Week 7: Cowboys vs Vikings Thread - Page 6

thule · 10-22-2007, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

When hasnt Columbo not played like crap, do we not have any better options for the year?

What games have you been watching? Columbo has been our MOST CONSISTANT OL this year. He had a terrible game but he is money on the right side.

Funny you should mention this..because an article just came out a few days ago...check link here...

http://www.star-telegram.com/332/story/274395.html

Quote:

Among the starting offensive linemen, only right tackle Marc Colombo has dodged a holding call. The Cowboys have officials at every practice and don't let players get away with holding.

After Dallas had 11 penalties against Miami, Cowboys offensive line coach Tony Sparano used a clever idea: putting socks on the hands of the linemen to keep them from holding.

"It's just focus," said right guard Leonard Davis, who has three penalties this season. "Most of the time, if you get caught for holding, you are out of position. That's all part of focusing and executing in what you do. The illegal procedures, that's just concentration right there."

Most-penalized Cowboys

Pos./Player No. Most frequent offense
LT Flozell Adams 8 False start/holding (4)
WR Terrell Owens 8 Delay of game/false start (2)
SS Roy Williams 3 Facemask (2)
RG Leonard Davis 3 Holding (2)
LG Kyle Kosier 3 Holding (3)

D-Unit · 10-22-2007, 03:10 AM

I'm interested in knowing the sacks allowed stats. Anyone got it?

Burns336 · 10-22-2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Nice, I didn't pick up that that was Carpenter.

On Roy, I thought he did a tremendous job in coverage today. Broke up that huge 3rd down conversion as he came flying in from nowhere to disrupt the catch. He also contained AD everytime AD came out of the backfield as a receiver. AD dropped that one catch... but I credit Roy for putting the fear in AD's head. Roy nailed him in the back anyways, lol. Roy's coverage skills are definitely improving.

Yeah, they are improving but Im glad that he is playing mid range now instead of deep. I think he is still very vulnerable to the deep ball.

The play that you are talking about is one of the big hits I mentioned but did it look to you like roy let up on that? I know he can lay people out and to me it looked like he let up on nailing AD. Im not sure if he realized that the ball had gone off his finger tips or if he is affraid of getting a fine. If it is the latter of the two, I wouldnt balme him, but at the same time I hate where the league is going with the hard hittting rules. Without the hard hits it takes away the effectivness of a player like roy.

For example, i saw a play within the last 3 weeks where Adrian Wilson just blew a guy up when the ball went off of his finger tips and it was a perfectly legal hit, Im almost certain there was no penalty in the game (maybe they threw a flag for leading with the helmet but the replay showed that he used all shoulder) and the league still fined him because they said it was excessive. The reason that they gave was that the hit was unecessarily hard and could have been just as effective without using as much force or some bull along those lines.

Burns336 · 10-22-2007, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

I'm interested in knowing the sacks allowed stats. Anyone got it?

8 times on the season, not sure if that is including today or not

source: http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/lea...enpassing.html

edit: that does not Include today. I think he went down 2 times today which would put romo at 10 on the season through 7 games

thule · 10-22-2007, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

I'm interested in knowing the sacks allowed stats. Anyone got it?

closest i can get is this
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...Hog_Index.html

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Out of curiosity, out of what has been said... what part was the funny part?

The fact I heard kind words about Bradie and Roy at previous points in this thread bout their Vikes play.

If Ayodele, Bradie and Roy don't play well against a team that feeds into their strengths then wow.......

They can't cover worth a nickel (no pun inteneded) they should be able to be good run thumpers versus on one handed run team.

T Jackson was amateur hour in Dallas yesterday. Ryan, Brohm, or Woodson would play on that team right now.

I guess I just have higher expectations than most.

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Roy's coverage skills are definitely improving.

You are being funny right?

A Pro QB hits Wade for a TD and a few other times he was woefully out of position. Jackson is just awful.

Dolphins, Vikings, Chicago, Rams (injured Bulger) are not measuring sticks for Roy or any other Coverage Defender.

Raise your expectations.

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 11:05 AM

Here are my points from the Vikes game ...

1) Romo needs to improve ball security. Giants and Eagles will be a real test with their pass rush.
2) Offense needs a personality. Too much throwing first half and not enough the second. One mistake and Vikes are back in the game in Q4.
3) Please eliminate Ellis and Williams in anything having to do with cover. Second time in as many weeks I see poor Greg playing in space. About as good as Roy. Roy on Wade?? These matchups should just never happen.
4) Reeves is developing. Those who killed him will have crow to eat.
5) Yes to Hatcher and yes to Burnett as starters.

