great, so the production angle doesn't add up either.

I don't have to even really try to shoot holes in your Moss love affair. Here's something for you, 42, 60, 49.......you know what those are, Moss's receptions the past three seasons. Moss was such an incredible WR because he was a freak of nature. He has never run great routes, is not a hard worker, hesitant in the middle of the field, has recently developed a dropping problem, and the worst thing of all for a guy that was great because he was a freak......he has lost a step.

As for Walker, yes I must truly be insane to think Holt is better and will be more productive. Let's take a look. Walker- 69 catches, 1084 yards, 8 TD's. Holt- 93 catches, 1188 yards, 10 TD's. Oh, and Holt has had more than 2 good seasons, in fact he has had 7 great ones, but I forgot he is a 31 year old fossil. Now that we can see that Holt is clearly better outright, lets look from a production standpoint. I'll just use your same argument against you, Walker has a largely unproven Cutler throwing to him.

Now for Driver, first off I never scoffed at him, or any of these WR's. In fact, they are all great WR's. But, the bottomline is that Holt has had six seasons better than Driver's best.

Just so everyone knows, I am not bashing these WR's. I would love for the Rams to have any of them besides maybe Moss because of the issues. They are all clearly among the best in the league, but Holt simply better.
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Roy Williams getting some love I like it.
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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fitz and holt are WAY TO LOW...
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Acreboy View Post
PAY ATTENTION. It goes by what he thinks the guys will produce not how they're ranked according to talent.

Geez.

Roy-1310 yards

Holt-1188

Roy wins.

I know... so because Roy has more yarsd than him one year means hes going to next year? Holt had more TDs than him, you failed to mention that. I he had more catches than him too. Torry wins
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Having Torry Holt that low is a crime.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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I personally think Santonio Holmes is going to outperform Hines Ward this year.

as do i but in all honestly hines is the better complete reciever but holmes is way more explosive.

but i dont think hines is the 23rd best reciever in the league. easily top 15. and at one time top 7
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I know... so because Roy has more yarsd than him one year means hes going to next year? Holt had more TDs than him, you failed to mention that. I he had more catches than him too. Torry wins
I think it's hard to argue that Torry Holt is a better receiver than Roy Williams at this point in their careers. Holt is good but Williams is is one of the best in the league and is just reaching his prime where as Holt is going to begin to fall off.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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I think it's hard to argue that Torry Holt is a better receiver than Roy Williams at this point in their careers. Holt is good but Williams is is one of the best in the league and is just reaching his prime where as Holt is going to begin to fall off.
How about a compromise, both are solid receivers who produce and any team would be lucky to have them.
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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I think it's hard to argue that Torry Holt is a better receiver than Roy Williams at this point in their careers. Holt is good but Williams is is one of the best in the league and is just reaching his prime where as Holt is going to begin to fall off.
What in the crap is up with people thinking that Holt is over the hill, past his prime, and going to start to tail off. He is 31 years old for christ's sake. Harrison is 34 and TO is 33 and nobody even mentions their ages when talking about them. I am starting to think that Holt is the most disrespected player in football. It's not that surprising seeing as Bulger is the most underrated QB in the league, Leonard Little is a perennial Probowl snub, and people seem to want to start to dig Bruce's grave because he is........OMG 34!!!!!! At the end of his career Holt could be argued as the best WR of all time. One would lose that argument because it is Rice, but one could think of Holt as the best ever and not be considered a total moron. Holt turned 31 on June 5th, 31 years old is during a WR's prime, and Holt is the kind of WR that will age gracefully like Harrison because he runs possibly the best routes in the league, has sure hands, and is a smart player. Holt is going to remain among the top 5 productive WR's for probably 5 years to come. People just get so anxious to annoint the next generation of superstars. You know why the current superstars are considered superstars, because they have proven they are.
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Driver ahead of walker....LOL


when walker was on the packers he was their number one
for only one season.
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I think a lot of us will agree that Driver is about 5 slots too high...not just the vikings and bears fans.
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Blatant homerism? That's why several non-Rams fans have said Holt is far too low. That is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here, and there have been some doozies.

