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Old 09-08-2007, 11:18 PM    (permalink
DaBears9654
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Giants as NFC East champs? Plan my funeral b/c I'm going to die laughing at that prediction. They'll have a 30s win %, ie: 5 or 6 wins.
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:20 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by TacticaLion View Post
Those that actually read and understand my arguments disagree with you.
Who would that be exactly?
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Sounds more like a fagget than a respectable poster.
Yeaaaah.... I'm not one to say much about name calling or anything like that (mostly cause I do it all the time) but they tend to draw the line at racist and/or homophobic slurs. Just a heads up.
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Yeaaaah.... I'm not one to say much about name calling or anything like that (mostly cause I do it all the time) but they tend to draw the line at racist and/or homophobic slurs. Just a heads up.
agreed.
that's calling for a nice little suspension right there.
way to start thy posting career sunshine.
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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and the fun begins....

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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
3) Jets- This team is SCREAMING 6-10. First of all, the left side of the offensive line is in shambles. Jacob Bender was HORRENDOUS in the preseason...
The left side is not in shambles... First off I don't think you watched the pre-season because Jacobs wasn't horrendous... Yes he struggled but saying he was horrendous is just wrong. The Jets aren't idiots, so by starting him they are saying that they think he can handle it. We have Barnes (FB) and Ryan (TE) who will be covering Jacobs ass until he grasps it so I think the left side of our line should be fine.

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and the D-Brick over Matt Leinart pick in the 06 draft is starting to look like a typical Jets draft-day gaffe.
The Jets new management has not messed up on a draft in YEARS.... D'Brick didn't do bad last year (minus the Bills game).

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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
And all you have to do is look at the schedule. Last year the Jets were awarded a playoff spot with the easiest schedule in the league (they lost to Cleveland, too). How's this for pressure? Beat Cleo Lemon and you're in the playoffs. Real tough.
They didn't have the easiest schedule last year. Every game we lost was close (minus the jax and buff game).

NE 24 vs. NYJ 17 (they got BLOWN out) idiot
IND 31 vs. NYJ 28 (super bowl champs?)
Jacksonville game
CLE 20 vs. NYJ 13 (Baker made the catch bad call... good game for cle bad for the jets)
CHI 10 vs. NYJ 0 (we got shut out but the game was close much like the score)
Buffalo game

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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
And I haven't even gotten to the QB yet. Chad Pennington is horrible. Terrible. Not an NFL QB. Smart guy- maybe, doesn't have an NFL arm- never did. Peter King rated him like #105ish in his top 500 players in the NFL list. What? Chad Pennington is the 105th best football player in the world? There are only 104 players I would rather have than Chad Pennington? Did he watch the Jets at all last year?
Chad was in the NFL for his smarts before the shoulder injuries... His arm isn't too good but if you watched last year he can make long throws... There are other QBs i'd want leading the team, but Chad is aqueduct for the job.

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Thomas Jones will struggle behind that O-line...
i guess you didn't do research on the o line... D'Brick hasn't struggled in run blocking... Jacobs has been called a run blocking machine by scouts and Jets' officials and the right side plus mangold is very solid all around...

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and the defense (like Revis and Rhodes- hate everybody else), will keep them in some games.
You hate Vilma? You hate Ellis? You hate Thomas? You hate Roberston? any reason why? or are you just saying that for the hell of it....

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6-10. Done.
completely wrong. done.
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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I hope it made you laugh, that was part of my aim. As for the disagreement, I don't expect for many to agree with my predictions. Thanks for reading.
there's 4 pages in this thread of people disagreeing with you... every person that does you call a name...
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Lol that's funny let's see what Matt Leinart brought to the table last year as a rookie...

A very very mediocre completion percentage, a very low and almost embarrassing QB rating for a "franchise QB" and more interceptions than touchdowns, all with two of the best wide receivers in the NFL.

