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Old 08-14-2007, 12:39 AM    (permalink
JK17
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Originally Posted by BigDawg819 View Post
Apparently its too late.


Well if we're making absurd and ridiculous predictions, Prescott Burgess will have 30 sacks this year. I'm mean since Reggie Bush can come close to 2500 yards since he's having a good training camp then Burgess can have 30 sacks because he's having a great training camp.
I wouldn't rule out a 12 interception season from Weddle either this year....and don't be shocked when Vincent Jackson gets more receptions then any receiver in history...
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Bigdawg, JK17, for your blasphemies against Elway I have sentenced you to 3 weeks of constant neg repping from me. Let this stand as a warning to all who would dare suggest Denver is not the NFL's best team ever.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
Bigdawg, JK17, for your blasphemies against Elway I have sentenced you to 3 weeks of constant neg repping from me. Let this stand as a warning to all who would dare suggest Denver is not the NFL's best team ever.
I was just kidding of course but yet not so much. We Baltimoreans don't forget those that disrespect us!


But hey 2 out of 5 ain't bad...........................Even though Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, and Brady are undefeated........................ :D
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Bigdawg, JK17, for your blasphemies against Elway I have sentenced you to 3 weeks of constant neg repping from me. Let this stand as a warning to all who would dare suggest Denver is not the NFL's best team ever.
How could I be so foolish....

Never again will I make such a mistake!
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Ooooh God. *shakes head*
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
Bigdawg, JK17, for your blasphemies against Elway I have sentenced you to 3 weeks of constant neg repping from me. Let this stand as a warning to all who would dare suggest Denver is not the NFL's best team ever.
I apologize as well.................. ;)


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Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
Quote:
Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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For the record, I dont think Bush will get 2500 this year, I dont expect him to come close. But I do expect he will hit that number, perhaps numerous times, throughout his career.

But yes, I am on the Bush bandwagon. You guys are saying lets wait before we annoint him the second coming of christ, but I dont feel the need to wait. Ive seen enough from him that Im convinced he is going to be a legendary type player. You can say Im buying into the hype or Reggie hasnt proved it yet or whatever and thats fine, some people need to wait for Bush to put up 2500 before they'll believe he can do it. What Im saying though, is that there is no denying Bush' talent, and none of u can say Bush isnt very capable of breaking the records, its certainly not "impossible". And seriously though, everyone needs to get off Reggie when it comes to his rookie season, everyone wants to act like hes not gonna do great things because he "only" had 1300 yards and 3.6 ypc in his rookie year. After all, it was his ROOKIE year, no one was expecting him to put up huge numbers in his rookie season, especially sharing the rock with Deuce. But from the games I watched him play, I saw all I need to feel confident he is going to be a dominant force in this league for a long time.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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For the record, I dont think Bush will get 2500 this year, I dont expect him to come close. But I do expect he will hit that number, perhaps numerous times, throughout his career.

But yes, I am on the Bush bandwagon. You guys are saying lets wait before we annoint him the second coming of christ, but I dont feel the need to wait. Ive seen enough from him that Im convinced he is going to be a legendary type player. You can say Im buying into the hype or Reggie hasnt proved it yet or whatever and thats fine, some people need to wait for Bush to put up 2500 before they'll believe he can do it. What Im saying though, is that there is no denying Bush' talent, and none of u can say Bush isnt very capable of breaking the records, its certainly not "impossible". And seriously though, everyone needs to get off Reggie when it comes to his rookie season, everyone wants to act like hes not gonna do great things because he "only" had 1300 yards and 3.6 ypc in his rookie year. After all, it was his ROOKIE year, no one was expecting him to put up huge numbers in his rookie season, especially sharing the rock with Deuce. But from the games I watched him play, I saw all I need to feel confident he is going to be a dominant force in this league for a long time.
Ehhh... I'm probably one of the biggest Bush supporters on the board. I was a huge fan of his as a prospect and when he fell to my favorite team's lap... well, it was surreal. That said, people are going to look at him one of two ways it seems so when it comes to him I try to avoid discussing him because it always end a tremendous debate with neither side changing their opinion.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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For the record, I dont think Bush will get 2500 this year, I dont expect him to come close. But I do expect he will hit that number, perhaps numerous times, throughout his career.

