Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2007, 08:13 AM    (permalink
tylerb929
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 386
Reputation: 1030
tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damix View Post
I'm not sure this has to do with his DUI, he can't be punished if he wasn't charged with it, which he wasn't.
He can be punished if he wasn't charged, this has been gone over many of times. The NFL is a private organization, and can do as it pleases if it thinks he is causing a bad image.

2nd of all, he was charged, Rhodes pleaded guilty in March to reckless driving and was sentenced to 180 days in jail. But 178 were suspended and he received credit for two days.
tylerb929 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 08:15 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerb929 View Post
He can be punished if he wasn't charged, this has been gone over many of times. The NFL is a private organization, and can do as it pleases if it thinks he is causing a bad image.
Why is it the employer's responsibility to tell its employees how to act on their free time? Better yet, why does the employer feel as though it's their responsibility to do so?
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 10:34 AM    (permalink
tylerb929
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 386
Reputation: 1030
tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.tylerb929 is a cocksman.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Why is it the employer's responsibility to tell its employees how to act on their free time? Better yet, why does the employer feel as though it's their responsibility to do so?
Did I say I agreed with it? No, but its how it works.
tylerb929 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 10:58 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerb929 View Post
Did I say I agreed with it? No, but its how it works.
The question wasn't really aimed at you. It's more of a general question to the supporters of the new conduct policy.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 10:58 AM    (permalink
CC.SD
Shock Therapist
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,475
Reputation: 1827586
CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Why is it the employer's responsibility to tell its employees how to act on their free time? Better yet, why does the employer feel as though it's their responsibility to do so?
Because in a mass media, spectacle driven enterprise like professional football, image is everything. If a player looks bad, the franchise loses money, so it becomes their responsibility to make sure these guys don't embarass their team.
CC.SD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 11:19 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChargerCohen View Post
Because in a mass media, spectacle driven enterprise like professional football, image is everything. If a player looks bad, the franchise loses money, so it becomes their responsibility to make sure these guys don't embarass their team.
Which is why the NBA was successful long before the implementation of their conduct policy, and viewership declined as the quality of their product deteriorated? Conduct policies in professional sports step into the boundaries of the rights to privacy and self expression. Players have morals clauses in their contracts, and can be fired by their individual employers for incidents that they deem to be too big of a PR nightmare to retain the player. If the team thinks a player has done something aggregious enough, they will take their own action against the player (see: Albert Haynesworth). There's absolutely no reason for the NFL to step in on an issue like this.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 11:20 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
ah. yes. so, if i get a DUI during my free time, my work shouldn't be able to fire me, even though such a problem would prevent me from being able to do my job. but you think that because it happened during my free time, they shouldn't have any recourse whatsoever and should be forced to continue to pay me until such time as i was able to work again.

that's utterly asinine.
Oakland is free to fire him if they feel that doing so is the best course of action. Why should the NFL suspend him?
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 11:31 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
ah. yes. so, if i get a DUI during my free time, my work shouldn't be able to fire me, even though such a problem would prevent me from being able to do my job. but you think that because it happened during my free time, they shouldn't have any recourse whatsoever and should be forced to continue to pay me until such time as i was able to work again.

that's utterly asinine.
Further, I don't happen to know what industry you work in, but this would be more the equivalent of you getting a DUI, your employer deciding that no action needs to be taken against you, but the governing body of the industry you work in deciding (against most past precedents) that you need to be suspended from your job for a quarter of the year as a result. Wouldn't that strike you as a little bit odd?
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 11:40 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
human resources can fire me for blowing lines at work. why should the owner of the company be able to fire me? or, the manager of my mall kiosk can fire me. why should corporate be able to?

come on. you're better than this.
The teams are the employers, the NFL is the governing body of each individual employer. Al Davis is the owner of the company employing Dominic Rhodes, and he can fire Rhodes at any point for basically any reason thanks to the morals clause in his contract. My question is why should the governing body of the industry go against most (all but one actually, and that came under Goodell's watch as well) of their precedent and suspend the employees for DUI?
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 11:44 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's not true. it would be akin to my division wanting to fire me, or the company wide HR wanting to fire me. the NFL is the company. the teams are parts of that whole. unless you think the colts could decide to give the NFL a big middle finger and go play CFL football if they wanted? your example is similar to the player's union deciding to step in, NOT the league.
So all stock companies are really just a part of the SEC? That's the same basic logic you're using here. Of course all the teams are going to stay with the NFL, it's the best option for all parties involved. That doesn't make the NFL the owner of all of the teams though, just the governing body, and a governing body that since Goodell's arrival is acting against a great deal of its precedents.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 11:50 AM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
again. the raiders can't just leave the nfl and decide to join the CFL. your analogy is, quite simply, incorrect.
What's the point of having owners if the franchises aren't seperate entities from the NFL?
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:18 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
you're dodging the question. could any NFL team LEAVE the nfl if it chose to?
I would guess so, given that they're each individual companies. I can't say for sure, given that I don't know of nor do I have access to the agreements between each team and the NFL. If you do, feel free to answer the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
your comparison relates to a union. it's just not a good analogy.
My comparison relates to a governing body, such as the SEC, which is the example I gave. It's actually a pretty accurate analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
the NFL owns all rights to football broadcasts. NOT the individual teams. if the NFL is just a loose coalition of teams, why did EA have to negotiate with the NFL rather than with specific teams for licensing of its game? why couldn't, say, the raiders have opted out and sold their rights to someone else for more money?
You've never heard of collective bargaining? The NFLPA isn't the only side participating in talks when concerning the "Collective Bargaining Agreement" between the NFL and NFLPA. When other unions make their CBAs (and all unions have them), who do you think they make them with? Perhaps the governing bodies of their respective industries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
what's the point of having VPs if there are CEO's and directors?
Any given owner of a company either is or hires a CEO for it. Any given owner of an NFL franchise either is or hires a CEO to run the franchise. The NFL does not own the teams, which is why your analogy doesn't work.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