Meanwhile D'Brick stuffed some of the NFL's best DE's and was part of a rebuilding line. All that said, I find it to be very irrelevant how they did last year. You can't even begin to compare two rookies after their freshman year, to properly evaluate everything, you need to look at the stats and the progression and the talent OVER TIME, 3-4 years maybe. So the only thing you can do to right now is to rate them based on potential, and I'm sorry, but in the last two drafts, other than maybe Calvin Johnson and Reggie Bush, there is NO other player who has the potential to be as dominating a player as D'Brick. Matt Leinart was and still is MILES away from D'Brick as far as talent goes, and not only that, but the Jets need for OL was so much greater than it was for QB, so much so, that going OL again this year first round is not out of the question either, that'd be 3 first round investments on OL in the last 3 years. All of this while stealing perhaps their most coveted QB prospect in Kellen Clemens, in the second round, and let me tell you this, based on what I've seen in the pre/off season, I'd take Kellen and D'Brick over Leinart every time, no question. Ask any other Jets fan and maybe any other NFL fan, week in and week out you'll see that D'Brick was the right choice.
OK at least your not being a ***** and shying away. Let's go.

First of all- don't come at me with statistics. Just don't. Stats are overrated. Stats are just numbers. A computer nerd can read and study stats and make assumptions based on numbers. A person who has never played the great game of football can do that as well. When you're talking football (of all sports), PLEASE, for the sake of yourself, refrain from referencing numbers. I really do not care at all what Matt Leinart's stats were last year. Not one bit. Go look at Peyton Manning's numbers as a rookie.

Now on to my point. The reason I brought up the D-Brick, ML "comparison" (as you call it), is because the Jets came into the 2006 NFL draft with a chance to really lay the foundation for years to come. They had already snatched their EXCELLENT young head coach, and were in position to have a fruitful draft. As a native New Yorker, and someone who really WANTS the Jets to do well, I could not wait to see what they did. I had scouted D-Brick quite a bit, and I won't lie- I was impressed. I still like D-Brick- think he can be an excellent football player. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if ends up a pro bowler. But when Kellen Clemens (who if he was ANYTHING like what he was hyped up to be pre-draft '06 he would have already overtaken Chad), is struggling in 2010 and Matt Leinart is winning the NFC with Ken Whisenhunt calling the plays, you think Jets fans aren't going to regret the decision to take D-Brick?

That's far in the future, but that's what I'm doing here on this DRAFT site- predicting and projecting. Of course, I'm not going to be %100. I HOPE, for the sake of Eric Mangini and the Jets, that D-Brick's struggles (he looked bad at Hofstra and in preseason) don't continue.

As for Matt Leinart- I HOPE, for the sake of the Jets that he doesn't break out and turn into a perennial pro-bowler. Unfortunately for you, I think that will happen. If it doesn't- hey you are right and I'm wrong.

You state in your rebuttal that D-Brick is UNQUESTIONABLY the more talented football player than Matt Leinart as far as potential goes. That my friend, is bogus. NO LT, including Walter Jones, has more talent than the ceiling of a potential franchise NFL QB. And that's what Matt Leinart is. I don't want to turn this into a ML-D-Brick argument, but when you're two greatest needs are at QB and LT, I think you go with the QB. That's my opinion. Granted, they were VERY high on Kellen Clemens (unjustifiably so, IMO), so they took D-Brick and waited on KC in round 2. OK. I can live with that. That's what they did. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Every decision your favorite team makes (yes even the BIG ones- like #4 overall) isn't automatically the right one.

And I have asked Jet fans what they thought of passing on ML in '06. Some of them agree with you, some agree with me. But which side would you go with- the decision your team made or the one they didn't make? Doesn't mean the one they made is the right choice.

What else makes me so dumb?
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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you just completely changed your attitude towards the jets and d'brick... how are you going to deny my posts talking about your picks on the jets? im interested
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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My rationale on Cutler (and Alex Smith for that matter), is pretty stupid, to be honest.

