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Old 06-27-2007, 04:19 PM    (permalink
reese
 
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Originally Posted by HinesWardJr View Post
agreed and i think hines should be higher too and at least santonio to be on the list as well

but thats the homer in me
i dont think big ben is good enuf to have 2 guys in the top 25 stat wise...
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
Those numbers look damn good to me other than his first 2 years when he was adjusting to the pro game and the year where he played one game. When hes healthy he is at the very least a top 5 receiver.
So you are basically looking at three seasons. Two good ones and one great one. Look at the stats of these guys over that same time span. They are better or at least rival Smith's.

CJ
YEAR TEAM ......G .......REC .....YDS .......AVG ......TD
2001 CIN .........12 .......28 ......329 .......11.8 .......1
2002 CIN .........16 .......69 .....1166 ......16.9 .......5
2003 CIN .........16....... 90 .....1355 ......15.1...... 10
2004 CIN .........16....... 95 .....1274...... 13.4 .......9
2005 CIN .........16 .......97 ....1432 .......14.8 .......9
2006 CIN .........16 .......87 ....1369 .......15.7 .......7
Career ............92 ......466.... 6925 .......14.9 ......41

Harrison
YEAR TEAM ......G .......REC ....YDS ........AVG ......TD
2001 IND .........16 .....109 ....1524 ........14.0 ......15
2002 IND .........16 .....143 ....1722 ........12.0 ......11
2003 IND .........15 ......94..... 1272 .......13.5 .......10
2004 IND .........16 ......86 .....1113....... 12.9 .......15
2005 IND .........15 ......82 .....1146 .......14.0 .......12
2006 IND .........16 ......95 .....1366 .......14.4....... 12
Career ...........170 ...1022 ....13697 ......13.4 ......122

Wayne
YEAR TEAM ......G ....REC ......YDS ........AVG .......TD
2001 IND........ 13 ....27 ........345 .........12.8....... 0
2002 IND ........16 ....49 ........716 .........14.6....... 4
2003 IND ........16 ....68 ........838 .........12.3 .......7
2004 IND ........16 ....77........ 1210 .......15.7 ......12
2005 IND ........16.... 83 ........1055 .......12.7 .......5
2006 IND........ 16 ....86........ 1310 .......15.2....... 9
Career ...........93 ....390 .......5474 .......14.0 ......37

Holt
YEAR TEAM .....G .....REC .......YDS .......AVG ......TD
2001 STL .......16 . ...81 .......1363 .......16.8....... 7
2002 STL .......16 ....91 ........1302 .......14.3 .......4
2003 STL ......16..... 117 ......1696 .......14.5 ......12
2004 STL ......16 .....94 ........1372 .......14.6 ......10
2005 STL ......14..... 102 .......1331 ......13.0....... 9
2006 STL ......16 .....93 ........1188 ......12.8 .......10
Career. ........ 126... 712 .....10675 ......15.0....... 64

Owens
YEAR TEAM ....G .....REC .......YDS .......AVG .......TD
2001 SFO......16..... 93 ........1412 ......15.2 ....... 16
2002 SF........14 ....100 .......1300 .......13.0 ...... 13
2003 SF ........15 ....80 ........1102...... 13.8 ....... 9
2004 PHI .......14 ....77 ........1200 ......15.6 ....... 14
2005 PHI .......7 .....47......... 763 .......16.2 .......6
2006 DAL...... 16.....85... .....1180 ......13.9 ........13
Career .........158... 801 .......11715.....14.6........ 114

Now Smith's
YEAR TEAM .... G .... REC .... YDS ...... AVG.........TD
2001 CAR .... 15 .... 10 ....... 154 ...... 15.4 ........0
2002 CAR .... 15 .... 54 ....... 872 ...... 16.1 ........3
2003 CAR .... 16 .... 88 ....... 1110 .... 12.6 .........7
2004 CAR .... 1 ....... 6 ....... 60 ........ 10.0 ........0
2005 CAR .... 16 .... 103 ..... 1563 ..... 15.2 ........12
2006 CAR .... 14 .... 83 ....... 1166 ..... 14.0 ........8
Career ........ 77 .... 344 ..... 4925 ..... 14.3.........30

Just compare the stats people. Smith is an excellent WR, but he is not the definite number one WR in the league. I would personally put him in the top 5 with Holt, Harrison, CJ, and hmmm the last spot is open for debate in my mind. I just wish people would do some research to support what they say instead of just spouting off the same recycled material they read on some sports site or saw on ESPN.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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When healthy, the past two years, Steve has been the most dangerous WR in the NFL. You cannot simply use stats as the sole measure in which to quantify players in the NFL.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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When healthy, the past two years, Steve has been the most dangerous WR in the NFL. You cannot simply use stats as the sole measure in which to quantify players in the NFL.
Yes stats cannot be the sole indicator, but six seasons is a fairly large sampling. It would be different to make rankings solely based on last season or something. In the words of Homer Simpson, "OHH!!!!! SO NOW WE'RE JUDGING EACH OTHER ON THINGS WE'VE DONE!!!!!! GREAT!!! REAL FAIR!!!! CLASS ACT!!!!"..............which is how a lot of people on these boards act.
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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If anything I think Lee Evans should be higher.
agreed.

