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Old 08-06-2007, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 7-11 View Post
id take the current colts offense over that offense any day
I might too, just cuz of Peyton. I mean, he could be the best ever. Plus the Colts WRs absolutely blow the hell out of anything the Chiefs have, had, or probably ever will have, and if Ugoh doesn't suck, their line will be more than good enough.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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I might too, just cuz of Peyton. I mean, he could be the best ever. Plus the Colts WRs absolutely blow the hell out of anything the Chiefs have, had, or probably ever will have, and if Ugoh doesn't suck, their line will be more than good enough.
IMO it all comes back to the coaching staff and peyton. Howard Mudd has been plugging in late rd draft picks on that line for years and making it one of the best in the league, tom moore is probably one of the top 2 coordinators in the league who will never be a head coach and tony dungy, well hes tony dungy, one of the best personnel coaches in the league
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Point A: The #1 offense in 2004

The 04 Colts scored more total points (520 vs. 483) and averaged more points per game (32.625! vs. 30.1875), in 121 less plays (968 vs. 1089). For accuracy's sake, the yardage statistics for the 04 Chiefs - 2289 rushing yards, 4406 passing yards, 6695 total yards - and for the 04 Colts - 1852 rushing yards, 4623 passing yards, 6475 total yards.

The 04 Colts committed 17 turnovers, 10 interceptions and 7 fumbles, whereas the Chiefs committed 27, in the form of 17 interceptions and 10 fumbles. A good factor as to why the Colts were +19 in turnover differential and the fraud Chiefs were -7 in 2004. Those extra yards gained by 04 Chiefs offense aren't surprising.

And maybe most importantly, the Colts did it considering the following (analysis by me for another site):

Quote:
What's crazy is is that, if [2004] Manning was the stathound that critics claim(ed) him to be, he could have put up 55 TDs in 2004. Not many realize how much time he sat out that season, with the score so far ahead to protect the porous defense. He even left after the first (vanilla) drive against Denver in the regular season finale, because seedings were set and the Colts were set to play the Broncos in the Wild card round the next week.

Looking at time remaining when Jim Sorgi entered the game:
Q4 12:42 @CHI
Q3 1:15 @DET
Q4 9:53 TEN
Q1 12:16 @DEN

=> Manning sat out 96:06 of gametime in 2004. He effectively broke the TD and single season passer rating record in less than 14.5 games.

Of course, then the Colts unleashed the greatest quarterback to ever wear a jock in Jim Sorgi, which was completely unfair. Hence why the league informed the Colts after the 04 season to avoid playing Sorgi at all costs, to keep the game at a level playing field.
The Chiefs did have the superior running game, rushing for 2289 yards and 31 touchdowns; then again, that was the strength of their offense, given their offensive line and Priest Holmes as opposed to Trent Green and their paltry receiving core. Nevermind the 04 Colts' 51 passing touchdowns to the 04 Chiefs' 27, the Chiefs allowed 32 sacks to a staggering less 14 by the Colts. Despite the fact that the Colts threw for 217 more total passing yards and averaged 288.9 yds/g to the Chief's 275.4 yds/g - still considering the above point about Manning.

Could one argue that the 04 Chiefs had the tougher schedule? The 04 Colts averaged 38.24 points per game against the AFC West*, which dwarfed what they averaged against their own division (33.667 pts/g) in 6 games and just shy of what they averaged against the NFC West (39.5 pts/g) - a division as defensively-challenged as the 04 AFC West. The 04 Chiefs, on the other hand, averaged only 32.5 pts/g against the 04 AFC South and only 30.333 pts/g in their division: not close to what the record-breaking Colts offense did in similar circumstances, as noted above.

Also Football Outsiders' wonderful DVOA analysis confirms the above, ranking the 04 Colts offense (39.9%!) first in the league and the 04 Chiefs offense (28.7%) second. Notice the very considerable margin between the two.


*including the playoff game against the Broncos and excluding the Week 17 regular season game against the Broncos, which that the Colts essentially sat out; 35 pts vs Oakland (5-11), 35 pts vs Kansas City (7-9), 34 pts versus San Diego (12-4), and 49 pts vs Denver (10-6).

***

Point B: The 2004 Kansas City Chiefs as a viable comparison

Frankly, I don't think they are. They didn't exhibit the continued success year after year, before or after 2003, that the Colts have. Different situations. One might as well bring up the 2004 Minnesota Vikings or one-year wonders of similar ilk.

