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Old 07-05-2007, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Gates have to disagree with, he's not the most indispensible player on the Chargers. To be honest, it could be Jamal Williams, without him there is no centerpiece to that defense, which really opens things up for other teams....however I don't think you can really say any player is "indispensible" when their teams are as talented as teams like the Chargers, Patriots, Colts etc. Those teams, which all have players in the top five, are all talented enough to make up for each other...

Real indispensible palyers are the ones like LJ, who have become the entire identity of a team's offense or defense.

And as for Harrington being a better QB/better off for the Falcons...thats ridiculous, and if you truly believe they are talk to Lions or Dolphins fans about him. Not trying to knock Harrington or Vick, but Harrington isn't exactly miles ahead, if ahead at all, on Vick, as a QB, let alone a player. If you don't like Vick thats fine, but saying Harrington is a better option is a little ridiculous.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Nope, not having Peyton #1 is just wrong.

And LT not on the list at all is just plain bad.
Huh? Peyton has 2 great receivers and a amazing O Line with a good defense and great coaches
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Huh? Peyton has 2 great receivers and a amazing O Line with a good defense and great coaches
"Amazing" is stretching it.

Jim Sorgi couldn't do what Peyton does.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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The NFC South is not mediocre. The Saints look to be Super Bowl contenders, the Panthers were a Super Bowl favorite and have a ton of potential, the Falcons are boom or bust, and the Bucs are going from old to young fast.

And saying the Falcons would be better off without Vick is ignorant.
The South went six games under .500 against non NFC South opponents. That's a pretty bad showing, and the Falcons were beaten badly both times they played the Saints. I don't think Atlanta is better without Vick, but they could be just bad enough to the point where having Vick wouldn't really make much of a difference.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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"Amazing" is stretching it.

Jim Sorgi couldn't do what Peyton does.
No one could do what peyton does, thats not the point, the colts would still be sucsefull without Peyton Manning
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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No one could do what peyton does, thats not the point, the colts would still be sucsefull without Peyton Manning
I disagree. What good are WR's if you don't have someone to throw them the ball?
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. What good are WR's if you don't have someone to throw them the ball?
They might not be as dynamite a team without Peyton, but even if they didn't have him, Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Addai, and a good (ranging to great) O-Line puts them in much better shape then still a lot of teams in the league, even with Ryan Leaf at QB (well, maybe not him)..

You could get rid of Peyton there, and still have a productive offense, whereas you get rid of an LJ from KC, or even as far as Vince Young from the Titans, your left with little to no offensive firepower at all.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Manning
Brady
Brees
Palmer
Tomlinson
Larry Johnson
McNabb (this year because they have a rook behind him.)
Steve McNair (He's nothing special but Boller is like the 12th man on defense...)
Vince Young
Shaun Alexander
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Palmer should be higher than #10.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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I think this question has more to do with the backups than it does the actual player in question. And the rarer the type of player, the more indispensible they are. So I'd have a tough time putting any RB on a top 10 list. There's just too many of them. Although, I admit the Chiefs would be pretty bad without LJ. To me, the guys who are most indispensable are the beasts in the trenches. Without them, guys like LJ and Priest end up looking like every other RB who runs behind inadequate blockers. Those road graders are just a rarer breed. Guys like Lorenzo Neal and Steve Hutchinson have more of an impact when switching teams than guys like Edgerrin James or Clinton Portis do. Give me a choice between Tommie Harris and Shaun Alexander, and it's a no-brainer. I'm going with the super-rare pass rushing DT. Now, of course when you factor in money and fan support, you've got a whole different equation to consider. For me though, it's all about what makes my team better. And relying too heavily on one RB is almost always a bad idea. I don't mean it's not good to have a workhorse, I just mean you've got to have a plan B. RB is a position that it's easy to have a plan B. NT isn't. Neither is QB or LT. So in other words, if your RB is the most indispensable player on your entire team, then you need to pull your head out of your ass. There's just no excuse for that, imo.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acreboy View Post
"Amazing" is stretching it.

Jim Sorgi couldn't do what Peyton does.
This is a filthy lie. Jim Sorgi can throw a ball further than even "Gunslinger" Brett Favre and like someone said earlier, the Colts only play with Peyton because if Sorgi played, it wouldn't be fair to the other teams as Sorgi would average 550 yards and 8 TD per. Hence, the NFL doesn't want such embarassment.

I think Vick at #7 is a mistake there too. I just don't think he's that important to the team. Sorry, but even an average QB could hit 53.8% of his passes. His 1.36:1 TD/INT ratio isn't exactly scorching up the stats either. I know he's a valuable rusher, but so are Warrick Dunn and Jerious Norwood, and they're not playing QB.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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I think if you flip Peyton and Brady and Vick and Palmer, that's a good list.

The Chiefs are most definitely dead in the water without LJ. Peyton is the real MVP on that list, but the Colts aren't quite as dead in the water without him--- though they still would be dead in the water.

Brady runs that offense, but it would still be manageable considering the defense and the offensive supporting cast. If he was lost, it'd definitely be a blow.

