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Old 07-14-2007, 05:47 PM    (permalink
The Unseen
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
BBD is one of the few people who hates metrics for football like I do.
At first read, you confused me. I thought you meant that few people hate metrics. Lots of people hate metrics. Then I re-read, lol.

I don't mind metrics as long as they have their place: a different compilation of statistics. If you give them too much credit, you miss the point alot. It's the same thing with the traditional stats, too.
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Old 07-14-2007, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ghettosermon View Post
Trevor Pryce was so underrated last year it wasn't even funny, the fact he wasn't a pro bowler makes the pro bowl a complete joke.
This is by far the best post in this thread.
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Why does K.C. Joyner still have a job? Also, why do people listen to him?
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Underated: Kam Wimbley. 11 sacks as a rooke in his first year ever playing LB on an team with no helping pass rush, bad DBs, and a lousy D-Line. He was 3rd in DROY voting, yet the media oustide Cleveland ne'er breathed a breath about him.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
Why does K.C. Joyner still have a job? Also, why do people listen to him?
The same could be said for a Pete Prisco or a Skip Bayliss, you hate them so much but you have to read/watch what they say. Kind of like a vicious car wreck that you have to look at.
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Underated: Kam Wimbley. 11 sacks as a rooke in his first year ever playing LB on an team with no helping pass rush, bad DBs, and a lousy D-Line. He was 3rd in DROY voting, yet the media oustide Cleveland ne'er breathed a breath about him.
Had a lot to do with the fact that he's on a terrible team that gets little press to begin with. If he was on a contender or in a bigger market we'd be hearing more about him.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Underated: Kam Wimbley. 11 sacks as a rooke in his first year ever playing LB on an team with no helping pass rush, bad DBs, and a lousy D-Line. He was 3rd in DROY voting, yet the media oustide Cleveland ne'er breathed a breath about him.
I knew about him, I always follow former Seminoles!
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Moses View Post
Had a lot to do with the fact that he's on a terrible team that gets little press to begin with. If he was on a contender or in a bigger market we'd be hearing more about him.
That and the fact that he's a very quiet guy. It's a shame that you can't hardly get on the pro bowl squad if you are a young guy on a crappy team. The Browns sure sucked last year, but Sean Jones and Kam Wimbley were not the reason. Kinda stupid to not vote for somebody b/c they play for the Browns, Cards, Bills, etc.
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Underrated - Aaron Kampman - the guy is a complete workhorse and I'd be surprised if most of his sacks weren't individual effort sacks. He helped that Green Bay defense immensely and even though he's getting some credit, I still see him as under rated.

Overrated - Dwight Freeny - I know he was getting doubled up a lot last year and blah blah blah, but 1 pass rush move isn't going to cut it in the NFL, and he's had to learn that the hard way and I'd be shocked if he ever gets back up to the numbers he's put up in the past. He's a great speed rusher, but RBs can take care of those.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Underrated:
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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That and the fact that he's a very quiet guy. It's a shame that you can't hardly get on the pro bowl squad if you are a young guy on a crappy team. The Browns sure sucked last year, but Sean Jones and Kam Wimbley were not the reason. Kinda stupid to not vote for somebody b/c they play for the Browns, Cards, Bills, etc.
thats hardly not true...the cards had boldin, and fitz, boldin was a rookie, and i think fitz his 2nd year, they were terrible both years...dre bly made it with the lions, thats a bad excuse just because those players didnt make it...


did you see who sean jones would of had to beat out to make it?
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:57 AM    (permalink
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Aaron Kampman is the be-all and end-all of pass rushers. Just kidding, but he is a beast who is under appreciated. He led all defensive linemen in sacks and tackles.
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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KVB is one dimensional? He was top 5 in tackles for 4-3 DE's. Now I can guess where this conversation may be headed...."he takes himself out of plays a lot with wide pass rushes". That's true....and it is with many of the top pass rushers. Jevon did it all the time.

If anything, I think that's mostly on the DC. KVB doesn't do it all the time, I imagine it's all about what he's told to run that play. Surely it's not all ad libbing.