Last edited by Geo : 08-06-2007 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 08-06-2007, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by zoinks View Post
Coming off a 13-3 finish in 2003, the KC Chiefs had the NFL's #1 offense in 2004....4600 yards passing, 2300 yards rushing, and averaging 30 points per game.

Absolutely amazing...almost 7000 yards of offense.

The Chiefs' record for that year? 7-9

Don't think it can't happen again.
That Chiefs team hadn't won 50 games in the last 4 years. If they had, I might be a little more worried.
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Old 08-06-2007, 06:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
Point A: The #1 offense in 2004

The 04 Colts scored more total points (520 vs. 483) and averaged more points per game (32.625! vs. 30.1875), in 121 less plays (968 vs. 1089). For accuracy's sake, the yardage statistics for the 04 Chiefs - 2289 rushing yards, 4406 passing yards, 6695 total yards - and for the 04 Colts - 1852 rushing yards, 4623 passing yards, 6475 total yards.

The 04 Colts committed 17 turnovers, 10 interceptions and 7 fumbles, whereas the Chiefs committed 27, in the form of 17 interceptions and 10 fumbles. A good factor as to why the Colts were +19 in turnover differential and the fraud Chiefs were -7 in 2004. Those extra yards gained by 04 Chiefs offense aren't surprising.

And maybe most importantly, the Colts did it considering the following (analysis by me for another site):



The Chiefs did have the superior running game, rushing for 2289 yards and 31 touchdowns; then again, that was the strength of their offense, given their offensive line and Priest Holmes as opposed to Trent Green and their paltry receiving core. Nevermind the 04 Colts' 51 passing touchdowns to the 04 Chiefs' 27, the Chiefs allowed 32 sacks to a staggering less 14 by the Colts. Despite the fact that the Colts threw for 217 more total passing yards and averaged 288.9 yds/g to the Chief's 275.4 yds/g - still considering the above point about Manning.

Could one argue that the 04 Chiefs had the tougher schedule? The 04 Colts averaged 38.24 points per game against the AFC West*, which dwarfed what they averaged against their own division (33.667 pts/g) in 6 games and just shy of what they averaged against the NFC West (39.5 pts/g) - a division as defensively-challenged as the 04 AFC West. The 04 Chiefs, on the other hand, averaged only 32.5 pts/g against the 04 AFC South and only 30.333 pts/g in their division: not close to what the record-breaking Colts offense did in similar circumstances, as noted above.

Also Football Outsiders' wonderful DVOA analysis confirms the above, ranking the 04 Colts offense (39.9%!) first in the league and the 04 Chiefs offense (28.7%) second. Notice the very considerable margin between the two.


*including the playoff game against the Broncos and excluding the Week 17 regular season game against the Broncos, which that the Colts essentially sat out; 35 pts vs Oakland (5-11), 35 pts vs Kansas City (7-9), 34 pts versus San Diego (12-4), and 49 pts vs Denver (10-6).

***

Point B: The 2004 Kansas City Chiefs as a viable comparison

Frankly, I don't think they are. They didn't exhibit the continued success year after year, before or after 2003, that the Colts have. Different situations. One might as well bring up the 2004 Minnesota Vikings or one-year wonders of similar ilk.
well, that guy was comprehensively out argued, good effort but zoinks
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Old 08-06-2007, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Colts signed third-round DT Quinn Pitcock to a four-year contract.

"The Goat" missed the first week of training camp with a bum hamstring and had been on camp/PUP. The Colts want Pitcock to be a pass rusher from the interior initally, but he should become an every-down weapon down the line.

rotoworld


I didn't feel like looking through all 3 pages but it looks like Pitcock has passed his physical if they signed him.

Still doesn't look good for the Colts defense. I think Tank Johnson would be a great signing for them except for the suspension he would have to serve before joining the team.

I think they need to look for someone that gets cut at the end of a camp and try to bring in some extra depth.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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To reiterate: this is a very big deal/loss for the Colts. One that I'd argue bests any "loss" the defense suffered this off-season.

McFarland is the only legit starting NT on the roster, starting or otherwise. At the current moment, the team is left with Dan Klecko and two unproven rookies in Quinn Pitcock and Ed Johnson. Which is to say, a poor situation to be in currently.

As for Tank Johnson, I really think that idea should be put to rest. Though don't worry, the dumbass Colts fans (unfortunately there's a good number of them nowadays) have already begun clamoring "we should get Tank now!!!" Mind you, many of these are the same fans who said "Fire Dungy now!!!" last year.

(I really loathe a good part of the Colts' fanbase, thankfully the Colts fans we have on NFLDC are steps above them.)

