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Old 07-08-2007, 09:08 AM    (permalink
TheChampIsHere
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yea throwing a rock at a car is some BS and the dude deserved an ass-whooping for it. Probly just some stupid ass kid who just needs to learn a few lessons and what better way than to take a beating from an NFL LB???

But as usual with these things, NFL players have got to be smarter than that. Sure, the dude shouldnta thrown the rock at your car and he deserved what he got but you are NFL player, you have too much to lose and you know the guy is gonna sue you and all kinds of BS when he finds out you are a pro player. You gotta practice more restraint.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Lucky for Waters the kid was 18 not 17, he likely would have gotten an assault on a minor charge and he would have been screwed over worse, because of that idiot.
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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idk bout you but the picture on this site in scotts rankings makes me not wanna mess with waters...he looks mean haha
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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idk bout you but the picture on this site in scotts rankings makes me not wanna mess with waters...he looks mean haha
He talks like a mean guy too. I'm suprised he didn't kill the guy.
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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He talks like a mean guy too. I'm suprised he didn't kill the guy.
oh me neither...i know i probably would if i was him
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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yea throwing a rock at a car is some BS and the dude deserved an ass-whooping for it. Probly just some stupid ass kid who just needs to learn a few lessons and what better way than to take a beating from an NFL LB???

But as usual with these things, NFL players have got to be smarter than that. Sure, the dude shouldnta thrown the rock at your car and he deserved what he got but you are NFL player, you have too much to lose and you know the guy is gonna sue you and all kinds of BS when he finds out you are a pro player. You gotta practice more restraint.
You have the right to defend yourself. If someone throws a rock at your car while your driving, you could become seriously injured, and if you crash, you could injure all those around you. The guy deserves more than an ass-woopin, and I agree with what Waters did here. Hopefully Goodell does too.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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You have the right to defend yourself. If someone throws a rock at your car while your driving, you could become seriously injured, and if you crash, you could injure all those around you. The guy deserves more than an ass-woopin, and I agree with what Waters did here. Hopefully Goodell does too.
I dont disagree, he deserved it, and if someone threw a rock at my windshield Id react the same way. But were talking about the whole athletes being held to a higher standard thing here and even though I dont necessarily agree that they should be, as an athlete in this day and age you have to realize you will be and that if you do anything wrong you are a target. Fact is Waters didnt need to go beat this guy up to defend himself, he could have just kept driving and been OK, and the way some of you guys are talking like his life was in mortal danger is not a sensible rationale, he was obviously OK if he immediately ran the kid down and beat his ass. As a pro athlete with as much to lose as he does and everything else that goes along with it, you have to be smart and show restraint in a situation like that where someone tests you. Just because someone deserves an ass-whooping doesnt mean you have to be the one to do it, even though you obviously want to because youre mad...I think you get what my point is....It goes across the board....If youre Pac-Man Jones, you shouldnt go to a strip club at 3 in the morning with thousands of dollars and with an entourage, even if it is legal and hes allowed to do it its just not smart for a man in his position to do it...For all the players who have been caught for petty crimes, the crime is not the big deal IMO when were talking about a marijuana possesion charge or giving a drink to a minor, carrying a pistol, whatever....but as a pro athlete you gotta be a little smarter than that and stop doing some things you used to do, and it aint easy to change your lifestyle like that when its what youre used to, but if you dont it gets harder to stay out of trouble when you become such a high profile person and its not worth the risk anymore.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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He should of threw paper back.....Paper always beats rock!
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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I dont disagree, he deserved it, and if someone threw a rock at my windshield Id react the same way. But were talking about the whole athletes being held to a higher standard thing here and even though I dont necessarily agree that they should be, as an athlete in this day and age you have to realize you will be and that if you do anything wrong you are a target. Fact is Waters didnt need to go beat this guy up to defend himself, he could have just kept driving and been OK, and the way some of you guys are talking like his life was in mortal danger is not a sensible rationale, he was obviously OK if he immediately ran the kid down and beat his ass. As a pro athlete with as much to lose as he does and everything else that goes along with it, you have to be smart and show restraint in a situation like that where someone tests you. Just because someone deserves an ass-whooping doesnt mean you have to be the one to do it, even though you obviously want to because youre mad...I think you get what my point is....It goes across the board....If youre Pac-Man Jones, you shouldnt go to a strip club at 3 in the morning with thousands of dollars and with an entourage, even if it is legal and hes allowed to do it its just not smart for a man in his position to do it...For all the players who have been caught for petty crimes, the crime is not the big deal IMO when were talking about a marijuana possesion charge or giving a drink to a minor, carrying a pistol, whatever....but as a pro athlete you gotta be a little smarter than that and stop doing some things you used to do, and it aint easy to change your lifestyle like that when its what youre used to, but if you dont it gets harder to stay out of trouble when you become such a high profile person and its not worth the risk anymore.
That is completely different from what Waters was doing. Waters was just driving and Pacman was going to a strip club with an entourage at 3:00AM.