The way I see it, there are a bunch of young QB's who will play a prominent role in the success of their team this season. Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, J.P. Losman, probably missing some off the top of my head. Now, ALL of them aren't going to do well. It's just not going to happen. So because I predict a big year from Eli, Vince, and Matt, and predict Ben and J.P. to be so-so, the young guns who I predict will take a step back are Cutler and Alex Smith. I don't have any great inside information or anything on why this will occur- but it's just my gut feeling. Hopefully, for your sake (a Broncos fan I assume), I'm wrong.
I suppose that makes sense. I disagree with it, but I can see where you're going with it. I really don't think any of the big three of 06 will step back though, to be honest. I think Cutler will really boom(perhaps wishful thinking, although statistically(even though i know you hate stats) he was GREAT for a rookie QB), to the tune of 25-30 TDs. VY won't step back, and won't take a big leap either. I expect him to slightly improve passing the ball, and keep up his ability to run. Leinart, I think he'll improve quite a bit as well. I still don't think he'll catch up to Cutler though.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Cutler will have 300 TD's this season. He'll also have 300 TD Receptions.
aye.


quit also trying to pick fights with everyone who wants to criticize your piece. you should see the way we (as a whole) will pick on Dr. Z for being a complete moron.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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wow, this has turned into one big arguement thread.

i believe gpngc did a fairly good job of being level headed in his first responses, but i think he just got to many people calling him a fool and such. Everyone here should be able to appreciate a different opinion and understand that it is just that. He went out on a limb and did an entire league review and rather than go by the book threw out some stuff that wasn't conventional. I feel its okay to disagree, but some people may be taking it a little to hard on him. All i'm saying is try to keep it civil.

i like many others don't agree fully with what he said, but it's left at that, even though it seems the Jets review has drawn argueably the most attention.


Also, i feel that the Lions fan was correct in saying that bearsfan_51 was rude in his response of "who are you?". i dno't beleive the Lions fan had to say it in that manner, but i do feel it was an uncalled for thing to say, as if only people with large post counts are allowed to post threads or something. I know bearsfan said that wasn't what he meant, but that is how it came off. Not trying to get into the middle, but thought it should be pointed out.


With that said, let the arguement continue...........
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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OK at least your not being a ***** and shying away. Let's go.

First of all- don't come at me with statistics. Just don't. Stats are overrated. Stats are just numbers. A computer nerd can read and study stats and make assumptions based on numbers. A person who has never played the great game of football can do that as well. When you're talking football (of all sports), PLEASE, for the sake of yourself, refrain from referencing numbers. I really do not care at all what Matt Leinart's stats were last year. Not one bit. Go look at Peyton Manning's numbers as a rookie.

Now on to my point. The reason I brought up the D-Brick, ML "comparison" (as you call it), is because the Jets came into the 2006 NFL draft with a chance to really lay the foundation for years to come. They had already snatched their EXCELLENT young head coach, and were in position to have a fruitful draft. As a native New Yorker, and someone who really WANTS the Jets to do well, I could not wait to see what they did. I had scouted D-Brick quite a bit, and I won't lie- I was impressed. I still like D-Brick- think he can be an excellent football player. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if ends up a pro bowler. But when Kellen Clemens (who if he was ANYTHING like what he was hyped up to be pre-draft '06 he would have already overtaken Chad), is struggling in 2010 and Matt Leinart is winning the NFC with Ken Whisenhunt calling the plays, you think Jets fans aren't going to regret the decision to take D-Brick?

That's far in the future, but that's what I'm doing here on this DRAFT site- predicting and projecting. Of course, I'm not going to be %100. I HOPE, for the sake of Eric Mangini and the Jets, that D-Brick's struggles (he looked bad at Hofstra and in preseason) don't continue.

As for Matt Leinart- I HOPE, for the sake of the Jets that he doesn't break out and turn into a perennial pro-bowler. Unfortunately for you, I think that will happen. If it doesn't- hey you are right and I'm wrong.

