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Old 01-13-2007, 08:37 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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What type of impact is Mario having in the playoffs like Reggie Bush is doing right now?

This is something you cannot teach here.

Moose just said these plays are perfectly defended, but Reggie has something that you can't defend. Just like at USC for 2 years... and don't get me started on Vince Young's impact on a defenses game plan.

Teams don't plan for Mario Williams anymore than they do for Aaron Kampman, the 2006 NFC sack king.

I'd love to get back to every one of you who still thinks that Mario Williams is/or will be a better player than Bush & Young..... in a year and two years.....reminds me of Sam Bowie being defended in 1984.....
Good Lord. He's had two impressive runs. Talk to me when he consistently moves the ball at an all-world level game in and game out. And it's Mario's fault the Saints got a $50 million dollar QB, and happened to fall upon the best WR in the draft with the 4th last pick? Actually, talk to me when he shows ability to consistently run up the middle for a whole season. Talk to me when Vince Young throws for more TDs than he has picks. All this talk is so *********** premature.
Vince Young's game is not padded with stats, its padded with wins. Thats what he does. Talk to me when Mario helps the Texans win games.

He sure had alot to do with that game against Jacksonville, where the offense couldn't move the ball at all, and the D/ST scored 3 times. And he sure played great in a game that would have gotten them in the playoffs if they won. 42% completions with 0 TD and 2 INT is stuff of legend. He did everything he could.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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The rule (whether we agree with it or not) is that QB get too much credit when they win, and too much blame when they lose. For some reason, Vince Young is the exception to the rule. He's gets too much credit when he wins, but no blame when he loses.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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What type of impact is Mario having in the playoffs like Reggie Bush is doing right now?

This is something you cannot teach here.

Moose just said these plays are perfectly defended, but Reggie has something that you can't defend. Just like at USC for 2 years... and don't get me started on Vince Young's impact on a defenses game plan.

Teams don't plan for Mario Williams anymore than they do for Aaron Kampman, the 2006 NFC sack king.

I'd love to get back to every one of you who still thinks that Mario Williams is/or will be a better player than Bush & Young..... in a year and two years.....reminds me of Sam Bowie being defended in 1984.....
Good Lord. He's had two impressive runs. Talk to me when he consistently moves the ball at an all-world level game in and game out. And it's Mario's fault the Saints got a $50 million dollar QB, and happened to fall upon the best WR in the draft with the 4th last pick? Actually, talk to me when he shows ability to consistently run up the middle for a whole season. Talk to me when Vince Young throws for more TDs than he has picks. All this talk is so *********** premature.
Vince Young's game is not padded with stats, its padded with wins. Thats what he does. Talk to me when Mario helps the Texans win games.

He sure had alot to do with that game against Jacksonville, where the offense couldn't move the ball at all, and the D/ST scored 3 times. And he sure played great in a game that would have gotten them in the playoffs if they won. 42% completions with 0 TD and 2 INT is stuff of legend. He did everything he could.
He won 6 games in a row with the No Talent Tennessee Titans. You can point out his stats in the few games he lost as a starter. But Vince Young is rookie of the year if I do recall correctly.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Rookie of the Year is all about media hype. The award it self means nothing.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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The rule (whether we agree with it or not) is that QB get too much credit when they win, and too much blame when they lose.

Context is something some people just don't understand.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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The rule (whether we agree with it or not) is that QB get too much credit when they win, and too much blame when they lose.

Context is something some people just don't understand.
seriously? on this site?

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Old 01-13-2007, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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VY. 2750 total yds. 19 total td's 12 int's. 8-5 as starter.

Of course its premature to decide if Mario is going to be good. But dont say Vince Young has'nt already made a statement in this league.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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He's been better than expected, but he doesn't deserve credit for three of those "wins" he has. That is all anybody is saying. I am a big fan of Vince Young.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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By the way; the two impressive Reggie Bush runs, were the antithesis of what is required the ZBS. I cannot stress that enough, Kubiak was never interested in a player with his running style. There is a reason Mike Shannahan thought Laurence Maroney was the best RB in the class, because he can hit the holes with authority.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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He's been better than expected, but he doesn't deserve credit for three of those "wins" he has. That is all anybody is saying. I am a big fan of Vince Young.
Which games?
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm as big a VY fan as anyone, his major love fest is still a little premature though. And I know he's an excellent runner, and he had a great rookie year, but I don't care how great of a runner you are, if you have a Pass TD:INT ratio below one, that ain't good. It isn't bad for a rookie, as Matt Leinart also had below one, but if it doesn't improve in the next few years, he can't be considered a great QB. I doubt he has as easy a time running next year anyway. Teams will probably look at tape and devise a way to defend it better. If they can force him to stay in the pocket and pass, he'll need to prove he can consistently do that well. Which he still hasn't done.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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What type of impact is Mario having in the playoffs like Reggie Bush is doing right now?