Are you saying that Waters shouldn't defend himself, or that the NFL should change their policy of the law?

If the NFL punishes Waters for this, they really need to change the system, because every person in the right mind is going to defend themselves when attacked. It's like a 6th sense.
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:41 AM    (permalink
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no, Waters didnt need to go beat the **** out of the guy who a threw a rock at him. It was some punk kid, not a threat to him. The rock hit the windshield, he was fine, he coulda drove off, or chased down the kid and then called the police or something along those lines. But what it came down to was he was pissed that the kid had thrown a rock at him and shattered his windshield (as he rightly should be) and he had a strong urge to go beat the dudes ass and thats what he did. The fact that you are trying to call it self-defense is laughable. Yeah, he was justified to do it, but he was in no danger, he did it because he wanted to get the guy back for throwing a rock at his car. Now, he has to deal with the consequences, because hes an NFL player and this is going to be more scrutinized than it should be. The guy is gonna try to sue him, the NFL is gonna look into it, he could face a suspension, the Chargers could end up cutting him. How is it similar to Pac-Man? Well, theres nothing really wrong in itself with going to the strip club at 3AM with an entourage but he has to understand that being the player he is, trouble is likely to come, if anything goes down the press is gonna be all over it, people are gonna want to connect him to it for various reasons. And stuff went down and he has to deal with the consequences, suspension, possibly being traded, loss of money, etc....No, the situations are not the same, but there are similarities, but the point is a lot of NFL players do things that arent so terrible (going to strip clubs at late night, beating up a dude who throws a rock at you, smoking weed, public intoxication, etc etc, and the point is its not horrible things theyre doing but the way things are, **** is gonna come down on them when they get in any kind of trouble, so they have to show restraint and hold back from what seems like reasonable behavior if they can get in trouble for it cuz when you are a pro player it just aint worth it.
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Im sure self-defense is what his lawyer will argue it was. That he had to do something because he didn't know if the guy would keep throwing more rocks at him.
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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no, Waters didnt need to go beat the **** out of the guy who a threw a rock at him. It was some punk kid, not a threat to him. The rock hit the windshield, he was fine, he coulda drove off, or chased down the kid and then called the police or something along those lines. But what it came down to was he was pissed that the kid had thrown a rock at him and shattered his windshield (as he rightly should be) and he had a strong urge to go beat the dudes ass and thats what he did. The fact that you are trying to call it self-defense is laughable. Yeah, he was justified to do it, but he was in no danger, he did it because he wanted to get the guy back for throwing a rock at his car. Now, he has to deal with the consequences, because hes an NFL player and this is going to be more scrutinized than it should be. The guy is gonna try to sue him, the NFL is gonna look into it, he could face a suspension, the Chargers could end up cutting him. How is it similar to Pac-Man? Well, theres nothing really wrong in itself with going to the strip club at 3AM with an entourage but he has to understand that being the player he is, trouble is likely to come, if anything goes down the press is gonna be all over it, people are gonna want to connect him to it for various reasons. And stuff went down and he has to deal with the consequences, suspension, possibly being traded, loss of money, etc....No, the situations are not the same, but there are similarities, but the point is a lot of NFL players do things that arent so terrible (going to strip clubs at late night, beating up a dude who throws a rock at you, smoking weed, public intoxication, etc etc, and the point is its not horrible things theyre doing but the way things are, **** is gonna come down on them when they get in any kind of trouble, so they have to show restraint and hold back from what seems like reasonable behavior if they can get in trouble for it cuz when you are a pro player it just aint worth it.
What kind of Raider fan are you?
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Not saying Waters wasn't justified but let's get one thing straight.

Self-defense is when someone is trying to injure you and you injure them in the direct process of trying to stop it.

Someone throws a rock at you or your car, it hits you, then after that's over with you chase them down and hit them back, that's not self-defense, it's retaliation.