First off, I think the phrase you were looking for was "his last 7 years of production", or his entire career besides rookie year. So I am not sure why he wouldn't continue to put up the production that he has always done. Secondly, I'm not sure why his team has anything to do with him getting praise, unless its simply that St.Louis is not a media magnet. I am also not sure if you are familiar with the WR position, but the great ones play well into their 30's. Holt just turned 31 on June 5 and has 8 years experience. Harrison- 34 with 11 years experience, Driver- 32 with 8 years experience, TO- 33 with 11 years experience, Moss- 30 wiith 9 years experience. So yeah, obviously Holt is a fossil compared to those guys. Just because you have seen him going crazy on the Cardinals 2 times a year since the realignment doesn't mean you have to be an unabashed hater.

Reverse Homerism- irrational hatred and disrespect of your most hated team's players

I never "bashed" Anquan Boldin, in fact I really like him. But you are out of your mind if you think he is better than Holt outright or that he will have a better statistical year. The Rams offense clearly did not start clicking until half way through the year and Holt still had 10 more catches, 15 less yards, and 10 TD's to Boldin's 4. On top of that, the Rams QB is a top 5 guy and the offense is totally solid for this upcoming season, the Cards QB is Leinart and their O-line is far from great, so the production angle doesn't add up either.

I don't have to even really try to shoot holes in your Moss love affair. Here's something for you, 42, 60, 49.......you know what those are, Moss's receptions the past three seasons. Moss was such an incredible WR because he was a freak of nature. He has never run great routes, is not a hard worker, hesitant in the middle of the field, has recently developed a dropping problem, and the worst thing of all for a guy that was great because he was a freak......he has lost a step.

As for Walker, yes I must truly be insane to think Holt is better and will be more productive. Let's take a look. Walker- 69 catches, 1084 yards, 8 TD's. Holt- 93 catches, 1188 yards, 10 TD's. Oh, and Holt has had more than 2 good seasons, in fact he has had 7 great ones, but I forgot he is a 31 year old fossil. Now that we can see that Holt is clearly better outright, lets look from a production standpoint. I'll just use your same argument against you, Walker has a largely unproven Cutler throwing to him.

Now for Driver, first off I never scoffed at him, or any of these WR's. In fact, they are all great WR's. But, the bottomline is that Holt has had six seasons better than Driver's best.

Just so everyone knows, I am not bashing these WR's. I would love for the Rams to have any of them besides maybe Moss because of the issues. They are all clearly among the best in the league, but Holt simply better.
Moss really hasn't lost a step...did you not hear what he was running 40s in? I mean lets be real hear. You guys all hate on randy because he has a poor attitude, that's right, but who in the world better to fix that than his current coach? Randy is older now, and has something to prove again, he'll work hard and get balls thrown near him that he can go after. You call out Randy's reception numbers...why don't you go back and look at the offensive woes that the Raiders had...lets be real, that's foolish. Randy's talent is still immense and just because you think he's lost a step because he's running low 4.3 / high 4.2 40s (reportedly) completely discredits you.

To say Holt is better is your opinion, yeah he's had a lot of success, but these are projections...they happen EVERY year, it's all hogwash til the season is here, but the projections are just fine imo, because none of them are going to even be close to what they are, but all of his selections are arguable in their position.