This is something you cannot teach here.

Moose just said these plays are perfectly defended, but Reggie has something that you can't defend. Just like at USC for 2 years... and don't get me started on Vince Young's impact on a defenses game plan.

Teams don't plan for Mario Williams anymore than they do for Aaron Kampman, the 2006 NFC sack king.

I'd love to get back to every one of you who still thinks that Mario Williams is/or will be a better player than Bush & Young..... in a year and two years.....reminds me of Sam Bowie being defended in 1984.....
Good Lord. He's had two impressive runs. Talk to me when he consistently moves the ball at an all-world level game in and game out. And it's Mario's fault the Saints got a $50 million dollar QB, and happened to fall upon the best WR in the draft with the 4th last pick? Actually, talk to me when he shows ability to consistently run up the middle for a whole season. Talk to me when Vince Young throws for more TDs than he has picks. All this talk is so *********** premature.
Vince Young's game is not padded with stats, its padded with wins. Thats what he does. Talk to me when Mario helps the Texans win games.
EXACTLY.
Just WIN baby...... how are the Texans doing this year with Mario making a difference?
This draft had tons of impact players in it, but Mario was the biggest reach at #1 I have ever seen since Steve Entman.... but I am sure most of you kids have never heard of him.... just go back 12 months... last January, even February... he was penciled in to Green Bay at #5 in a lot of mocks, some lower.... then all of a sudden as a result of his impressive COMBINE he became a top 3 pick..... and then under the table to the suprise of ALL of us, the Texans broke the heart of their city and took Mario Williams. He was never a #1 overall talent. Still isn't. Never will be.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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He's been better than expected, but he doesn't deserve credit for three of those "wins" he has. That is all anybody is saying. I am a big fan of Vince Young.
Who deserves the credit? Jeff Fisher who was about to be fired before Vince straightened them out?
Travis Henry?
Those great WRs on the Texans? Name those great WRs.... the U of Texas has a better group of WRs than the Texans.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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VY. 2750 total yds. 19 total td's 12 int's. 8-5 as starter.

Of course its premature to decide if Mario is going to be good. But dont say Vince Young has'nt already made a statement in this league.
Certainly he's had an impact. And he has played better than his numbers have shown. But he hasn't played uber-amazing or anything. He isn't dominating and playing like a franchise QB up to this point. Sure he's been good in spurts, but Mario Williams has been good at times too. Did Vince Young have the better year? Obviously. Was it so much better that we know for a fact he was a better pick than Williams? No, not at all.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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By the way; the two impressive Reggie Bush runs, were the antithesis of what is required the ZBS. I cannot stress that enough, Kubiak was never interested in a player with his running style. There is a reason Mike Shannahan thought Laurence Maroney was the best RB in the class, because he can hit the holes with authority.
Why do all the Bush lovers just ignore the fact that he is the complete opposite of a ZBS runner? Multiple people have brought this up in this thread, but everyone seems to ignore it or respond with something along the lines of "OMG!!! He is like so good!!!" It's really frustrating.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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VY. 2750 total yds. 19 total td's 12 int's. 8-5 as starter.

Of course its premature to decide if Mario is going to be good. But dont say Vince Young has'nt already made a statement in this league.
Certainly he's had an impact. And he has played better than his numbers have shown. But he hasn't played uber-amazing or anything. He isn't dominating and playing like a franchise QB up to this point. Sure he's been good in spurts, but Mario Williams has been good at times too. Did Vince Young have the better year? Obviously. Was it so much better that we know for a fact he was a better pick than Williams? No, not at all.
True. I will give Mario one more year to prove he deserved to be chosen over the likes of some great players. If he doesnt post at least 8 sacks next year, I will be seriously disapointed.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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He's been better than expected, but he doesn't deserve credit for three of those "wins" he has. That is all anybody is saying. I am a big fan of Vince Young.
Which games?