Again, did the kid deserve it? Hell yes. But Waters will not be able to argue self-defense.
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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If you instigate a fight with Waters your an idiot.
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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What kind of Raider fan are you?

lol...the truth is I dont care if a player beats up a dude who beats up someone who throws rocks at him or goes to strip clubs or smokes weed but Goodell is cracking down on it hard and when you are a pro athlete youve got a target on your chest and its just stupid to put yourself in those situations.

Lionsmack, well put. I dont disagree that he retalliated but in no way is any judge or any rational person gonna buy self defense for this case, it was clearly retalliation.
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:18 AM    (permalink
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You have the right to defend yourself. If someone throws a rock at your car while your driving, you could become seriously injured, and if you crash, you could injure all those around you. The guy deserves more than an ass-woopin, and I agree with what Waters did here. Hopefully Goodell does too.
I love the insights of all the 15 year olds.

Yes, in the law, you have the right to defend yourself. But that is only as long as there is a danger or "perceived" danger to yourself. When that danger passes, it is then assault. I.E. You cannot "get even" with a guy after a passing moment such as the rock being thrown at the windshield. After the rock was thrown, the danger passed. It's just the same way that someone will get charged for 2nd degree murder when the confrontation started out in self-defense.

Example 1: You are walking down the street, you pass a dark alley. A guy jumps you and pulls you into the alley. You, the giant 6'7 280 15 year old football player that you are, take the guy easily. You throw him against the wall, rendering him unconscious. The threat has passed. Yet out of anger you continue to beat the poor man to a bloody pulp, finishing him off with a curb stomp or two. That will get you quite a few years in prison. If you walk away when he is unconscious, you are fine, but right when you pass that point, you are assaulting him.

Example 2: You are walking down the street and you pass the same dark alley. The same guy jumps you, but instead of throwing him against a brick wall, you bring the bricks to him--your fists. Heavy punch after heavy punch, but he's still fighting back. Finally you deliver a nasty right hook that would make Rocky Balboa jealous and you knock him out. But he is suffering from internal bleeding and dies from injuries sustained in the fight. But the whole time he was fighting against you. The DA may try to come with a manslaughter charge against you, but any 2-bit lawyer could get the charges dismissed. Why? Because he was still attacking you, thus you had a right to defend yourself.

In Waters' case, there was no danger past the initial incident of throwing the rock. Because of that, Waters had better hope he gets a nice signing bonus to pay his lawyer fees. Otherwise he could be looking at some real time in jail.
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Old 07-14-2007, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I love the insights of all the 15 year olds.

Yes, in the law, you have the right to defend yourself. But that is only as long as there is a danger or "perceived" danger to yourself. When that danger passes, it is then assault. I.E. You cannot "get even" with a guy after a passing moment such as the rock being thrown at the windshield. After the rock was thrown, the danger passed. It's just the same way that someone will get charged for 2nd degree murder when the confrontation started out in self-defense.

Example 1: You are walking down the street, you pass a dark alley. A guy jumps you and pulls you into the alley. You, the giant 6'7 280 15 year old football player that you are, take the guy easily. You throw him against the wall, rendering him unconscious. The threat has passed. Yet out of anger you continue to beat the poor man to a bloody pulp, finishing him off with a curb stomp or two. That will get you quite a few years in prison. If you walk away when he is unconscious, you are fine, but right when you pass that point, you are assaulting him.

Example 2: You are walking down the street and you pass the same dark alley. The same guy jumps you, but instead of throwing him against a brick wall, you bring the bricks to him--your fists. Heavy punch after heavy punch, but he's still fighting back. Finally you deliver a nasty right hook that would make Rocky Balboa jealous and you knock him out. But he is suffering from internal bleeding and dies from injuries sustained in the fight. But the whole time he was fighting against you. The DA may try to come with a manslaughter charge against you, but any 2-bit lawyer could get the charges dismissed. Why? Because he was still attacking you, thus you had a right to defend yourself.

In Waters' case, there was no danger past the initial incident of throwing the rock. Because of that, Waters had better hope he gets a nice signing bonus to pay his lawyer fees. Otherwise he could be looking at some real time in jail.
No judge is going to throw someone in jail because a drunk guy threw a rock at a moving car, and he hit him for it. ESPECIALLY not a professional athlete, you know how these things work.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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I just think it's funny that that kid absolutely picked the WORST guy to throw a rock at. Can you imagine how scared the kid was when Waters stepped out of the car? Holy crap.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I woulda bap'd him too.
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