I wonder how long until members of the esteemed media mention Warren Sapp, despite the fact that he's a 3 tech and the Colts need a blasted NT. lol, I'm not joking, it happened last year too.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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To reiterate: this is a very big deal/loss for the Colts. One that I'd argue bests any "loss" the defense suffered this off-season.

McFarland is the only legit starting NT on the roster, starting or otherwise. At the current moment, the team is left with Dan Klecko and two unproven rookies in Quinn Pitcock and Ed Johnson. Which is to say, a poor situation to be in currently.

As for Tank Johnson, I really think that idea should be put to rest. Though don't worry, the dumbass Colts fans (unfortunately there's a good number of them nowadays) have already begun clamoring "we should get Tank now!!!" Mind you, many of these are the same fans who said "Fire Dungy now!!!" last year.

(I really loathe a good part of the Colts' fanbase, thankfully the Colts fans we have on NFLDC are steps above them.)

I wonder how long until members of the esteemed media mention Warren Sapp, despite the fact that he's a 3 tech and the Colts need a blasted NT. lol, I'm not joking, it happened last year too.
The only thing I can think of is to look within the roster for help a la the Patriots back in 04 when they used Troy Brown as a CB. Maybe they can use one of their OL as a DT.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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The Colts should sign Tank. I was just thinking how they didn't have enough malcontents and distractions. Plus, who else is going to supply the team with guns now that Mike Doss is gone?
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Kendrick Allen is still on the market. He won't provide any pass rush, but he can help the run defense.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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I think there's a good chance the Colts opt to go with the rookies, hoping/seeing them step up like we saw many rookie defensive tackles do last year.

The most immediate example that comes to mind being Barry Cofield of the Giants, an exceptional 4th round pick for them out of Northwestern. But there's also Domata Peko for the Bengals, both the tackles for the Redskins (Montgomery and Golston), and so on.

Maybe the team brings back UDFA Quintin Echols to compete with Quinn Pitcock and Ed Johnson.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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The Colts should sign Tank. I was just thinking how they didn't have enough malcontents and distractions. Plus, who else is going to supply the team with guns now that Mike Doss is gone?
Tank is a good idea. The Colts defense didn't turn on the switch till the end of last year anyways so when he comes off his suspension then they can actually play some defense.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Kendrick Allen is still on the market. He won't provide any pass rush, but he can help the run defense.
Allen was signed by the Bengals.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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there goes that idea.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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The Bears will trade you Antonio Garay for a 7th rounder and a cheese sandwich.

And before you say I'm crazy, we got a 7th rounder last year for Lennie Friedman, and he played for Duke.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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The Packers could move Corey Williams. With Ryan Pickett, Colin Cole, and rookie Justin Harrell already on the roster Williams is expendable.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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You forgot Johnny Jolly!

Turn in your cheesehead immediately.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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We'll trade William Joseph for a 5th round pick.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:59 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
You forgot Johnny Jolly!

Turn in your cheesehead immediately.
I just mentioned players that make an impact; Jolly not so much.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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We'll trade William Joseph for a 5th round pick.
The more I think about it, Jerry Reese needs to make this happen. Sell the "he was a 1st round pick" mumbo jumbo to them, and the fact that he's decent against the run, and theyre desperate, we might be able to pull it off.

We got Jay Alford in the draft anyway, we can lose Joseph. Do it Reese. DO IT.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
Geo
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If the Giants trade Joseph away, who will cover the opposing RBs?

:D
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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The more I think about it, Jerry Reese needs to make this happen. Sell the "he was a 1st round pick" mumbo jumbo to them, and the fact that he's decent against the run, and theyre desperate, we might be able to pull it off.

We got Jay Alford in the draft anyway, we can lose Joseph. Do it Reese. DO IT.
HAHA! Quoting yourself and trying convince yourself that what you said was right and should happen.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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If the Giants trade Joseph away, who will cover the opposing RBs?

:D
Oh God...just when I erased that horrible memory from my head :(


Damn you Tim Lewis. Damn you to hell.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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HAHA! Quoting yourself and trying convince yourself that what you said was right and should happen.
haha. well in all seriousness, it is a plausible trade. Reese needs to make it happen.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/gia...ng_update.html

Quote:
Best moment of practice: On one play, RB Brandon Jacobs ran a pass pattern into the flat and was covered by DE William Joseph. Much to Jacobs’ dismay, Manning threw to someone else. That led Jacobs to yell, “Come on, man! I got Willie Jo out here with me!”
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