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Old 09-25-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
vatech=accdomination
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you have to actually study
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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I always used to think differently when people said you can do anything you want if you work hard, damn, I was wrong. I really learned this more than anything, sometimes it was the hard way.
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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I went to UVA and damnit the classes were hard, I had no study skills so that hut me a lot.
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Thanks to the people who actually posted some insightful things, I'm making a survey so I'll be using some of your thoughts as my poll options.
Sorry dude, I've only been in College (or at least the European equivalent) for a few weeks, so I couldn't help myself.
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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you have to actually study
I know. I figured that out in the first two weeks.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Try not to listen to your roomate having sex with their girlfriend. This is a serious one. But they were loud.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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That you should only study what will benefit yourself, rather than a potential employer. Better yet, that attending college is usually a pretty big waste of time and money unless your goal is to impress others with your paper knowledge and you know of no other route ending in your definition of success.

In today's world, you can learn anything you want at your own leisure and for free. A lot of people go into college not knowing what they want to do or where they'll end up afterwards. Sometimes they get their degree and realize it holds little value. There's no need to pay somebody to learn. Learning should be perpetual and expansive. Not rigid and specialized. There's no need to lock yourself into one career. And actually, that's often quite foolish. Especially in a world where the climate is constantly shifting and new opportunities are hatched daily.

If the average college student would spend half the time working for themselves as they do building their credentials to hopefully be chosen to work for somebody else, I think they'd find themselves to be much happier and consider themselves more successful. But hey, not everybody can go that route. Society needs the majority of people to work hard rather than work smart.

Which is why everybody is reminded constantly form the time they're a little kid that getting your college degree is the most important thing you can do to be successful. Otherwise, you'll just be a loser and never be happy. You'll never be able to realize your dreams if you don't attend college and do well there. Right. Working your ass off so you can be a cog in another man's system will make you feel real successful.

My advice would be to work on creating your own system. Strive to put yourself in a position where you're the one who looks at college graduates as commodities. Unless you're one of those wackos who insists that money doesn't matter, then it would be wise to have a goal of becoming financially free as soon as possible. Being an employee exclusively is far too limiting for many people to accomplish this without a lot of luck and/or too much hard work. There's always a cap. Your potential is only what those above you say it is. And never forget, work is not synonymous with hard. You decide what is hard and what isn't. If you think the work you do is hard, then there's a good chance somebody is making a lot of money off of you while thinking the work they do is easy. And it's doubtful you're as happy as you'd like to be. Work smart, not hard.

It's much easier to become financially free when you set yourself free of needless boundaries. Why are so many people competing to see who gets chosen to play in the rat cage? Don't they realize that they've gotta run around on that wheel until the guy roaming free outside decides to fill their water jug? In the grand scheme, that's what college is all about. I'm speaking in generalizations of course, but it's the truth. Sure, with licenses and whatnot, there are many professions that require you to acquire defined credentials that can only be obtained from a school. I'm not wholly opposed to the idea of people attending college. I think structured learning is needed and often the best option for some people. Not for me though. It's all about the bottom line for me. College is just too much of a rigid and inefficient way of learning for my taste. But everybody has different motives and ideas of success.

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent or offend anybody. Was gonna leave it at those first few sentences and hit submit, but then I just kept typing. Just a snippet of how I feel about conventional schooling and the myths surrounding it.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckseason View Post
That you should only study what will benefit yourself, rather than a potential employer. Better yet, that attending college is usually a pretty big waste of time and money unless your goal is to impress others with your paper knowledge and you know of no other route ending in your definition of success.

In today's world, you can learn anything you want at your own leisure and for free. A lot of people go into college not knowing what they want to do or where they'll end up afterwards. Sometimes they get their degree and realize it holds little value. There's no need to pay somebody to learn. Learning should be perpetual and expansive. Not rigid and specialized. There's no need to lock yourself into one career. And actually, that's often quite foolish. Especially in a world where the climate is constantly shifting and new opportunities are hatched daily.

If the average college student would spend half the time working for themselves as they do building their credentials to hopefully be chosen to work for somebody else, I think they'd find themselves to be much happier and consider themselves more successful. But hey, not everybody can go that route. Society needs the majority of people to work hard rather than work smart.

Which is why everybody is reminded constantly form the time they're a little kid that getting your college degree is the most important thing you can do to be successful. Otherwise, you'll just be a loser and never be happy. You'll never be able to realize your dreams if you don't attend college and do well there. Right. Working your ass off so you can be a cog in another man's system will make you feel real successful.

