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View Poll Results: Which of these 2nd year RBs will have the most rushing yards?
Maurice Drew-Jones 14 15.73%
Reggie Bush 12 13.48%
Laurence Maroney 51 57.30%
Deangelo Williams 7 7.87%
Jerious Norwood 5 5.62%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-07-2007, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Bush can be judged as a running back IF he becomes the primary. As he is presently used, you won't get much rushing production out of 9 carries per game and its foolish to expect it. Can't get into much of a rhythm like that.
"If" he becomes the primary. If I'm New Orleans, why would I force Reggie Bush, a 5'10" 200-lbs back, who excels at receiving, into a between the tackles runner?
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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I think it is a tad bit premature and even shortsighted to suggest that Reggie Bush can neither be a prolific runner nor can he run in between the tackles. What evidence is there to suggest that Bush cannot run in between tackles?

Last year, Bush's running problems came more down to his own refusal to take what the defenses were giving him and instead opting to try and make the big play. I have repeatedly argued that the 44 yard run in the preseason against the Titans actually slowed Bush's development and transition to the pros. I know it was only a preseason game, but Bush came out in that game running between the tackle with nice 5 and 6 yard runs. Then, he breaks the play for 44 yards by reversing field and he seemed to rely on trying to bounce everything outside at the start of the regular season. When he did run between the tackles, he was successful. But he rarely did this and defenses knew to stretch the play out because Bush was likely to go out-of-bounds. There were a number of plays that Bush could have easily scored on if he had just made a cutback inside because opposing defenses were so committed to stopping Bush from getting outside.

Sean Payton pointed this out to him. So did Marshall Faulk. Starting in the game, Bush begin to take what defenses were giving him. Shiver, you state that Bush only had one solid game against New York but that was the only game that he had a significant number of carries. In fact, that was the only game he carried the ball 20 times. But in the second half of the season, Bush averaged over 5 yards per carry. And you even saw a change in the way defenses had to play him. No longer could they force the action to the outside because they had to respect the fact that Bush would actually run inside. The result was Bush was now able to make some of those reverse-across-the-field runs that we had become accustomed to. For emphasis, against Philadelphia in the playoffs, he ran to the right, got bottled up and was able to cut back to the left and gain about 25 yards on the play. He was able to do the same for a touchdown run later in the game.

Bush had a solid running day against New York. He was on his way to a solid running day against Carolina but only received 3 carries. But those carries went for 12, 7 and a touchdown run of 1 yard. All three carries were in between the tackles.

Against Chicago, the Saints got away from the run very early. But the longest run of the day against the Bears came from Bush. It was only 12 yards but early on when he got carries, he had a couple of good, tough runs running inside against the Bears and actually was doing a better job than Deuce.

I think you will see vast improvement from Bush. He raised his per play rushing average by almost 1.5 yard in the second half of the season. I think if Bush was not trying so hard to make a big play on each play and, instead, would have allowed the game to just come to him, he would have probably average close to 5 yards a carry the entire season.

Finally, I think he will see an increase in carries. The local sports personalities in New Orleans have suggested that. In fact, one such personality--Kenny Wilkerson (who happens to work directly for the team) has even suggested that Saints fans should not be surprised if Bush ends up with more carries by season's end than Deuce. They will continue to try and split the carries but the word is that Bush's role as a runner will be significantly increased. Also, Bush has been doing a lot of running inside and having a lot more plays called for him in that regard. A lot of the plays called for him last year, particularly in the first half of the season, were tosses. Expect to see more runs inside and I could easily see him posting big numbers.