Last edited by Dam8610 : 07-05-2007 at 12:20 PM.
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:21 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,269
Reputation: 1159510
PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Oakland is free to fire him if they feel that doing so is the best course of action. Why should the NFL suspend him?
Because it takes away from his money and doesn't require the team to lose him for 16 games...

A suspension is alot better than the league kicking him out...

I don't know many businesses that would let you get a DUI and not get fired/punished for it.
__________________
PoopSandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:23 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
I don't know many businesses that would let you get a DUI and not get fired/punished for it.
Then let the employer punish him, not the governing body. That's my entire point.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:24 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,269
Reputation: 1159510
PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Then let the employer punish him, not the governing body. That's my entire point.
So if I got a DUI my employer should punish me and I should get out of it completely free from the government? I mean our society would be so awesome if it were like that!!! Someone could own a business and hire a bunch of people as hitmen, and since the government shouldn't punish them, and the employer is a criminal, they would never go to jail!

Grand idea!

The government is the law, the commish is the law, don't break the law.
__________________
PoopSandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:29 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
So if I got a DUI my employer should punish me and I should get out of it completely free from the government? I mean our society would be so awesome if it were like that!!! Someone could own a business and hire a bunch of people as hitmen, and since the government shouldn't punish them, and the employer is a criminal, they would never go to jail!

Grand idea!

The government is the law, the commish is the law, don't break the law.
Is the concept of a governing body really this difficult to understand? He's already dealt with the law, it's up to the Raiders to punish him after that.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,269
Reputation: 1159510
PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Is the concept of a governing body really this difficult to understand? He's already dealt with the law, it's up to the Raiders to punish him after that.
No it isn't... Do you think teams really want to suspend their players for 4 games? No...

So then the government as you call it steps in and does their job... The NFL has every right to suspend someone who has broken a law, because most of the times teams won't do it... Wasn't Pac Man only suspended like one game compared to the 16 the "Government" gave him.
__________________
PoopSandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:43 PM    (permalink
cardsalltheway
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Naptown
Posts: 1,401
Reputation: 652
cardsalltheway is a cocksman.cardsalltheway is a cocksman.cardsalltheway is a cocksman.
Default

You can't have teams hand out punishments for their own players with the NFL left out of the entire process. You'll have teams that will be strict and keep all their players in line with harsh punishments, and then you'll have teams that will, for the most part, let their players do whatever they want with very little punishment. You have to have an unbiased body that gives out consistent punishments.
__________________

Designs by D-Unit

ILEMTPKC - I Love Eli Manning <The Patriots Killer> Club
cardsalltheway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 12:44 PM    (permalink
ks_perfection
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 762
Reputation: 55
ks_perfection hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
No it isn't... Do you think teams really want to suspend their players for 4 games? No...

So then the government as you call it steps in and does their job... The NFL has every right to suspend someone who has broken a law, because most of the times teams won't do it... Wasn't Pac Man only suspended like one game compared to the 16 the "Government" gave him.
Even if teams wanted their player suspended they don't want to offend him by doing it themselves. If the league does the team doesn't look like the bad guy who's taking 1/4 of his salary away.
ks_perfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 02:34 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
because you said so? seriously? fine, i'll even take your word for it.