As far as Boldin goes...he's the closest thing to Jerry Rice the NFL has seen since...Jerry Rice. He doesn't have great timed speed, but no one on the field is going to run him down, he's tough, and doesn't drop the ball, period. I'd take Boldin over Holt any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. Your argument against Boldin is against the Cards...not Boldin himself...and that's fine, but it's weak to not realize it took Holt 10 more catches to gain LESS yards than Boldin and yeah, he had more TDs...so what...who else is really on his team? He's going to get 100% of the redzone looks that don't end up in Jackson's hands. Boldin has to share with Fitz...another wonderful WR.
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Old 06-26-2007, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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What in the crap is up with people thinking that Holt is over the hill, past his prime, and going to start to tail off. He is 31 years old for christ's sake. Harrison is 34 and TO is 33 and nobody even mentions their ages when talking about them. I am starting to think that Holt is the most disrespected player in football. It's not that surprising seeing as Bulger is the most underrated QB in the league, Leonard Little is a perennial Probowl snub, and people seem to want to start to dig Bruce's grave because he is........OMG 34!!!!!! At the end of his career Holt could be argued as the best WR of all time. One would lose that argument because it is Rice, but one could think of Holt as the best ever and not be considered a total moron. Holt turned 31 on June 5th, 31 years old is during a WR's prime, and Holt is the kind of WR that will age gracefully like Harrison because he runs possibly the best routes in the league, has sure hands, and is a smart player. Holt is going to remain among the top 5 productive WR's for probably 5 years to come. People just get so anxious to annoint the next generation of superstars. You know why the current superstars are considered superstars, because they have proven they are.

i was with u till this one...holt will never get into a discussion as the best ever.
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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I think a lot of us will agree that Driver is about 5 slots too high...not just the vikings and bears fans.
he in the top 7 and also he doesn't make the crazy money that these guys do.
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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he in the top 7 and also he doesn't make the crazy money that these guys do.



so because hes underpaid means hes better than the people ahead of him?
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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so because hes underpaid means hes better than the people ahead of him?
whats stops him from being top 7? just because he not known by alot of people, he not a first round pick. Face it he good but I didn't say he is better then anyone on that list. Firtz should be ahead but putting names like Walker ahead of him is bull.
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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whats stops him from being top 7? just because he not known by alot of people, he not a first round pick. Face it he good but I didn't say he is better then anyone on that list. Firtz should be ahead but putting names like Walker ahead of him is bull.
you could definetly make an argument for putting Walker ahead of him. They had similar numbers last year other than receptions, and he had Jake freakin Plummer throwing to him.

I would put Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, and Terrell Owens ahead of him. that would make him 10th
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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for only one season.
ok...but walker when he was healthy eas a top10-top 5 WR he was a monster pre-leg break with the packers...and he has shown his form again, and with a QB that can actually throw the ball he will be better then he ever was and could have a 1300+ yard season
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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you could definetly make an argument for putting Walker ahead of him. They had similar numbers last year other than receptions, and he had Jake freakin Plummer throwing to him.

I would put Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, and Terrell Owens ahead of him. that would make him 10th
ok but Jennings was out for 4 games and we had no running game. Driver has been the main guy from the day Walker broke his leg and when we had a healthy Walker. Even though he covered by 2-3 people he still manges to put up 1000 yards a season. Walker had the benefit of playing with Rod Smith, soiled running game, and Williams. What more can you ask for. (even though i miss him.)


Where did you get that Driver had similar numbers to Walker?
Driver had 92 rec 1295 yards 8 TDs
Walker had 68 rec 1084 yards 8 TDs
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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ok but Jennings was out for 4 games and we had no running game. Driver has been the main guy from the day Walker broke his leg and when we had a healthy Walker. Even though he covered by 2-3 people he still manges to put up 1000 yards a season. Walker had the benefit of playing with Rod Smith, soiled running game, and Williams. What more can you ask for. (even though i miss him.)


Where did you get that Driver had similar numbers to Walker?
Driver had 92 rec 1295 yards 8 TDs
Walker had 68 rec 1084 yards 8 TDs


first of all, Williams? who is that? Rod Smith is nothing to write home about anymore. And I said they were similar other than receptions, which they are. Equal touchdowns and a 200 yard difference which would have been erased if he had a better QB.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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first of all, Williams? who is that? Rod Smith is nothing to write home about anymore. And I said they were similar other than receptions, which they are. Equal touchdowns and a 200 yard difference which would have been erased if he had a better QB.
my bad i mean Brandon Marshall. Rod Smith will still get defense's attention even at his age because they know he still a threat.
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