Ward and Holmes shouldn't be higher IMO.


nfrillman, what are u arguing and with whom. I'm sure most agree with u that Holt is a top tier WR, and i'd be shocked if people argued that. i'd also say that Smith is a top tier WR, and i'd doubt people would argue that. Who is better may depend on who there playing that week and if they have injuries. both guys need to be accounted for, although for different reasons because of their different abilities. one flaw i see on Smith is that he tends to get nicked up a little more than Holt does
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nfrillman View Post
Yes stats cannot be the sole indicator, but six seasons is a fairly large sampling. It would be different to make rankings solely based on last season or something. In the words of Homer Simpson, "OHH!!!!! SO NOW WE'RE JUDGING EACH OTHER ON THINGS WE'VE DONE!!!!!! GREAT!!! REAL FAIR!!!! CLASS ACT!!!!"..............which is how a lot of people on these boards act.
I don't care what happened five or six years ago. In the 'here and now,' based solely on the past two years, Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL now.
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't care what happened five or six years ago. In the 'here and now,' based solely on the past two years, Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL now.
its arguable...but i dont think its smith its def. between Harrison, Holt, Johnson, Owens
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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also aside from owens...all those players have much better qbs then smith and the colts/rams have pass 1st offenses so of course there numbers will be better
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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I find it odd that with the way this board was hyping up Calvin Johnson before the draft, that you people are suddenly upset that someone thinks he will be the 20th most productive WR in the NFL next year. You guys do remember that this is the same guy that you hyped up as the second coming of Christ. I believe some people on here gave him the nickname "CJesus."

Ok, so the WR with the 20th most catches in the NFL last year had 70. The WR with the 20th most yards last year had 988. The WR with the 20th most TD had 6 TD. A line of: 70 rec, 988 yds, and 6 TD doesn't seem like it is too ridiculous for a guy of his talent playing in a Mike Martz style offense. You know, the same offense that freakin' Mike Furrey had about 100 rec, 1100 yds, and 6 TD in.

Now I can't say for sure if the two or three people who ridiculed the author for placing Calvin at #20 were guys who hyped him up or not. But even regardless if they were or not, those numbers that I posted don't seem that ridiculous for Calvin to get. Regardless of what his completion percentage is or how many INT he throws, you can expect probably 4000 yards and 20-25 TD from Jon Kitna in the Mike Martz offense. With Calvin being the #2 WR for the Lions, you have to expect that he gets a decent sized chunk of that.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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I find it odd that with the way this board was hyping up Calvin Johnson before the draft, that you people are suddenly upset that someone thinks he will be the 20th most productive WR in the NFL next year. You guys do remember that this is the same guy that you hyped up as the second coming of Christ. I believe some people on here gave him the nickname "CJesus."

Ok, so the WR with the 20th most catches in the NFL last year had 70. The WR with the 20th most yards last year had 988. The WR with the 20th most TD had 6 TD. A line of: 70 rec, 988 yds, and 6 TD doesn't seem like it is too ridiculous for a guy of his talent playing in a Mike Martz style offense. You know, the same offense that freakin' Mike Furrey had about 100 rec, 1100 yds, and 6 TD in.

Now I can't say for sure if the two or three people who ridiculed the author for placing Calvin at #20 were guys who hyped him up or not. But even regardless if they were or not, those numbers that I posted don't seem that ridiculous for Calvin to get. Regardless of what his completion percentage is or how many INT he throws, you can expect probably 4000 yards and 20-25 TD from Jon Kitna in the Mike Martz offense. With Calvin being the #2 WR for the Lions, you have to expect that he gets a decent sized chunk of that.
I was one of the people who said Johnson being on this list is ridiculous. I thought Johnson was a great prospect (one of the best WR prospects of all-time) but I don't think he's going to be all-that the second he steps on the field. Putting him ahead of guys who are proven stars to me is just stupid. That's not to say he won't be good next year, but I would not put him on a top 25 list of WRs at this point.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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I don't care what happened five or six years ago. In the 'here and now,' based solely on the past two years, Steve Smith is the best WR in the NFL now.


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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
its arguable...but i dont think its smith its def. between Harrison, Holt, Johnson, Owens
Thank you Bronco56. That is all I am trying to say. The "experts" seem to annoint Smith as the best WR in the NFL, the public never questions it, and then they put him at the tops of their lists because they were told to do so. The stats do not back up that Smith is clearly the best WR. It is debatable between Smith, Harrison, Holt, Johnson, and Owens. Just as I previously stated.