You state in your rebuttal that D-Brick is UNQUESTIONABLY the more talented football player than Matt Leinart as far as potential goes. That my friend, is bogus. NO LT, including Walter Jones, has more talent than the ceiling of a potential franchise NFL QB. And that's what Matt Leinart is. I don't want to turn this into a ML-D-Brick argument, but when you're two greatest needs are at QB and LT, I think you go with the QB. That's my opinion. Granted, they were VERY high on Kellen Clemens (unjustifiably so, IMO), so they took D-Brick and waited on KC in round 2. OK. I can live with that. That's what they did. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Every decision your favorite team makes (yes even the BIG ones- like #4 overall) isn't automatically the right one.

And I have asked Jet fans what they thought of passing on ML in '06. Some of them agree with you, some agree with me. But which side would you go with- the decision your team made or the one they didn't make? Doesn't mean the one they made is the right choice.

What else makes me so dumb?
Lol, it's funny how you're subtly changing your argument from implying that D'Brick was a bad choice and not as good as Leinart, to possibly accepting the decision the Jets made and that D'Brick was gunna be good. First, he's already "good" has he scratched the surface yet on his potential? I'll be honest, absolutely not, has he shown flashes of dominance and the ability to be all he could be and more? Absolutely. It's just really absurd that you criticize the Jets choice in taking D'Brick over Leinart and back your argument up with wild assumptions that just plain-old aren't true. Matt Leinart has not looked like a Franchise QB that cannot be passed up. I mean he's got his definite flaws and although it's only been one stupid rookie season, has not eased my mind on any of them. I think he has all the potential to be a very good QB, but an franchise QB that you can literally build your team around, and a player that you can't pass-up in the NFL draft (despite 8 teams doing so) is a big stretch, but I guess only time will tell. What I am saying, is based on needs, based on value, based on potential, and based on other draft selections, as of right now (and as far as I'm concerned, 20 years down the line as well....) taking D'Brick was the right decision, and I wouldn't want to change it for the world. Ask any intelligent fan, games are won in the trenches, w/o a franchise LT, you can't have a franchise QB, it didn't, doesn't, and won't work.

The Jets didn't have a GLARING need at QB, they definitely could have used one then, no doubt about that, but it wasn't as big of a need as LT, or just OL for that matter. I'd describe a glaring need as a need so large and drastic, that it would be detrimental to your immediate and upcoming season if you didn't fill that hole right away. That's the way I would describe the Jets need for OL and LT to be specific, clearly not so much at QB, because Chad did a very adequate job and as their team leader, led them to the playoffs, something no one, not even Jets fans expected.

For my last argument that the Jets made the right choice, every year, there's TWO OR THREE franchise, can't miss QB's that go into the draft, but D'Brick was considered and as far as I'm concerned, still is, the best OL prospect to come out for the draft within the last 5 years. Matt Leinart wasn't even the first QB chosen or the best of the QB's within his own class, let alone the last 5 years. There's a large, LARGE difference in terms of potential.

And I still find it really funny how idiotic and childish your insults are, and how you resort to them to back your inadequate arguments up. And as for your dislike of stats, numbers don't lie, and yea, any idiotic computer nerd can rattle of some "meaningless" numbers (despite me backing up the numbers with truth and logic) but likewise, and idiotic computer nerd can mix and match a bunch of words in attempt to write a review of the NFL, it takes knowledge to actually be accurate, something you apparently don't have.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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First of all- don't come at me with statistics. Just don't. Stats are overrated. Stats are just numbers. A computer nerd can read and study stats and make assumptions based on numbers. A person who has never played the great game of football can do that as well. When you're talking football (of all sports), PLEASE, for the sake of yourself, refrain from referencing numbers. I really do not care at all what Matt Leinart's stats were last year. Not one bit. Go look at Peyton Manning's numbers as a rookie.