It is difficult to say who will have the most rushing yards amongst second year backs. So many of the guys on the list, sans Maroney and Addai, have to share carries. Still, so many things (i.e. injuries, second year slumps) can happen in a season that might have an effect on who is able to produce the most yards at season's end. It could be Maroney or Addai but it just as easily could be Jones-Drew or Bush or Williams or, heck, Leon Washington (if, say, Thomas Jones was to go down and Washington was to step up in a major way). Personally, I am expecting a big year Bush that will silence a lot of the critics.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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1. Joseph Addai
2. Maroney
3. Norwood- sorry but your done Warrick
4. Deangelo Williams
5. MJD
6. Bush
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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I think it is a tad bit premature and even shortsighted to suggest that Reggie Bush can neither be a prolific runner nor can he run in between the tackles. What evidence is there to suggest that Bush cannot run in between tackles?

Last year, Bush's running problems came more down to his own refusal to take what the defenses were giving him and instead opting to try and make the big play. I have repeatedly argued that the 44 yard run in the preseason against the Titans actually slowed Bush's development and transition to the pros. I know it was only a preseason game, but Bush came out in that game running between the tackle with nice 5 and 6 yard runs. Then, he breaks the play for 44 yards by reversing field and he seemed to rely on trying to bounce everything outside at the start of the regular season. When he did run between the tackles, he was successful. But he rarely did this and defenses knew to stretch the play out because Bush was likely to go out-of-bounds. There were a number of plays that Bush could have easily scored on if he had just made a cutback inside because opposing defenses were so committed to stopping Bush from getting outside.

Sean Payton pointed this out to him. So did Marshall Faulk. Starting in the game, Bush begin to take what defenses were giving him. Shiver, you state that Bush only had one solid game against New York but that was the only game that he had a significant number of carries. In fact, that was the only game he carried the ball 20 times. But in the second half of the season, Bush averaged over 5 yards per carry. And you even saw a change in the way defenses had to play him. No longer could they force the action to the outside because they had to respect the fact that Bush would actually run inside. The result was Bush was now able to make some of those reverse-across-the-field runs that we had become accustomed to. For emphasis, against Philadelphia in the playoffs, he ran to the right, got bottled up and was able to cut back to the left and gain about 25 yards on the play. He was able to do the same for a touchdown run later in the game.

Bush had a solid running day against New York. He was on his way to a solid running day against Carolina but only received 3 carries. But those carries went for 12, 7 and a touchdown run of 1 yard. All three carries were in between the tackles.

Against Chicago, the Saints got away from the run very early. But the longest run of the day against the Bears came from Bush. It was only 12 yards but early on when he got carries, he had a couple of good, tough runs running inside against the Bears and actually was doing a better job than Deuce.

I think you will see vast improvement from Bush. He raised his per play rushing average by almost 1.5 yard in the second half of the season. I think if Bush was not trying so hard to make a big play on each play and, instead, would have allowed the game to just come to him, he would have probably average close to 5 yards a carry the entire season.

Finally, I think he will see an increase in carries. The local sports personalities in New Orleans have suggested that. In fact, one such personality--Kenny Wilkerson (who happens to work directly for the team) has even suggested that Saints fans should not be surprised if Bush ends up with more carries by season's end than Deuce. They will continue to try and split the carries but the word is that Bush's role as a runner will be significantly increased. Also, Bush has been doing a lot of running inside and having a lot more plays called for him in that regard. A lot of the plays called for him last year, particularly in the first half of the season, were tosses. Expect to see more runs inside and I could easily see him posting big numbers.

It is difficult to say who will have the most rushing yards amongst second year backs. So many of the guys on the list, sans Maroney and Addai, have to share carries. Still, so many things (i.e. injuries, second year slumps) can happen in a season that might have an effect on who is able to produce the most yards at season's end. It could be Maroney or Addai but it just as easily could be Jones-Drew or Bush or Williams or, heck, Leon Washington (if, say, Thomas Jones was to go down and Washington was to step up in a major way). Personally, I am expecting a big year Bush that will silence a lot of the critics.

good post *10 char*
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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STH you have points about Bush, but he cannot run between the tackles, at least he hasn't done it to this point. I'm not at all afraid of him as an RB, the reason his YPC went up the 2nd half of the season was him getting to hit defenses when Deuce had worn them out, and they had to start adjusting to attempt to stop Colston from beating them over the top. The defenses weren't playing Bush anymore, they were playing Colston. Payton is a brilliant offensive mind and he knows he has to use Bush in a way that he can be effective, and that's not as a between the tackles runner, he's not going to force him to be that. Bush will never be a 'Primary' back, the NFL is switching away from that and it's going to a split back system, so that's what he'll always be in as far as I can tell.