But yes, I am on the Bush bandwagon. You guys are saying lets wait before we annoint him the second coming of christ, but I dont feel the need to wait. Ive seen enough from him that Im convinced he is going to be a legendary type player. You can say Im buying into the hype or Reggie hasnt proved it yet or whatever and thats fine, some people need to wait for Bush to put up 2500 before they'll believe he can do it. What Im saying though, is that there is no denying Bush' talent, and none of u can say Bush isnt very capable of breaking the records, its certainly not "impossible". And seriously though, everyone needs to get off Reggie when it comes to his rookie season, everyone wants to act like hes not gonna do great things because he "only" had 1300 yards and 3.6 ypc in his rookie year. After all, it was his ROOKIE year, no one was expecting him to put up huge numbers in his rookie season, especially sharing the rock with Deuce. But from the games I watched him play, I saw all I need to feel confident he is going to be a dominant force in this league for a long time.

I think Reggie is an enormous talent but I won't annoint him the next Faulk until he proves he can do it by himself like Faulk did. Reggie had great success at USC, but with the help of Lendale White, he had an awesome rookie campaign in New Orleans, but with the help of Deuce McAllister. Reggie needs to show that when given the opportunity, he can carry the load by himself and I don't see it happening what with the drafting of Pittman from OSU. Reggie will always be flashy but never the guy in an offense and thats why I don't see him coming close to 2500 yards in a year without the help of return yardage ala a Brian Mitchell and with Reggie's talent I don't see him staying on the return team for years to come.
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
Quote:
Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Ehhh... I'm probably one of the biggest Bush supporters on the board. I was a huge fan of his as a prospect and when he fell to my favorite team's lap... well, it was surreal. That said, people are going to look at him one of two ways it seems so when it comes to him I try to avoid discussing him because it always end a tremendous debate with neither side changing their opinion.
Welcome to the world of individuality.
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
Quote:
Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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For the record, I dont think Bush will get 2500 this year, I dont expect him to come close. But I do expect he will hit that number, perhaps numerous times, throughout his career.

But yes, I am on the Bush bandwagon. You guys are saying lets wait before we annoint him the second coming of christ, but I dont feel the need to wait. Ive seen enough from him that Im convinced he is going to be a legendary type player. You can say Im buying into the hype or Reggie hasnt proved it yet or whatever and thats fine, some people need to wait for Bush to put up 2500 before they'll believe he can do it. What Im saying though, is that there is no denying Bush' talent, and none of u can say Bush isnt very capable of breaking the records, its certainly not "impossible". And seriously though, everyone needs to get off Reggie when it comes to his rookie season, everyone wants to act like hes not gonna do great things because he "only" had 1300 yards and 3.6 ypc in his rookie year. After all, it was his ROOKIE year, no one was expecting him to put up huge numbers in his rookie season, especially sharing the rock with Deuce. But from the games I watched him play, I saw all I need to feel confident he is going to be a dominant force in this league for a long time.
You think he's better then Tomlinson thought based on what you've seen, or even Steven Jackson? Or Marshall Faulk, Barry Sanders, etc. all the greats? Because by saying 2500 is within range, your saying he's surpassed or will surpass all those players, and there is no way to justify that, whatsoever at this point in his career. No its not impossible that he breaks the records. Its not impossible LT or SJ don't do it either. But they won't , because its so damn improbable. In LT's best season (yardage wise) he had about 1650 yards and about 700 receiving yards, which gave him about 2350 yards....you think Reggie Bush can alredy pass LT's best season, one in which he had 100 catches and 300+ carries? Even last year in LT's record setting year, arguably one of the best seasons ever by a RB, he had 1815 yards and 508 receiving yards, a total of 2323 yards....you think Bush can top that? He's given no reason whatsoever to show he can.

Dominant Force? Yeah Probably. The Greatest ever, as some of these predictions would indicate he is? Hell No.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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Welcome to the world of individuality.
Please. There's individuality and there's just being stubborn and close-minded. Nice try, though.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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You think he's better then Tomlinson thought based on what you've seen, or even Steven Jackson? Or Marshall Faulk, Barry Sanders, etc. all the greats? Because by saying 2500 is within range, your saying he's surpassed or will surpass all those players, and there is no way to justify that, whatsoever at this point in his career. No its not impossible that he breaks the records. Its not impossible LT or SJ don't do it either. But they won't , because its so damn improbable. In LT's best season (yardage wise) he had about 1650 yards and about 700 receiving yards, which gave him about 2350 yards....you think Reggie Bush can alredy pass LT's best season, one in which he had 100 catches and 300+ carries? Even last year in LT's record setting year, arguably one of the best seasons ever by a RB, he had 1815 yards and 508 receiving yards, a total of 2323 yards....you think Bush can top that? He's given no reason whatsoever to show he can.