My advice would be to work on creating your own system. Strive to put yourself in a position where you're the one who looks at college graduates as commodities. Unless you're one of those wackos who insists that money doesn't matter, then it would be wise to have a goal of becoming financially free as soon as possible. Being an employee exclusively is far too limiting for many people to accomplish this without a lot of luck and/or too much hard work. There's always a cap. Your potential is only what those above you say it is. And never forget, work is not synonymous with hard. You decide what is hard and what isn't. If you think the work you do is hard, then there's a good chance somebody is making a lot of money off of you while thinking the work they do is easy. And it's doubtful you're as happy as you'd like to be. Work smart, not hard.

It's much easier to become financially free when you set yourself free of needless boundaries. Why are so many people competing to see who gets chosen to play in the rat cage? Don't they realize that they've gotta run around on that wheel until the guy roaming free outside decides to fill their water jug? In the grand scheme, that's what college is all about. I'm speaking in generalizations of course, but it's the truth. Sure, with licenses and whatnot, there are many professions that require you to acquire defined credentials that can only be obtained from a school. I'm not wholly opposed to the idea of people attending college. I think structured learning is needed and often the best option for some people. Not for me though. It's all about the bottom line for me. College is just too much of a rigid and inefficient way of learning for my taste. But everybody has different motives and ideas of success.

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent or offend anybody. Was gonna leave it at those first few sentences and hit submit, but then I just kept typing. Just a snippet of how I feel about conventional schooling and the myths surrounding it.

good **** .
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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**** your starting to sound like snuff dchess.

agreed.
as njx was saying elsewhere, no one checks your transcripts anyway once you get out of college. (unless you work for the government of the US). learn what you enjoy. don't worry about your job. just lower your standards a little bit.

you don't have do drive a nice car, buy that nice of house, being without the worry of debt is way cool. and college is a way to put yourself in a lot of debt.
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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I learned that it's not about knowledge or actual education, it's about playing a game in order to get a sheet of paper. I learned that everything I was being taught I could have learned in a library on my own time and without a professor injecting their own personal biases (well meaning or not). This is why I am no longer enrolled in a university, nor have any plans to return. I accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish in college: take classes I would have never seen myself taken (Women's Politics, Humanities, Fencing), going for big goals (becoming the only sports columnist for the school paper), and joining a few clubs and making a few contacts which I still treasure today. The only thing I really lack is that piece of paper, and I regret nothing. I guess what I'm saying is that college is less about learning, and more about what you take out of it.
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
**** your starting to sound like snuff dchess.

agreed.
as njx was saying elsewhere, no one checks your transcripts anyway once you get out of college. (unless you work for the government of the US). learn what you enjoy. don't worry about your job. just lower your standards a little bit.

you don't have do drive a nice car, buy that nice of house, being without the worry of debt is way cool. and college is a way to put yourself in a lot of debt.
your whole point is contradictory.
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckseason View Post
That you should only study what will benefit yourself, rather than a potential employer. Better yet, that attending college is usually a pretty big waste of time and money unless your goal is to impress others with your paper knowledge and you know of no other route ending in your definition of success.

In today's world, you can learn anything you want at your own leisure and for free. A lot of people go into college not knowing what they want to do or where they'll end up afterwards. Sometimes they get their degree and realize it holds little value. There's no need to pay somebody to learn. Learning should be perpetual and expansive. Not rigid and specialized. There's no need to lock yourself into one career. And actually, that's often quite foolish. Especially in a world where the climate is constantly shifting and new opportunities are hatched daily.

If the average college student would spend half the time working for themselves as they do building their credentials to hopefully be chosen to work for somebody else, I think they'd find themselves to be much happier and consider themselves more successful. But hey, not everybody can go that route. Society needs the majority of people to work hard rather than work smart.

Which is why everybody is reminded constantly form the time they're a little kid that getting your college degree is the most important thing you can do to be successful. Otherwise, you'll just be a loser and never be happy. You'll never be able to realize your dreams if you don't attend college and do well there. Right. Working your ass off so you can be a cog in another man's system will make you feel real successful.