statistics are overrated? oh man. go home.
statistics build your case, and i mean, if you have a point, statistics can give you some weight to what your saying.

like pennington sucks? he's a fantastic decision maker and accurate. his 65% completion rating says that. he puts enough on the ball to get it into spaces and lets his wide receivers work with him.

i wouldn't have a different QB for the jets right now. he's a good fit for their offense. ML would have sit out for.. a year or two while Pennington still had the starting job.

oh and i've never played a single down of football.

the only sport you can't quantify is tennis. and everyone knows this.
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Cutler will have 300 TD's this season. He'll also have 300 TD Receptions.
aye.



quit also trying to pick fights with everyone who wants to criticize your piece. you should see the way we (as a whole) will pick on Dr. Z for being a complete moron.
Wow. Did Cutler eat your babies or something? you're a huge hater.
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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statistics are overrated? oh man. go home.
statistics build your case
, and i mean, if you have a point, statistics can give you some weight to what your saying.

like pennington sucks? he's a fantastic decision maker and accurate. his 65% completion rating says that. he puts enough on the ball to get it into spaces and lets his wide receivers work with him.

i wouldn't have a different QB for the jets right now. he's a good fit for their offense. ML would have sit out for.. a year or two while Pennington still had the starting job.

oh and i've never played a single down of football.

the only sport you can't quantify is tennis. and everyone knows this.
I wouldn't exactly say statistics build your case and mean everything, there is so many other things that you have to factor in and think about. If statistics build your case then there would be so many better DT's than lets say Jamal Williams and Pat Williams, two big run stuffing DTs. And you can't say there is no other QB in the league you would take over Pennington, hell, there would be at least 5-6 I would. BTW I have the Jets going around 8-8 this year.
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Old 09-09-2007, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't call the Cowboys secondary "solid" as of right now. We cut a veteran in Aaron Glenn and the injury to Newman seems pretty bad. Plus the fact Anthony Henry isn't exactly a saving grace either. He was picked on constantly last year. And now we have to rely on guys like Nate Jones and Jaque Reeves who have a total 2-3 game starts between them.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't exactly say statistics build your case and mean everything, there is so many other things that you have to factor in and think about. If statistics build your case then there would be so many better DT's than lets say Jamal Williams and Pat Williams, two big run stuffing DTs. And you can't say there is no other QB in the league you would take over Pennington, hell, there would be at least 5-6 I would. BTW I have the Jets going around 8-8 this year.
I don't agree they mean everything, but you can deduce metrics by say, in a general sense, that you have to focus on two areas (in defense at least) plays made in the box, and plays made out of the box.

You can use statistics to build a case. Film coachs do it all the time, they run down percentages and YPA and how much they need to focus on certain areas of the game.

But. Fat Pat gets the nod for being one of the top run stuffing DTs (along with K-Will, because, in reality, the two act as one most of the time in the 4-3, whereas that's untrue with the chargers and Jamal Williams, but i'll get to that in a second)... Last year, the Vikings had a 1.4 Yards Per Carry against their defense. 1.4. Considering the league average last year was something like 3.6 (and the Colts were nearing 5.0). Much of the DT statistics have nothing to do with tackles, but have to do with yards per rushing attempt and times the QB was flushed out of the pocket. Jamal Williams, and a majority of the SD front 7 are good at run stopping and good at pass rushing. with a 2.7 YPCA in the regualar season, they're better at it. But, i mean. Their secondary is crap, revealed by the amount of times they've been outplayed but the pass rush (the cheater that is merriman) saves their ass.

I would discuss that more, but i have to catch a train, and that sounds like another topic all together... *which i will start before i leave*
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Old 09-09-2007, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Damn. You guys tore this dude a new butt-hole.
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Old 09-09-2007, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Well, we're one third on our way to you predicted win total.
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Old 09-09-2007, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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3) Steelers- A very tough team to read. What Big Ben will we see? Santonio Holmes could have a breakout year (look at his stats at the end of last season). Everything else pretty much stays the same besides the head coach, so it's really all on Big Ben. I don't trust him to make the playoffs, but they'll be competitive. 8-8 seems about right, but a game or two under.500 wouldn't surprise me at all.
I expect your resignation from the site today or at the very least an apoligy.
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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I expect your resignation from the site today or at the very least an apoligy.
Steelers looked very good.