As far as the other backs, I had Maroney and Jones-Drew high on my list but I think I had Williams as the top back as my desire for the Falcons, eventhough I know normally after that many carries a RB doesn't last too long, he just seems like a special talent to me. When we picked Norwood I was upset at first to be honest, but now that I've seen him play I couldn't be happier. He runs so much stronger than it appears, and all I can think of is OJ Simpson running all over the field when I see his highlights. Which, I'll take that =) His injuries bothered me, but it was just a re-aggravating of an injury so I'm not too worried.

Even with Addai on the list I really think it's going to be Maroney that tops the list of backs with Addai #2.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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STH you have points about Bush, but he cannot run between the tackles, at least he hasn't done it to this point. I'm not at all afraid of him as an RB, the reason his YPC went up the 2nd half of the season was him getting to hit defenses when Deuce had worn them out, and they had to start adjusting to attempt to stop Colston from beating them over the top. The defenses weren't playing Bush anymore, they were playing Colston. Payton is a brilliant offensive mind and he knows he has to use Bush in a way that he can be effective, and that's not as a between the tackles runner, he's not going to force him to be that. Bush will never be a 'Primary' back, the NFL is switching away from that and it's going to a split back system, so that's what he'll always be in as far as I can tell.
This is simply not the case. The light for Bush seemed to come on in the Pittsburgh game. Bush started to do a much better job in that game of running with the football. Also, defenses were not concentrating on Colston because Colston missed three (and four if you consider the fact that he only played in one drive against the Bengals) games during the second half. His first game back was against Dallas, a game in which he was hardly utilized sans a few plays here and there. If anything, there was more attention placed on Reggie given that his responsibilities in the passing game begin ot increase more as he was one of the individuals that Payton used to compensate for the loss of both Marques Colston and Joe Horn.

I disagree with the notion that Deuce was wearing defenses down for Reggie. If anything, most of Deuce's yards came in the second half, during the late third and fourth quarters as the Saints would look to milk the clock. For instance, look at that Dallas game. Deuce's yards came in the fourth quarter as the Saints were attempting to run out the clock. But in the second half of the season, Reggie was, more and more, getting carries at the beginning of the game.

Also, I still do not know where the notion that Reggie cannot run inside comes from? Please point me in the direction of a game where Reggie was gobbled up while trying to run inside. You will find no such games. What you will find is Reggie early on in the season looking to make a big play on every touch. HE WAS PRESSING! Heck, he even admitted that he was pressing, looking to make the big play and justify all the hype surrounding him. Couple that with a 44 yard run against the Titans that had him believing he could do the same things that he did at USC and it is easily to see why he struggled early and took a while to adjust. I can remember games in which Reggie would not even get touched by the defense but would end up running out of bounds because the play had been stretched so far outside since defenses knew exactly where he was headed on each play. Again, on those few times that he did decide to turn it up inside, he saw positive yards. But early in the season, he had a lot of runs for negative yards and his average was about 2.2 per carry. But over the second half, again, it was over 5 yards a carry and his final per carry average went up nearly 1.5 yards. And most of that came ONCE HE STARTED RUNNING MORE INSIDE and not looking to take each play outside. Again, go back and look at some of those games in the second half. Check out the Giants game. Most of his running in that game came in between the tackles. It's funny...in the two games where Reggie saw his most carries during the regular season--20 for 126 yards against the Giants and 15 carries for 67 yards against Cleveland--he averaged 6.3 and 4.5 yards, respectively. It seems to me that as he gets more carries, he is easily capable of showing himself to be a solid runner. I think the NFL will see a lot of what you saw from Reggie over the second half of the season during a full season. He is reportedly stronger and faster and has been looking much more explosive than he looked last season, even at season's end. You can have your opinion on Bush, one way or the other. That's fine because everyone has a right to his or her opinions. However, do not be surprised when Reggie is posting big numbers not just in the passing game but in the running game as well.