Dominant Force? Yeah Probably. The Greatest ever, as some of these predictions would indicate he is? Hell No.
Well, yes, I think Reggie Bush at the end of the day will be among the top 5-10 running backs to ever play the game, and he could end up being considered the best ever....Im not gonna say I think he'll be better than LT, because if LT keeps up what hes doing, he could go down as the greatest ever. I will however confidently predict that he will be better than the likes of Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson. Truth is, this is a matter of opinion, how good we think Bush will turn out to be, and its largely guesswork...And yes, there are plenty of reasons to believe Bush will indeed be as good as I say.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Well, yes, I think Reggie Bush at the end of the day will be among the top 5-10 running backs to ever play the game, and he could end up being considered the best ever....Im not gonna say I think he'll be better than LT, because if LT keeps up what hes doing, he could go down as the greatest ever. I will however confidently predict that he will be better than the likes of Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson. Truth is, this is a matter of opinion, how good we think Bush will turn out to be, and its largely guesswork...And yes, there are plenty of reasons to believe Bush will indeed be as good as I say.
Correction. If LT continues to do what he's been doing, he will go down as the best ever.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Well, yes, I think Reggie Bush at the end of the day will be among the top 5-10 running backs to ever play the game, and he could end up being considered the best ever....Im not gonna say I think he'll be better than LT, because if LT keeps up what hes doing, he could go down as the greatest ever. I will however confidently predict that he will be better than the likes of Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson. Truth is, this is a matter of opinion, how good we think Bush will turn out to be, and its largely guesswork...And yes, there are plenty of reasons to believe Bush will indeed be as good as I say.
And there's plenty of reasons to think he'll be just another good player. You could make an argument for Steven Jackson to be that good too, but its more likely he won't. It's hard to be that good, but who knows. Bush could do it. But it's way to early to say he is now....but its your opinion.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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do me a favor and dont act like Jackson is just as talented as Bush. Obviously Bush is one of the most talented players weve ever seen. Whether he turns that into becoming one of the greatest players weve ever seen is another matter, and you dont need to look any farther than Vick to see that being a once in a lifetime talent doesnt necessarily add up to greatness. But dont downplay Reggies talent, as if hes just another good running back, hes obviously a special player.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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do me a favor and dont act like Jackson is just as talented as Bush. Obviously Bush is one of the most talented players weve ever seen. Whether he turns that into becoming one of the greatest players weve ever seen is another matter, and you dont need to look any farther than Vick to see that being a once in a lifetime talent doesnt necessarily add up to greatness. But dont downplay Reggies talent, as if hes just another good running back, hes obviously a special player.
I'm not trying to say Jackson necesarily has the same physical tools, as in speed as Bush, but as far as running backs go, he's done just as much as Bush has so far. I didn't mean to imply they were equally talented, Bush was such a highly touted prospect for a reason, but in terms of what they will actually accomplish its much more likely Jackson hits the 2500 then Bush, in my opinion at least.
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Old 08-14-2007, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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Well Bush has only been in the league 1 year so how is it fair to compare them like that? Jackson has had 3 years. And it took Jackson until his 3rd to really bust out. He played well in his first 2 years but it took him til his 3rd year to become a star player. And also, it is not just speed that Bush has over Jackson and the rest of the running backs. I shouldnt have to explain it...if youve seen him run you should understand that he is just a special player, he has the "it" factor. Yes, hes fast as lightning but lets not simplify his talent to that. After all, Michael Bennett had the speed also, his talent cant even compare to Reggies though.

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Old 08-14-2007, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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His ypc is inflated by his ability to take end arounds, a luxury, as I said, the other backs don't have. And in what universe is Reggie a "pro bowl type back"? He hasn't done squat. He looks like he might become something good, but he is not "pro bowl type" yet. I thought all the Reggie nut huggers went away when he didn't average 8 ypc and get 50 TDs last year, guess I was wrong. You really think he's better than a guy who could make a case for best ever in Tomlinson? Or a surefire HOF in Faulk? Wait till he breaks a run over 20 yards, and averages 4 ypc while taking handoffs from behind the QB instead of from the WR position.
That is not true. Bush did not have as many end arounds as you think. In fact, I only count three, all three ending up in touchdowns. He the one against Pittsburgh, the one against the Giants and the one against the Falcons where he tossed it back to Devery Henderson who scored. Most of the time, he would fake the end around and Drew would just hand the ball to Deuce. In fact, a lot of Saints fans were upset that he was not given the ball more on end arounds rather than just being used as a decoy on the play.