I looked up some QB pressure #'s, and KVB was up near the top last year just to get back to pass rushing talk again.

KVB had so little help from the other side of the line last year. We went through a ton of scrub, reject DE's.
I don't really agree that tackles disprove he is one dimensional, they are not even an official stat from what I can recall and don't say an awful lot. Tackles behind scrimmage would be a better indication.

All I'm saying is, if he is taking himself out of running plays for whatever reason and focusing on pass rushing, I would like to see more sacks for him to be "underrated", even if it is an overrated stat itself. One dimensional may have been a little harsh though - I really like him, but more pass rushing production like in 05 would be nice. If he does in 07, then we all know he'll be overlooked anyway so I guess he's an underrated player in waiting :)
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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underrated. obviously the 2 white guys. kampman and schobel
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Underrated = TRENT COLE
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't really agree that tackles disprove he is one dimensional, they are not even an official stat from what I can recall and don't say an awful lot. Tackles behind scrimmage would be a better indication.

All I'm saying is, if he is taking himself out of running plays for whatever reason and focusing on pass rushing, I would like to see more sacks for him to be "underrated", even if it is an overrated stat itself. One dimensional may have been a little harsh though - I really like him, but more pass rushing production like in 05 would be nice. If he does in 07, then we all know he'll be overlooked anyway so I guess he's an underrated player in waiting :)
Well he's not running down the field 20 yards to get all those tackles. He doesn't get bullied much when one on one against OT's. He usually handles TE's easily. He may not be as stout as Carter was at the line, but not many DE's are (or are 300 lbs). He did have 6 tfl's last year, and 7.5 the year before, both are very good #'s.

Our other DE's take many outside rushes that take them out of a running play. I have to think it's mostly Shwartz's calls to decide how the rush. Maybe that's not how it is, but it doesn't make sense that they're just out there freelancing.

If we get some help from the other side, surely KVB's #'s go back up when he doesn't get doubled as much. Maybe that happens in 08 after we draft Calias Campbell :)
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Defensive ends imo should be measured by impact plays, not necessarily, an INT or a sack, but all sorts of things they do like QB hurries and collapsing the pocket for other defensive lineman to make a play.

None of those things are shown in statistics that you see every day. I wouldn't bother with stats, especially for DEs, it doesn't show how dominant or how ignored they are.
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't bother with stats, especially for DEs, it doesn't show how dominant or how ignored they are.
Well, they do, you just have to pay STATS Inc. a ton of money to get the right ones, or keep them yourself.
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Precisely my point, statistics used by most sports writers and analysts to make their decisions are tackles and sacks, ff occasionally. That's not what shows the real story imo.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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As soon as I saw the criteria I knew Geathers would be on there.

I will say the fact that he had the 10.5 sacks didn't impress me because I knew several of them were in garbage time. With that said he has a ton of potential but last years numbers indicated that he played better than he actually did.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Mark Anderson sacks came most of the time when it was a passing down on 3rd down, how is that underrated when you except a pass?
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Aaron Schobel is definitley underrated. In the past 5 years, Schobel has had just 2.5 fewer sacks than Dwight Freeney. Schobel gets no publicity from anyone, even though he is one of the great pass rushers in the game

BTW, Schobel also has 52 more tackles than Freeney
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But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons

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Old 07-15-2007, 10:04 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
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Aaron Schobel is definitley underrated. In the past 5 years, Schobel has had just 2.5 fewer sacks than Dwight Freeney. Schobel gets no publicity from anyone, even though he is one of the great pass rushers in the game

BTW, Schobel also has 52 more tackles than Freeney
I'm guessing Schobel didn't have to deal with horrible DT play and constant doubles last year.
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm guessing Schobel didn't have to deal with horrible DT play and constant doubles last year.
then obviously you didnt watch a Bills game... The Bills had last year arguably the worst performance from thier DTs and Schobel was doubled most of the games, a reason why the opposite DE tandum of Denney and Kelsay had a total of 12 sacks themselves.
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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The Bills had last year arguably the worst performance from thier DTs
Obviously you didn't watch the Colts.
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