Meanwhile, Carson Palmer's value is on a level just below these two.

Michael Vick isn't a great QB. But, let's face it. That offense just doesn't work without him. Ever since 2002, in games Vick hasn't started the team has gone 3-13.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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This is a filthy lie. Jim Sorgi can throw a ball further than even "Gunslinger" Brett Favre and like someone said earlier, the Colts only play with Peyton because if Sorgi played, it wouldn't be fair to the other teams as Sorgi would average 550 yards and 8 TD per. Hence, the NFL doesn't want such embarassment.

I think Vick at #7 is a mistake there too. I just don't think he's that important to the team. Sorry, but even an average QB could hit 53.8% of his passes. His 1.36:1 TD/INT ratio isn't exactly scorching up the stats either. I know he's a valuable rusher, but so are Warrick Dunn and Jerious Norwood, and they're not playing QB.
Agreed 100% about Sorgi.

As far as Vick though, a lot of what he brings to the team can't be quantified with stats. All you have to do is hang out with a defensive coordinator during the week prior to his team facing the Falcons, and you'll see how important he is to his team. I think any guy with such rare athleticism and versatility is just inherently indispensable. Take away Vick, and you've got a completely different offense.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson at #1 is a joke. RBs are inherently pretty expendable and he isn't even the best in the league. Not to mention the fact that Brady and Manning are the heart and soul of perennial winning teams while LJ gets 30 carries a game so they don't have to throw.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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No Drew Brees?

...

Hahahahahaha.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:32 AM    (permalink
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Agreed 100% about Sorgi.

As far as Vick though, a lot of what he brings to the team can't be quantified with stats. All you have to do is hang out with a defensive coordinator during the week prior to his team facing the Falcons, and you'll see how important he is to his team. I think any guy with such rare athleticism and versatility is just inherently indispensable. Take away Vick, and you've got a completely different offense.
Yeah I suppose you're right. I was merely looking at it from a QB only viewpoint while forgetting everything he opens up for the other guys on his team. Plus, 1,000 yards rushing for a QB? Sickkkkkkkkkk.

And Jim Sorgi for 2008 NFL MVP! Enough with this fraud Manning, let the real stud play.
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:45 AM    (permalink
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the one thing that's easy to say is that denver needs champ like i need a glass of water.

a one man deflection crew. the only corner that really has the right to say he's all that.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:07 AM    (permalink
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the one thing that's easy to say is that denver needs champ like i need a glass of water.

a one man deflection crew. the only corner that really has the right to say he's all that....
....and a bag of chips

macaroni with the cheese
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:43 AM    (permalink
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Drew Brees Should be high on this list.

Who is his back up?
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:15 AM    (permalink
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Drew Brees Should be high on this list.

Who is his back up?
Jamie Martin.
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:23 AM    (permalink
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Jamie Martin.

I rest my case.
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm with him about LJ.

I think Brady is too high. He shouldn't be in the top 10. The system exploits the weaknesses of the other teams defense not highlight a QBs skills. Throw Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard, Jim Sorgi, Joey Harrington in their and they are still likely to be in playoff contention. The Pats defense and their bend not break philosophy is good enough to ride on for about 7 wins. Brady puts them in a position to wear they will win a few more games. W/o Brady they still are a .500 or above .500 team.
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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I know you guys might be joking, but Jim Sorgi's stats are actually pretty good. I'd be anxious to see how he'd do in the starting role, perhaps if he were traded or something, hell he has better stats than Schaub.

In the last 3 regular season games that Sorgi has thrown a pass in (a total of 86 passes in those games, which is a fair sample considering he has only thrown 90 passes in his carreer) he has had a QB rating of 110.1, 103.8, and 94.7 (against the Broncos, Seahawks, and Cardinals). In his career he has a 5 to 1 TD ratio.

Jim Sorgi Carreer Stats (90 attempts)
99.3 QB Rating
65.6% completion rate
5 TDs, 1 INT

Not bad for someone with no experience on the field, and basicly in his rookie year.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Acreboy View Post
Nope, not having Peyton #1 is just wrong.

And LT not on the list at all is just plain bad.
You have to admit the Chiefs would be HORRIBLE without LJ. Peyton is a toss up at 1 with LJ. And LT shouldn't even be on the list. They have Michael Turner at backup, they wouldn't be as good but they'd still make the playoffs.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:27 AM    (permalink
Sniper
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Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
I'm with him about LJ.

I think Brady is too high. He shouldn't be in the top 10. The system exploits the weaknesses of the other teams defense not highlight a QBs skills. Throw Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard, Jim Sorgi, Joey Harrington in their and they are still likely to be in playoff contention. The Pats defense and their bend not break philosophy is good enough to ride on for about 7 wins. Brady puts them in a position to wear they will win a few more games. W/o Brady they still are a .500 or above .500 team.
You really think they would have been a .500 team last year w/o Brady? Come on, Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell. Brady makes everyone on that offense look so much better than they are. I mean, Gaffney got cut by the Eagles pre-Stallworth trade, instead of stalwarts like Greg Lewis and all of a sudden he's looking halfway decent with the Pats?
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