Also, who said he was better than Faulk or Tomlison? Some people truly hate...I am going to bookmark this thread and we'll talk as season's end.
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Ehhh... I'm probably one of the biggest Bush supporters on the board. I was a huge fan of his as a prospect and when he fell to my favorite team's lap... well, it was surreal. That said, people are going to look at him one of two ways it seems so when it comes to him I try to avoid discussing him because it always end a tremendous debate with neither side changing their opinion.
Exactly! Bush is either loved or hated. It's pathetic. It takes away all objectivity. Bush seems like the only player whose entire career has been judged based on the first half of last season. People forget that Tomlison only averaged 3.6 yards a carry his first season. Of course, the response to that will be that he had a poor supporting cast whereas Bush was surrounded by stars. Problem is, Tomlison line, outside of McNeil, has not really changed much. Also, who knew that Marques Colston would blow up? Who thought that Deuce would come back from an ACL injury and do well given all the players that did not? Who thought Drew Brees would be healthy enough to play last season, particularly at the level he did? Who thought that Devery Henderson would prove to be a big play threat after sitting on the bench for his first two seasons in the league? Who thought that Terrance Copper, a player cut by the Cowboys at the end of training camp, would contribute the way he did? The Saints did it with cast-offs and unknowns and a great deal of that was because of Bush's presence on the team and Brees' recovery. But revisionist will go back and say that the Saints had so many stars on the team. Well, that's funny given that EVERY publication predicted them to go like 3-13 and to look anemic on both offense and defense.

Point is, you cannot judge a player based on one season or one half of a season since Bush was much improved in the second half of last year and looks to be even better this year. But so it goes. We'll just have to wait until the end of the season and, ultimately, his career, to see what type of player he becomes.
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Exactly! Bush is either loved or hated. It's pathetic. It takes away all objectivity. Bush seems like the only player whose entire career has been judged based on the first half of last season. People forget that Tomlison only averaged 3.6 yards a carry his first season. Of course, the response to that will be that he had a poor supporting cast whereas Bush was surrounded by stars. Problem is, Tomlison line, outside of McNeil, has not really changed much.
Okay, Bush is not either loved or hated by everyone, but speaking of taking away objectivity, you don't think being on Reggie Bush's nuts is taking away your objectivity in the matter? How many times, in this thread alone have I said he's a special player, but 2500 yards is out of reach. Just because everyone isn't on their knees for Reggie Bush, or crowning him the greatest of all time yet, doesn't mean people don't appreciate his talent or abilities. The fact that you would even compare LT to Bush at this point in his career is insulting, Reggie has done nothing to show that he belongs in the same sentence as LT. Your ypc argument is unfair, you keep ignoring the obvious differences in the situation.


Their Quarterbacks for instance. Having a good Quarterback means teams have to focus on things other then you. It means you have more freedom and the defense can't pay as much attention to you.
Doug Flutie vs. Drew Brees
Flutie had 15 touchdowns, and 18 interceptions that season, not exactly an intimidating prescence at quarterback. The Saints had Drew Brees, who had 26 TD's and 11 interceptions, threw for 1000 more yards then Flutie, and and completed ten percent more of his passes. They are uncomparable.

Another back in the backfield. Even if the Saints did have equal quarterbacks, Bush's attention was split in half, because he benefited from another star player in the backfield Deuce McAllister. Deuce had 244 carries for over 1000 yards, and ten touchdowns. Quite the attention grabber. You know who LT got to split attention with his rookie year? Terrell Fletcher. Who got 27 carries for 109 yards and 0 TD. Not quite the same benefit there either.

What about their offensive lines....Tomlinson's hasn't changed much? Olivea drafted in 2004. Goff, brought in through free agency. Hardwick drafted in 2004. Dielman undrafted free agent...Not sure of the year but after 2001. McNeill rookie drafted in 2006. Everyone of those people are different from his rookie year, so I don't know where you think that Tomlinson has his same line, but you are sorely misinformed. No, there is no way Tomlinson's 2001 O-Line approached What Bush had in 06. I can't find names or remember them, but I'm not dumb enough of a fan to not know that up until last year, San Diego's line never really accomplished anything at all.