My advice would be to work on creating your own system. Strive to put yourself in a position where you're the one who looks at college graduates as commodities. Unless you're one of those wackos who insists that money doesn't matter, then it would be wise to have a goal of becoming financially free as soon as possible. Being an employee exclusively is far too limiting for many people to accomplish this without a lot of luck and/or too much hard work. There's always a cap. Your potential is only what those above you say it is. And never forget, work is not synonymous with hard. You decide what is hard and what isn't. If you think the work you do is hard, then there's a good chance somebody is making a lot of money off of you while thinking the work they do is easy. And it's doubtful you're as happy as you'd like to be. Work smart, not hard.

It's much easier to become financially free when you set yourself free of needless boundaries. Why are so many people competing to see who gets chosen to play in the rat cage? Don't they realize that they've gotta run around on that wheel until the guy roaming free outside decides to fill their water jug? In the grand scheme, that's what college is all about. I'm speaking in generalizations of course, but it's the truth. Sure, with licenses and whatnot, there are many professions that require you to acquire defined credentials that can only be obtained from a school. I'm not wholly opposed to the idea of people attending college. I think structured learning is needed and often the best option for some people. Not for me though. It's all about the bottom line for me. College is just too much of a rigid and inefficient way of learning for my taste. But everybody has different motives and ideas of success.

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent or offend anybody. Was gonna leave it at those first few sentences and hit submit, but then I just kept typing. Just a snippet of how I feel about conventional schooling and the myths surrounding it.
I think you'll find that starting your own business (I'm assuming that's what you meant when you said working for yourself) is a lot more work than working for somebody else. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of entrepreneurs put in countless more hours than their employees. It's also MUCH riskier and requires a skillset that not many people possess.

Even if all you get out of college is a piece of paper...that piece of paper will provide you with many opportunities that wouldn't exist without it. It'll almost assuredly raise your income and increase your likelihood of landing a satisfactory job.

Also, a lot of the learning that comes from college is not things you can read in a book. I'm a business student which means a lot of case studies. How could I get practical experience working on real-life business dilemmas in a team environment if I wasn't enrolled in university? Then there is the whole personal development thing that happens in college...
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Moses View Post
Even if all you get out of college is a piece of paper...that piece of paper will provide you with many opportunities that wouldn't exist without it. It'll almost assuredly raise your income and increase your likelihood of landing a satisfactory job.

Also, a lot of the learning that comes from college is not things you can read in a book. I'm a business student which means a lot of case studies. How could I get practical experience working on real-life business dilemmas in a team environment if I wasn't enrolled in university? Then there is the whole personal development thing that happens in college...
If you're interested in raising your income and landing some cushy office job, definitely go to college and graduate. Moses is right. A degree is the fastest (albeit not the only) and most comfortable way to do it.

However, if you're interested in viewing life on your own terms and going through it as you see fit, the degree isn't really the most important part about those 3-5 years (or bf51's decade).
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward View Post
If you're interested in raising your income and landing some cushy office job, definitely go to college and graduate. Moses is right. A degree is the fastest (albeit not the only) and most comfortable way to do it.

However, if you're interested in viewing life on your own terms and going through it as you see fit, the degree isn't really the most important part about those 3-5 years (or bf51's decade).
Degree or not, not going to college is a bad option for the vast majority of people. Unless you manage to start your own successful company, you're going to be playing catch-up your entire life. Sure, you could start at the bottom of a business and work your way to the top but that takes a ton more work than starting in the middle and moving up.

Simply put, a college degree is an investment in yourself (the best kind) that will benefit 99.9% of people. I don't think I have ever met a single person who regrets getting a college education. I have, however, met many who wish they had one.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Moses View Post
Degree or not, not going to college is a bad option for the vast majority of people. Unless you manage to start your own successful company, you're going to be playing catch-up your entire life. Sure, you could start at the bottom of a business and work your way to the top but that takes a ton more work than starting in the middle and moving up.

Simply put, a college degree is an investment in yourself (the best kind) that will benefit 99.9% of people. I don't think I have ever met a single person who regrets getting a college education. I have, however, met many who wish they had one.
I never recommended not going to college, all I was suggesting is that it's about more than just a degree. Also, I think we're living life on different paths my friend. Catch-up to who? The top of what? Middle of what? Society? The Forbes 500 list? The race?

If you've never met anyone who regrets getting a college education, you should meet some of my friends. People who live very happy, meaningful lives that have nothing to do with the mountain of debt and wasted time that was college. I've never met a doctor who regretted his education, but I've met tons of people with bachelor's degrees, and even a couple with master's who are happy in fields that have nothing to do with their education, nor were they accepted quicker as a result.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Moses I also have a problem with what you said.