"Crucial to the SEC's effectiveness in each of these areas is its enforcement authority. Each year the SEC brings hundreds of civil enforcement actions against individuals and companies for violation of the securities laws." -http://www.sec.gov/about/whatwedo.shtml

the SEC has brought lawsuits against INDIVIDUALS for violations of its laws. the NFL has, similarly, suspended INDIVIDUALS for violations of its laws. how is this a good comparison that is favorable for your argument again? because i couldn't get fired and get slapped with a lawsuit from the SEC? what?
Does the SEC suspend stock brokers for DUIs? When exactly did I say the NFL should have no enforcement authority? On this particular issue, I feel they're overstepping their bounds. An off the field conduct policy does the same IMO. Is there any governing body outside of sports that even has one of these? A conduct policy for what you can do on your own time? I doubt it, and if there were, I'd be shocked if it wasn't being challenged. I think an individual or group of NFL players should challenge Fuhrer Goodell's policy as well, especially since it completely breaks precedent.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

Last edited by Dam8610 : 07-05-2007 at 02:36 PM.
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 03:15 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
does the NFL suspend players for improper stock trading? TERRIBLE example.
A stock broker can get a DUI, an NFL player can't improperly trade stock. If anyone's example is terrible, it's your counter-example here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
the two organizations are NOT the same and have different standards of conduct (that should've been obvious, but apparently it needed to be said outright). the SEC may very well suspend brokers based on drug/alcohol use. i don't want to read their bylaws and find out, mostly because it isn't relevant.
Of course the two organizations are different, the only reason I used the SEC as an example is because it, like the NFL, is a governing body over several corporations, a concept that seemed to escape you and others in this thread until I brought up said example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
the NFL has a cut and dried substance abuse policy. let me repeat that just so you get it this time. the NFL has a substance abuse policy.
A substance abuse policy that, by precedent, DOES NOT INCLUDE DUIs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
a player who agreed to be bound by the NFL rules violated that policy.
How, given my previous statement above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
thus, the NFL suspended that player. this fits your example.
No, it doesn't, and I've stated why more than once now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
this is fair by ANY stretch of employment regulations you could think of.
So it's okay to break precedent just because the new guy wants a tough image? Tell that to a lawyer. This is exactly why I do not like Goodell's reign as commissioner thus far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
gosh... any governing body... that has a say in your personal life... maybe, the government? or was that too easy? should i think a little harder? how about universities? they all have a code of personal conduct for faculty and staff that must be followed both in and out of the classroom. still need more examples? i can keep going.
Are either of these governing bodies over industries? No. These are irrelevant and entirely different examples from the type of governing bodies I'm looking for, and you know as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
you're welcome to your opinion as always, but is not, in any way, based in fact or reality.
Why? Because it disagrees with yours? At some point you'll find that you, like everyone else, are in fact fallible.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 03:22 PM    (permalink
Zim3031
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,129
Reputation: 68
Zim3031 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
A substance abuse policy that, by precedent, DOES NOT INCLUDE DUIs.
Are you sure?

Quote:
The illegal use of drugs and the abuse of prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, and alcohol (hereinafter referred to as "substances of abuse") is prohibited [ftnt 1] for players in the National Football League ("NFL"). Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy.
http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/sports/drugs/policy/football/index.html


Certainly a DUI is an example of "the illegal use of drugs"
__________________
Zim3031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 03:30 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim3031 View Post
Are you sure?



http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/sports/drugs/policy/football/index.html


Certainly a DUI is an example of "the illegal use of drugs"
Yes I'm sure. Unless, of course, selective use of the policy is allowed, which would almost certainly be grounds for a discrimination suit in just about any case not involving someone who had previously been ordered to stay away from alcohol, or, as put there, "certain situations where clinically indicated". If Leonard Little can kill a woman while DUI and never miss a down for it, why is Rhodes suspended for 4 games? Of course, there are several other examples of players not getting suspended for DUIs, Little's case is simply the easiest for me to remember for the egregiousness of it.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 03:44 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Uncle Sam is CLUTCH!
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 25259
Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Dam8610 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim3031 View Post
Certainly a DUI is an example of "the illegal use of drugs"
Didn't see this before. If anything, under what you put there, a DUI would fall under the "abuse of prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, and alcohol (hereinafter referred to as "substances of abuse")" portion of the definition you gave. By the strictest of definitions, I suppose a DUI could be considered "abuse of alcohol", but any reasonable person would know that that particular terminology intended to deal with players who get addicted to a "substance of abuse", such as an alcoholic. Regardless, by precedent, DUI is not included in the NFL's substance abuse policy.
__________________


The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
Dam8610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 06:58 PM    (permalink
someone447
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 4,791
Reputation: 35170
someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.someone447 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's an unbelievably stupid presumption that has absolutely no basis whatsoever in reality. there's a reason no one has taken that comment seriously since the first time you invented it to make yourself feel better about the times you've driven drunk.

further, iirc, you're still in college. why, exactly, should i believe anything you say about what is/isn't allowed once you have a "career job"?
I do not know a single person who hasn't driven drunk. Whether they are my age or parents friends, or even grandparents friends. .08 is hardly anything, yet you are considered legally drunk.

I say that to make me feel better about myself? I've driven drunk 3 times, and each time I wake up in the morning and think, why the **** did I just do that.

Which is why I said I would GUESS that you wouldn't get fired. I probably should have added unless you work with a job that driving or something very much life it.

Try to think of one person that drinks that hasn't driven drunk, good luck finding one. Just think back to not only college, but also look at the percentage of people at any given bar or party(especially new years) and tell me that just about everyone hasn't driven drunk.
__________________
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson
someone447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.