That's not saying Bush isn't a good runningback. But his 2006 season is not comparable in anyway to Tomlinson's 2001, so don't compare them.

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Also, who knew that Marques Colston would blow up? Who thought that Deuce would come back from an ACL injury and do well given all the players that did not? Who thought Drew Brees would be healthy enough to play last season, particularly at the level he did? Who thought that Devery Henderson would prove to be a big play threat after sitting on the bench for his first two seasons in the league? Who thought that Terrance Copper, a player cut by the Cowboys at the end of training camp, would contribute the way he did? The Saints did it with cast-offs and unknowns and a great deal of that was because of Bush's presence on the team and Brees' recovery. But revisionist will go back and say that the Saints had so many stars on the team. Well, that's funny given that EVERY publication predicted them to go like 3-13 and to look anemic on both offense and defense.
Cast-offs and unkowns? Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister??!?! Drew Brees was let go becasue management wanted Rivers, not because anyone felt Brees wasn't a good quarterback. It's his performance that boosted the wide receivers, who were unknowns, save Joe Horn, to the level they were at. Not Reggie Bush, unless you want to explain to me how Reggie Bush made Colston, Copper, and Henderson all better. Deuce was a former all-pro running back, and he returned to a good level, don't make it sound like the guy was a nobody tahts ridiculous.

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Point is, you cannot judge a player based on one season or one half of a season since Bush was much improved in the second half of last year and looks to be even better this year. But so it goes. We'll just have to wait until the end of the season and, ultimately, his career, to see what type of player he becomes.
Jesus, you can't judge him on a half season, exactly. So don't go around bragging that Bush is the best thing since sliced bread, because he had one good half season. And I don't care what he looks to be, because all that means is he's having a good camp. Tons of players have good camps, and nothing changes once the season starts.

And again, don't take this as a shot, that Reggie Bush isn't good or anything, but comparing him to Tomlinson, like you just did, or saying you can't judge him on half a season, when you've done the same, just with the other half.
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Brandon Marshall will be better than Jerry Rice. Don't even argue with it. From what I saw last year, he makes amazing catches and can break big runs after the catch. He's a surefire HOF, I bet he can get 2500 receiving yards with the best QB ever, Jay Cutler, throwing to him. Oh, and Jarvis Moss will destroy the sack record, Marcus Thomas is better than Warren Sapp ever was, and Travis Henry is going for 2000 yards this year. Don't even argue it, you know it will happen.
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Marshall will be better than Jerry Rice. Don't even argue with it. From what I saw last year, he makes amazing catches and can break big runs after the catch. He's a surefire HOF, I bet he can get 2500 receiving yards with the best QB ever, Jay Cutler, throwing to him. Oh, and Jarvis Moss will destroy the sack record, Marcus Thomas is better than Warren Sapp ever was, and Travis Henry is going for 2000 yards this year. Don't even argue it, you know it will happen.
Man that could arguably be the greatest Madden season ever! :D
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 08-14-2007, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Marshall will be better than Jerry Rice. Don't even argue with it. From what I saw last year, he makes amazing catches and can break big runs after the catch. He's a surefire HOF, I bet he can get 2500 receiving yards with the best QB ever, Jay Cutler, throwing to him. Oh, and Jarvis Moss will destroy the sack record, Marcus Thomas is better than Warren Sapp ever was, and Travis Henry is going for 2000 yards this year. Don't even argue it, you know it will happen.
mr. sarcasm....lol

Lets see Reggie Bush has been one of the most highly touted players at every level, he had an incredible college career, won the heisman, went at the top of the draft, is obviously one of the most talented backs weve ever seen and had a strong rookie year. yet youre comparing people predicting Bush to be an incredible player to Brandon Marshall and Jarvis Moss? get real man
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Old 08-14-2007, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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mr. sarcasm....lol

Lets see Reggie Bush has been one of the most highly touted players at every level, he had an incredible college career, won the heisman, went at the top of the draft, is obviously one of the most talented backs weve ever seen and had a strong rookie year. yet youre comparing people predicting Bush to be an incredible player to Brandon Marshall and Jarvis Moss? get real man
Ryan Leaf was a highly touted player who had a great college career and went at the top of the draft. And I wouldn't call Bush's rookie year strong, it was decent(as a runner. And that's what he is, a running back). For a strong rookie year, IMO he'd need to get over 4 ypc(especially in that offense) and break a run over 20 yards at least once. Like Mike Bell, for instance. And had a much better rookie year as a runner. And he was undrafted.
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