But it was against the Browns... so I won't apologize just yet. First impression makes them look more like an 11-5 team than 7-9, I'll admit, but as I've repeated on this thread a bunch of times- I don't expect to get every single prediction right...

I admit they looked pretty impressive, and like I said in my preview- they are a difficult team to read. But let's see them play someone other than the Browns. Good week one, but the jury is still out...

I will refrain from re-visiting the D-Brick argument until we see what ML does tonight. But it's not looking good Jets fans... 6-10...
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Well, we're one third on our way to you predicted win total.
You're right. I did write sleeper alert, and went on to change my opinion based on the fact that I like the Texans and want to see them get Darren McFadden (pretty stupid reason to pick a team to go 3-13...)

You looked good, but it was the Chiefs (who I think are the worst team in the league). Can't wait to see how this season unfolds for Super Mario and the gang.
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Giants still coming out on top, right?
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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Some thoughts on week one...

-Thoughts and prayers go out to Kevin Everett and his family.

-Eli Manning, after he returns from injury, will have an excellent year.

-Mario Williams has more TD's than Reggie Bush this season.

-Plaxico Burress, Terrell Owens, and Reggie Wayne might end up as the three top WR's in fantasy football this season.

-Three rookie studs (Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch) were VERY impressive in their NFL debuts.

-Larry Johnson will struggle this season.

-The Giants have the worst secondary in football.

-Deion Branch and Reggie Brown (two #1 WR's on decent NFC teams with great offensive coaches and solid QB's), combined for 1 catch for 14 yards in week one. (Unfortunately, they both started on my fantasy team. Thanks guys...)

-The Patriots have the 2nd best passing game in the league behind the Colts. Their WR corps is almost perfect, if that is possible.

-The Titans will challenge for a WC spot with subpar WR's and Chris Brown/LenDale White at HB, which is kind of funny.

-Fred Taylor is no longer breathing.

-Joey Harrington is a funny guy.

-The Bears will contend for the NFC title again this season. Their defense, if it's possible, looks like it's better than last season.

-If week one is a sign of things to come, Seattle might have one of the hardest-hitting defenses in the league.

-The Bills are not a bad team, and will finish 2nd in the AFC East.

-Before the game, I predicted that the winner of the Panthers-Rams matchup in week one will garner a whole lot of undeserved media hype for the win. Not surprisingly, Eric Allen was seen on ESPN declaring the Panthers as the class of the NFC.

-Jake Delhomme could have a bounce-back season. That would prove me wrong. Let's see what he does against a defense that isn't the Rams.

-Steven Jackson will be fine this season. Fantasy owners, don't panic.

-Clinton Portis will have a huge year.

-Detroit and Oakland will not be in contention for a top draft choice at the end of this season. Both teams are improved.

NCAA
-The October 6th matchup between Florida and LSU will be this season's version of Ohio State-Michigan.

-Watch out for the Big East. Beyond WVU, Rutgers, and UL, USF looks like it's on it's way and Cincinnati is a good football team. Could the Big East actually be better than the Big Ten?

-Another year when OU-Texas will have National Championship implications.

-Wake Forest is a good football team, but last week's game shows that Nebraska will be no match for USC.

-Neither will Cal.

-Finally, Sean Glennon is on the bench- where he should be.

-Malcolm Kelly could be a future first round pick.

-LSU will have the most explosive 2 QB attack since...

...Florida last year with Tebow-Leak.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Giants still coming out on top, right?
With Eli out, probably not... Rumor is it's about a month. The secondary is horrible too.
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