Well, bye at 6-1 which is nice. Have lots to work on with Coverage packages. Tank should help up the middle push. I think we have better 4-3 personnel at this time in pass coverage

DE = Hatcher/Ellis (Spencer/Canty)
DT = Ratliff/Johnson (Spears/Bowen)
LB = Burnett/Ware/Carpenter (Williams)
DB = Henry/Newman/Watkins/Hamlin (Reeves)

While I am not a 4-3 lover, the personnel makes more sense.

Jdallas · 10-22-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysforever

Here are my points from the Vikes game ...

1) Romo needs to improve ball security. Giants and Eagles will be a real test with their pass rush.
2) Offense needs a personality. Too much throwing first half and not enough the second. One mistake and Vikes are back in the game in Q4.
3) Please eliminate Ellis and Williams in anything having to do with cover. Second time in as many weeks I see poor Greg playing in space. About as good as Roy. Roy on Wade?? These matchups should just never happen.
4) Reeves is developing. Those who killed him will have crow to eat.
5) Yes to Hatcher and yes to Burnett as starters.

Well, bye at 6-1 which is nice. Have lots to work on with Coverage packages. Tank should help up the middle push. I think we have better 4-3 personnel at this time in pass coverage

DE = Hatcher/Ellis (Spencer/Canty)
DT = Ratliff/Johnson (Spears/Bowen)
LB = Burnett/Ware/Carpenter (Williams)
DB = Henry/Newman/Watkins/Hamlin (Reeves)

While I am not a 4-3 lover, the personnel makes more sense.

Did you think that maybe that's why we usually have a 4 man line for our nickel/dime defense?

D-Unit · 10-22-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysforever

You are being funny right?

A Pro QB hits Wade for a TD and a few other times he was woefully out of position. Jackson is just awful.

Dolphins, Vikings, Chicago, Rams (injured Bulger) are not measuring sticks for Roy or any other Coverage Defender.

Raise your expectations.

You are being sarcastic right? Roy has definitely improved from last year. He's not making the same mistakes and no one has beat him deep yet this year. Not even Brady. Brady had one nice completion to Watson when Roy was covering him for a first down, but that was it. Roy hasn't given up a TD yet.

Raise my expectations? Open your eyes.

D-Unit · 10-22-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysforever

Here are my points from the Vikes game ...

1) Romo needs to improve ball security. Giants and Eagles will be a real test with their pass rush.

Yeah, he does.

2) Offense needs a personality. Too much throwing first half and not enough the second. One mistake and Vikes are back in the game in Q4.

Maybe it's just me, but I like coming out attacking defenses with the pass and then using the run to run out the clock in the second while holding a lead.

3) Please eliminate Ellis and Williams in anything having to do with cover. Second time in as many weeks I see poor Greg playing in space. About as good as Roy. Roy on Wade?? These matchups should just never happen.

Trying to eliminate him in those situations is one thing. Guessing the offensive playcall is another. On that play where AD got open vs Ellis... that was just a great call by MIN. They saw Ware on the strong side, had AD lined up at RB and swung him out as a receiver to the weakside where a vulnerable Ellis would be in pass coverage. Roy made the right read to help Ellis and made AD think twice about catching the ball. Luckily AD dropped it, but that was a good call by MIN.

4) Reeves is developing. Those who killed him will have crow to eat.

Reeves is garbage. A #4 or #5 CB at best. Weren't you the one calling Tavaris Jackson a pathetic excuse of a QB? I don't see where you can start to call Reeves anything other than lucky to get playing time based off this game.

5) Yes to Hatcher and yes to Burnett as starters.

Yep, I agree.

Well, bye at 6-1 which is nice. Have lots to work on with Coverage packages. Tank should help up the middle push. I think we have better 4-3 personnel at this time in pass coverage

DE = Hatcher/Ellis (Spencer/Canty)
DT = Ratliff/Johnson (Spears/Bowen)
LB = Burnett/Ware/Carpenter (Williams)
DB = Henry/Newman/Watkins/Hamlin (Reeves)

While I am not a 4-3 lover, the personnel makes more sense.

JDallas addressed that one nicely. No way do we scratch the 3-4.

Bolded comments.

Turtlepower · 10-22-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

You are being sarcastic right? Roy has definitely improved from last year. He's not making the same mistakes and no one has beat him deep yet this year. Not even Brady. Brady had one nice completion to Watson when Roy was covering him for a first down, but that was it. Roy hasn't given up a TD yet.