The game against Philadelphia, Jacksonville and Indianapolis.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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He's been better than expected, but he doesn't deserve credit for three of those "wins" he has. That is all anybody is saying. I am a big fan of Vince Young.
Which games?

The game against Philadelphia, Jacksonville and Indianapolis.
Against Philly: 150 total yds 1 td, no TO's, game management.
Against the Jag's: 89 total yds, no td's no TO's. Not a great game, but he didnt make the big mistake.
Against Indy: 241 total yds, 2 td's 2 int's. One of the Int's was bogus, he played fairly well that game, I feel he won that game.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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He's been better than expected, but he doesn't deserve credit for three of those "wins" he has. That is all anybody is saying. I am a big fan of Vince Young.
Which games?

The game against Philadelphia, Jacksonville and Indianapolis.
Against Philly: 150 total yds 1 td, no TO's, game management.
Against the Jag's: 89 total yds, no td's no TO's. Not a great game, but he didnt make the big mistake.
Against Indy: 241 total yds, 2 td's 2 int's. One of the Int's was bogus, he played fairly well that game, I feel he won that game.
I don't remember alot about the Eagles game, so I can't comment on that.

Jacksonville game, he didn't make the big mistake, I'll give him that, but he didn't really do anything either. His Defense and Special teams won that game.
Indy game, I don't think he won it, but at the same time, he didn't really do anything to lose it either. He needed the 60 yard FG, but they won by 3, so it woulda been OT if not for that. That one was a push.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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The Eagles game, Travis Henry and McNabb's injury were the reason for the victories. The Colts game was Rob Bironas and again, Travis Henry.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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How about that Reggie Bush fumble... He sure showed his rare ability to make big mistakes. First the lateral in the Rose Bowl, the fumble against Pittsburgh and he gave the Eagles life.

I jest, a bit. But if you praise him for a couple good plays, then by precedent I can trash for him for a couple awful plays.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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Travis Henry ran for over 1000 yards, all when Young was starting. That sure does help. Young is so ridiculously overrated.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
How about that Reggie Bush fumble... He sure showed his rare ability to make big mistakes. First the lateral in the Rose Bowl, the fumble against Pittsburgh and he gave the Eagles life.

I jest, a bit. But if you praise him for a couple good plays, then by precedent I can trash for him for a couple awful plays.
I really wouldn't bring up college plays when talking to Bush supporters. But I'll keep that our little secret.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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What type of impact is Mario having in the playoffs like Reggie Bush is doing right now?

This is something you cannot teach here.

Moose just said these plays are perfectly defended, but Reggie has something that you can't defend. Just like at USC for 2 years... and don't get me started on Vince Young's impact on a defenses game plan.

Teams don't plan for Mario Williams anymore than they do for Aaron Kampman, the 2006 NFC sack king.

I'd love to get back to every one of you who still thinks that Mario Williams is/or will be a better player than Bush & Young..... in a year and two years.....reminds me of Sam Bowie being defended in 1984.....
Good Lord. He's had two impressive runs. Talk to me when he consistently moves the ball at an all-world level game in and game out. And it's Mario's fault the Saints got a $50 million dollar QB, and happened to fall upon the best WR in the draft with the 4th last pick? Actually, talk to me when he shows ability to consistently run up the middle for a whole season. Talk to me when Vince Young throws for more TDs than he has picks. All this talk is so *********** premature.
Vince Young's game is not padded with stats, its padded with wins. Thats what he does. Talk to me when Mario helps the Texans win games.

He sure had alot to do with that game against Jacksonville, where the offense couldn't move the ball at all, and the D/ST scored 3 times. And he sure played great in a game that would have gotten them in the playoffs if they won. 42% completions with 0 TD and 2 INT is stuff of legend. He did everything he could.
Yeah the jacksonville game wasn't great, but then again we had the ball three tmes in the second and threw the ball two times in the second half.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
How about that Reggie Bush fumble... He sure showed his rare ability to make big mistakes. First the lateral in the Rose Bowl, the fumble against Pittsburgh and he gave the Eagles life.

I jest, a bit. But if you praise him for a couple good plays, then by precedent I can trash for him for a couple awful plays.
I really wouldn't bring up college plays when talking to Bush supporters. But I'll keep that our little secret.
Oh no, bring it on. Then I can play the he only dominated in the weaksauce Pac-10 card.
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