You said if you work your way up the chain to the top it takes longer...than if you just started at the middle and went up.

But lets face it...anyone who is going to make it to the top of the organization probably has a good head on their shoulders. With this being the fact....Smart people recognize things like this. What makes you think coming in with a degree is going to start you off any higher than starting positions anyways. That's definately not guaranteed. If you have the brains to make it to the top of a company. I just look at it like this...school takes 4 years from your chances to move up a ladder...granted internships and whatnot are available. But in 4 years if you are destine for upper management your going to be recognized and your probably going to be networking with the top people...while the other smart person is in college.

There is no right or wrong reason...you basically do what you want to do and you'll get out of life what you put in. If you need a structed setting than obviously college is a better place for you. If you could spend all day in a library by yourself just researching and learning well then a teacher might not be needed.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I think you'll find that starting your own business (I'm assuming that's what you meant when you said working for yourself) is a lot more work than working for somebody else. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of entrepreneurs put in countless more hours than their employees. It's also MUCH riskier and requires a skillset that not many people possess.
Not necessarily. I do believe that those who choose to be self-employed often work harder than your average employee. These are the people who own their own business that would fail without their presence. So naturally, their success is directly tied to how much time and effort they put into their work. There are countless avenues that lead to financial success. And many of them haven't even been thought of or put into action yet. Sure, I do believe that running your own business is far more advantageous than being an employee of another, but that's just one of many options. Shoot, most people would be much better off if they would just learn proper money management skills and exercise them, than they would be with 8 years of college and no money management skills. This takes little time and effort, yet it is vital to the success of anybody. Everybody is far more worried about how they're gonna get those credentials for that $75,000 a year job so they can put themselves further into debt with a marriage and mortgage. The average person's expenditures rise just as fast as their rate of pay. And quite often, they fall way out of balance. There are billions of dollars being created out of thin air and just floating from one place to another daily. The wise will spend their time and effort building as big and tight a net as possible and put it out there to catch as much as they can rather than waiting for what might fall at their feet. And their are countless way to build a net. You only have one pair of feet.

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Even if all you get out of college is a piece of paper...that piece of paper will provide you with many opportunities that wouldn't exist without it. It'll almost assuredly raise your income and increase your likelihood of landing a satisfactory job.
True. But along with that feeling of safety and assurance comes the sacrifice of many other opportunities. By investing so heavily in focused education, you limit yourself greatly. Many college graduates find themselves trapped in their chosen profession because their skills are limited, and jumping ship at any given time would mean significant loss of income and security. We value nothing more than security. People hate taking risks. We want nothing more than to feel safe and secure. And with that comes a very low ceiling. You put yourself into a box in hopes that it won't go anywhere as long as you stay in it. This is a fatal error that the majority of people seem to make in the name of protecting themselves. Diversification is key. As are calculated risks. If you cast your line, you'll bring in one fish at a time. If you throw a net, you'll bring them in by the barrel.

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Also, a lot of the learning that comes from college is not things you can read in a book. I'm a business student which means a lot of case studies. How could I get practical experience working on real-life business dilemmas in a team environment if I wasn't enrolled in university? Then there is the whole personal development thing that happens in college...
Well, I agree that many professions will require you to obtain paper credentials and real life experience. I really don't think business is one of them though. I think the time, money and effort spent on a business degree would be better spent on a small scale real life business venture. If you fail, that will still likely be a more valuable lesson than anything offered in a classroom. You will never experience success without many failures. Everything that you learn in college can be found outside the classroom. The biggest difference is that the classroom has tighter boundaries and everybody in that room is being exposed to the exact same material. Like pigs at a trough. I'd rather trot my ass out to the woods and sniff out truffles.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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I didn't go back to college after a couple years, and people are always wonder whats wrong with me. The question that I love being asked when someone finds out I don't want to continue my "higher education" is....

"Don't you want to be successful?"

.....
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Like pigs at a trough. I'd rather trot my ass out to the woods and sniff out truffles.
Anything to get off the farm before the man decides he needs bacon.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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I didn't go back to college after a couple years, and people are always wonder whats wrong with me. The question that I love being asked when someone finds out I don't want to continue my "higher education" is....

"Don't you want to be successful?"

.....
you cant because you're mexican?
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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you cant because you're mexican?
Oh, my bad. It all makes sense now.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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Oh, my bad. It all makes sense now.
that was via snuff.
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