Raise my expectations? Open your eyes.

I am in the minority with you that Roy Williams should deserve some love. Cowboys fans on this board I feel are overrating the play of Hamlin while underrating the play of Roy so far this year.

D-Unit · 10-22-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtlepower

I am in the minority with you that Roy Williams should deserve some love. Cowboys fans on this board I feel are overrating the play of Hamlin while underrating the play of Roy so far this year.

Hamlin started off hot and has cooled down. But his influence on the field is not always seen in the stat sheet, so fans from other teams who don't watch the Cowboys week to week actually probably underrate him as a player.... imo.

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

You are being sarcastic right? Roy has definitely improved from last year. He's not making the same mistakes and no one has beat him deep yet this year. Not even Brady. Brady had one nice completion to Watson when Roy was covering him for a first down, but that was it. Roy hasn't given up a TD yet.

Raise my expectations? Open your eyes.

Not to be get into an argument but Roy Williams was toasted several times versus the Giants to start with. He did nothing v New England and even yesterday was toasted a couple time whe playing SS. Luckily we have benefited from bad QB play most of this season.

A second key issue is he is now playing LB most of the time in Dime so to say he has improved as a SS is a stretch. He is playing LB fairly well in the Dime. Give him credit for being pretty good as LB in Dime. In fact, he one INT came in this coverage I think.

A third key issue, is he has not forced as many (1 INT?) turnovers as you would expect from a player with such holes in his game. That is, his strengths are not ever that strong to begin with. How many forced fumbles does he have? Can't remeber one.

Has WP hidden Roy better than BP ..... well if comparing the last 4 games of last year to the first 7 of this. Yes. Let us see what occurs as we start to play teams with decent QBs. Manning, McNabb. Etc. Last year, by the way Roy played SS without major incident (bad QB play too) until New Orleans and then the dyke gave way. BP made no adjustments and the team paid the price.

He is a LB masking as a Safety and as folks are starting to notice (better late than never) the use of spread offenses has rendered the "In-the-box" Safety nearly useless.

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Bolded comments.

Not saying we scratch the 3-4. I am saying that on passing downs we have better 4-3 personnel than 3-4.

Subtle, but meaningful, difference.

10-22-2007, 04:52 PM

You know what, a lot of you guys love to bash Roy Williams for giving up a couple of catches, but every time i seen him give up a pass THERE HAS BEEN NO PASS RUSH.

FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, FORGET ABOUT ROY, WE SHOULD BE GENERATING A LOT MORE PRESSURE. I THOUGHT THIS NEW PHILLIPS 3-4 WAS SUPPOSE TO BE THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD, BUT IT'S REALLY NO BETTER THAN PARCELLS 3-4. NOW IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BETTER AT TIMES, BUT WE ARE NO WERE NEAR GETTING AS MUCH PRESSURE AS THE PATRIOTS ARE OR THE CHARGERS OF LAST YEAR. /end rant

now a lot of you wanna blame Roy for not covering(he's getting better), why don't you blame our front 7 for not getting pressure.

D-Unit · 10-22-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSlay4

You know what, a lot of you guys love to bash Roy Williams for giving up a couple of catches, but every time i seen him give up a pass THERE HAS BEEN NO PASS RUSH.

FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, FORGET ABOUT ROY, WE SHOULD BE GENERATING A LOT MORE PRESSURE. I THOUGHT THIS NEW PHILLIPS 3-4 WAS SUPPOSE TO BE THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD, BUT IT'S REALLY NO BETTER THAN PARCELLS 3-4. NOW IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BETTER AT TIMES, BUT WE ARE NO WERE NEAR GETTING AS MUCH PRESSURE AS THE PATRIOTS ARE OR THE CHARGERS OF LAST YEAR. /end rant

now a lot of you wanna blame Roy for not covering(he's getting better), why don't you blame our front 7 for not getting pressure.

Ah... the pass rush... Thank you for bringing that up. It's the whole entire reason why I bash our DL and ILBs. They are run stuffers. While I can appreciate that, they leave me wanting more. I think people thought blaming Bill was the answer and bringing in Phillips would be the cure. Fact of the matter is we lack the talent to be an attacking style defense.

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Ah... the pass rush... Thank you for bringing that up. It's the whole entire reason why I bash our DL and ILBs. They are run stuffers. While I can appreciate that, they leave me wanting more. I think people thought blaming Bill was the answer and bringing in Phillips would be the cure. Fact of the matter is we lack the talent to be an attacking style defense.