Shiver, statistically the past two years do not back up the statement that Smith is OBVIOUSLY the best WR. The past two seasons argument is pretty weak too, because by that logic Smith has virtually zero chance of being the best WR in the NFL this time next year because his 1500 yard, 100 catch, 12 TD season will be replaced by his 83 catch, 1166 yard, 8 TD performance last year. Meaning that he will have to have any enormous year to make up for being outperformed by others last year. He is certainly in the discussion for best WR, but it's not clear cut.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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I was one of the people who said Johnson being on this list is ridiculous. I thought Johnson was a great prospect (one of the best WR prospects of all-time) but I don't think he's going to be all-that the second he steps on the field. Putting him ahead of guys who are proven stars to me is just stupid. That's not to say he won't be good next year, but I would not put him on a top 25 list of WRs at this point.
You do realize that the author specified that his list was based on how he thought they would do this coming season? If you do, that's fine. I respect your opinion. But I personally don't think him putting up those numbers is that "ridiculous" and I'm not half as high on him as everyone else is. Looking at the numbers that guys like Kevin Curtis, Shaun McDonald, and more recently Mike Furrey put up in Martz's offense makes me believe that Johnson can achieve the kind of numbers I posted.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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To anyone saying Clayton should not be on the list remember this, Clayton is catching passes from Steve McNair who can't throw the ball longer than 15 yards. Clayton with Kyle at QB or any QB who could throw downfield would have had much bigger numbers last year.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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How could you put roy williams and TO in front of Andre Johnson??? It could be a toss up between Andre Johnson and Roy Williams but TO should not be in the top ten... And Randy Moss before Reggie Wayne, what is that???? How many of ya'll would rather have Randy Moss over Reggie Wayne???

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Old 06-27-2007, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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How could you put roy williams and TO in front of Andre Johnson??? It could be a toss up between Andre Johnson and Roy Williams but TO should not be in the top ten... And Randy Moss before Reggie Wayne, what is that???? How many of ya'll would rather have Randy Moss over Reggie Wayne???
last time im saying it, quote me on that

this is a list on how the writer from SI thinks the WRs will do next year

He thinks Moss will be a top 10 WR next year off stats, TO and Roy ahead of Andre Johnson

its not how good he is now..or how good hes been. Its about this upcoming season. EXPECTATIONS if u will
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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How could you put roy williams and TO in front of Andre Johnson???

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last time im saying it, quote me on that

this is a list on how the writer from SI thinks the WRs will do next year

He thinks Moss will be a top 10 WR next year off stats, TO and Roy ahead of Andre Johnson

its not how good he is now..or how good hes been. Its about this upcoming season. EXPECTATIONS if u will
That is how.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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That is how.
haha man im ready to blow up.

WHOOOOOSAH

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Old 06-27-2007, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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haha man im ready to blow up.

WHOOOOOSAH

breathe IN. breathe OUT. slowwwwww
this reminds me when i first came here and people would say Craig Nall is better then Brett Favre and for some reason they would get under my skin. (yourfavrester and shiver). Then i joined that chatroom we had and I got banned because i would get into fights with them.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that the author specified that his list was based on how he thought they would do this coming season? If you do, that's fine. I respect your opinion. But I personally don't think him putting up those numbers is that "ridiculous" and I'm not half as high on him as everyone else is. Looking at the numbers that guys like Kevin Curtis, Shaun McDonald, and more recently Mike Furrey put up in Martz's offense makes me believe that Johnson can achieve the kind of numbers I posted.
I would never put stock into a rookie being the 20th best receiver in the league. To me, that's just a bad prediction because rookie receivers generally have a tough time.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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this reminds me when i first came here and people would say Craig Nall is better then Brett Favre and for some reason they would get under my skin. (yourfavrester and shiver). Then i joined that chatroom we had and I got banned because i would get into fights with them.
No reason to get upset by it. Craig Nall is by far the superior QB.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by remix 6 View Post
last time im saying it, quote me on that

this is a list on how the writer from SI thinks the WRs will do next year

He thinks Moss will be a top 10 WR next year off stats, TO and Roy ahead of Andre Johnson

its not how good he is now..or how good hes been. Its about this upcoming season. EXPECTATIONS if u will


YES! We are aware. I dont get your point. We cant disagree with his expectations?
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:08 PM    (permalink
JT Jag
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this reminds me when i first came here and people would say Craig Nall is better then Brett Favre and for some reason they would get under my skin. (yourfavrester and shiver). Then i joined that chatroom we had and I got banned because i would get into fights with them.
Brett who?
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MJD is an exception to every rule.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:17 PM    (permalink
49ersfan_87
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
If anything I think Lee Evans should be higher.
Lee Evans is one of my favorite current players and i think he is going to do great this year. Last year he really broke out and i think he is going to get better and become a truly elite receiver in the NFL.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:31 PM    (permalink
remix 6
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
YES! We are aware. I dont get your point. We cant disagree with his expectations?
no, u dont get the point

why are people bringing up stats and saying: no way this guy is a top 5-10 WR anymore

u dont need to be the best WR to put up the best stats. not every WR gets the same opportunity
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Old 06-27-2007, 11:22 PM    (permalink
Acreboy
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Originally Posted by remix 6 View Post
no, u dont get the point

why are people bringing up stats and saying: no way this guy is a top 5-10 WR anymore

u dont need to be the best WR to put up the best stats. not every WR gets the same opportunity
STOP. Save yourself the high BP.
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