Almost forgot, I can remember when people said that Tiki Barber and your own Warrick Dunn were not primary backs. Hmm, the nerve of some people!
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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Plus, Bush is doing Fre Flo Do this offseason!

...

Yeah, didn't have much to add.
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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Plus, Bush is doing Fre Flo Do this offseason!

...

Yeah, didn't have much to add.
Yea I think he's pretty much got this under control.

Fantastic post btw, if only we had more members like this.
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Old 07-08-2007, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Oh, That's fine and all, I'm glad you are excited about a player on your team, there's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing I can say to burst your bubble, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I'm leaning towards Bush just isn't going to change the NFL like everyone is saying he will, he might get credit for it, but there are people who paved the way for him. Just like Magic and Bird paved the way for Jordan, but Jordan gets all the credit, could be looking at the same thing here.

I hope not, but I can still be honest and say I love seeing him lined up in the backfield against Atlanta, I've said it three times now, and I mean it. I'm sorry that you feel differently, but he can't outrun Atlanta's defense to the corners or around the edges, and I know he can't run up the middle so it really doesn't bother me. You can call me a homer and whatever you want, but Demorrio Williams can run with Reggie and cover him out of the backfield, but when he lines up in the slot is when I am most scared of Reggie Bush, other than that I'm not too worried about it.
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Old 07-08-2007, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Oh, That's fine and all, I'm glad you are excited about a player on your team, there's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing I can say to burst your bubble, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I'm leaning towards Bush just isn't going to change the NFL like everyone is saying he will, he might get credit for it, but there are people who paved the way for him. Just like Magic and Bird paved the way for Jordan, but Jordan gets all the credit, could be looking at the same thing here.

I hope not, but I can still be honest and say I love seeing him lined up in the backfield against Atlanta, I've said it three times now, and I mean it. I'm sorry that you feel differently, but he can't outrun Atlanta's defense to the corners or around the edges, and I know he can't run up the middle so it really doesn't bother me. You can call me a homer and whatever you want, but Demorrio Williams can run with Reggie and cover him out of the backfield, but when he lines up in the slot is when I am most scared of Reggie Bush, other than that I'm not too worried about it.
I am not simply excited about Bush because he plays for my favorite team. I try to be objective, even though I am able to recognize the difficulties of being objective when we have such a subjective mind. I am not going to say that Bush will change the league like some have proposed because I do not think that such things can be predicted. I do, however, think that he can be a major force in the NFL and a top-flight player for many years, barring injury.

I am quite sure that you would not want to see him succeed. If you look at the second game against the Falcons last season, Bush did a much better job of running the football against you guys. In fact, there was one play where he was one more broken tackle from the endzone. I disagree with your assessment that Demorrio Williams can cover Bush but I do not think either one of us will change the other person's mind on it.

Good luck with your team's season.
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Old 07-08-2007, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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The defenses weren't playing Bush anymore, they were playing Colston.
i highly disagree with that...what facts do you have to back up this statement?

why would a defense focus more on colston then bush makes no sense at all, colston is a rookie WR, yes a very good one, but he's not steve smith...i cant see any way when bush lines up on the field, the defense is focused more on stopping colston then figuring out where bush is lining up
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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How can Adaii not be on this list!?!? With 51..8% of the Colts carries last year, he got 1081 yards and 7 TDs. Now, Rhodes is gone. Even with only 75% of the carries this year, you can expect 1500 yards and 11 TDs!
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