So are you telling me Jerry picked the wrong HC for the team?

Everywhich way you triangulate someone needs to take blame. Players, Coaches or GM.

Pick one. But yes, this is BP's team and it fits his scheme. Defensively and a little less so Offensively.

D-Unit · 10-22-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysforever

So are you telling me Jerry picked the wrong HC for the team?

Everywhich way you triangulate someone needs to take blame. Players, Coaches or GM.

Pick one. But yes, this is BP's team and it fits his scheme. Defensively and a little less so Offensively.

No. Wade is great. Just saying changing the scheme is not the answer to all...which many expected. We need to move out the players that don't fit. ...Bradie James, Marcus Spears... maybe Ayodele, Carpenter. They are not bad players per se, just bad fits. Gimme a DE that can attack, and ILBs that can blitz effectively up the middle, stop the run, have sideline to sideline range and drop back in coverage and I'm a happy man. That ILB position is so damn important and we've got so so guys in there, who despite doing their best, are just barely adequate.

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

No. Wade is great. Just saying changing the scheme is not the answer to all...which many expected. We need to move out the players that don't fit. ...Bradie James, Marcus Spears... maybe Ayodele, Carpenter. They are not bad players per se, just bad fits. Gimme a DE that can attack, and ILBs that can blitz effectively up the middle, stop the run, have sideline to sideline range and drop back in coverage and I'm a happy man. That ILB position is so damn important and we've got so so guys in there, who despite doing their best, are just barely adequate.

I said somewhere else that the change fro Dave Campo 4-3 to BP 3-4 to WP 3-4 requires different type of talent.

We a little bit from each philosophy but not enuff of any one to be a dominant D. 70% BP, 25% Campo, 5% WP.

I am not a WP liker (bad beats in the playoffs) but at the end of the day it is Jerry who is responsible for the scheme changes.

pocketaces · 10-22-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysforever

I said somewhere else that the change fro Dave Campo 4-3 to BP 3-4 to WP 3-4 requires different type of talent.

We a little bit from each philosophy but not enuff of any one to be a dominant D. 70% BP, 25% Campo, 5% WP.

I am not a WP liker (bad beats in the playoffs) but at the end of the day it is Jerry who is responsible for the scheme changes.

So you don't like WP because of his playoff failures but you love what the Eagles do? Hmmm go figure....

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketaces

So you don't like WP because of his playoff failures but you love what the Eagles do? Hmmm go figure....

I like WP. I think we could have done different and better. But he is here and we need to support his version of the D. My principal critique is with the GM.

What is your point about the Eagles? Not sure I understand.

pocketaces · 10-22-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysforever

I like WP. I think we could have done different and better. But he is here and we need to support his version of the D. My principal critique is with the GM.

What is your point about the Eagles? Not sure I understand.

Robert, were not stupid. Everybody knows who and what you are.you can quit the act. Quoting yourself as a "different poster" to serve your needs is just childish. I'm sure your just covering your tracks so you dont get banned AGAIN, but as Thule pointed out there is a time line between you and Big Rob. I'm quite sure you know what the Eagles reference is.

cowboysforever · 10-22-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketaces

but as Thule pointed out there is a time line between you and Big Rob.

Funny, I made a similar point last year. Huh.

********************

On the Eagles, no can't say I know what you are speaking of. Personally, I hate the Eagles.

I came back because I felt some of the issues I addressed last year where coming around. So I found my account still active and here I am once again. A little bit I told you so but frankly no matter at this time.

Probably be around till February and then take a sabbatical again.

LonghornsLegend · 10-22-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysforever

So are you telling me Jerry picked the wrong HC for the team?

Everywhich way you triangulate someone needs to take blame. Players, Coaches or GM.

Pick one. But yes, this is BP's team and it fits his scheme. Defensively and a little less so Offensively.

Why are you harping so much on this is BP's scheme and players and it doesnt fit now, its not as if were going from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and we had no personel for the 4-3 or the coaching, and its not like were the steelers who brought in a coach who is well known with the 4-3 so we have to learn both or take bumps with out coach, we ran 2 different styles of the 3-4 from this year to last, maybe we dont have the exact type of players Wade needs, but were close enough and its nowhere near an excuse or worth mentioning...

Every time you change coaches you dont need to dwell on who can come in and make us play best the next year with who we have, you want long term, and how about give it 2 years before saying we dont have the right type of players, we have players familiar with the 3-4 itself, and its not nearly worth throwing out like they are learning an entire new defense or positions