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Old 10-17-2007, 06:46 PM    (permalink
MaddHatter
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Default Screw McFadden... Give me Hart

Now I know this is a dangerous statement on this board with everyones hardon for McFadden, but hear me out...

For the Price it would cost, I think Hart's payoff is much higher then McFaddens.

I mean if Hart was there for our 2nd round pick or maybe we sent a late 2nd day with our 2nd to trade up a few picks for him, I'd much rather do that then take McFadden with our 1a pick (and especially if it meant trading up.)

Why you ask? Well McFadden is a speedster - that's it. He can't break tackles (julius), he's hit or miss (julius) and he tends to fumble more often then not (not a plus) - I've seen many of his games, and I went back and watched several "highlight" reels just to make sure, and I didn't see one play where he broke a tackle. Every run was him using his speed to the outside and breaking one off, and typically it was against less then steller teams. In the NFL, Defenses are faster and his speed will be somewhat negated. He'll get beat down if he tries to go between the tackles, and, in my mind, won't be any different then Jones.

Mike Hart on the other hand is shifty, he's hard to tackle and has some speed to boot. He'll fight for every yard and hasn't had a fumble in what... 164 carries? (WOW!) Some might say he runs behind a better line, but Long is really the only stud on that line and he plays against pretty solid defenses day in and day out.

If they both demanded a Top 5 pick, I'd probably pass on both, but with Hart likely to fall to the bottom of the 2nd, I think the price:upside ratio is much better and we're really just talking about someone to split carries with Barber, making it even harder to imagine investing a Top 10 pick on him


Am I alone on this?
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Hart is more like MB3, and we need someone in the mold of Julius to replace JJ after he leaves this year. Despite what everyone here claims, I think he plays an important role in the offense.

As for Hart, he is smallish and not overly quick or fast.....but he kinda reminds me of Emmitt. I think he might be a real sleeper.
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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No way I would want Hart, since his freshmen year he has had so many carries, probably 5x the normal back coming out, even worse is they are working him like crazy every game this season he will be burned out before he ever plays a game in the NFL, I wouldn't draft a car with 500k miles on it unless it is day 2.
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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I think it's pretty well documented that I do not want to spend our first round pick on McFadden if guys like Dorsey, Long and Loadholt are still on the board. However, he is the best RB available in this draft. So getting him between 6 and 10 is something to seriously consider. Especially in a draft without a lot of elite talent.

I've also mentioned how I think that this year's RB class is the deepest of all positions. Mike Hart at the end of Round 2 is a worthy selection value wise, but I don't know if I like his fit with the team.

One guy I like who I think nobody is looking at is BenJarvus Green-Ellis. I love his game. I love his style. Hard runner who can pound it down the middle and won't go down by first contact. That is exactly what we're missing that JJ doesn't give us. Frankly MB3 doesn't give that to us either. MB3 is a cutter and has good vision to find the gap to hit, but his running style is not tailor made for softening up defenses. I love MB3 in his role now...come in and punch defenses in the face. I hate JJ in his role...softening up defenses??? Who are we kidding? Hate it so much right now that I'm willing to try to let them switch even though I think MB3 is better doing what he's doing now. Give me BenJarvus Green-Ellis in Round 4 and we land a major steal.
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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I just look at the chargers play. And think man if only LT played for the cowboys. Then after my post last night I actually see it as a possibility. So I think your crazy for wanting to take a beaten up RB over one of the best SEC Rb's of all time.
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Given how crappy our Pass Coverage is -- 2 CB or Safety/CB in round 1 is rationale.
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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With the way the browns are playing we wont even sniff mcfadden... at least I hope Jerry doesn't do something crazy like package both our draft picks to move up for him.... I dont think he would ever do it, but who knows.
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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I think we are cursed. When we got the Bills' first round pick, it was the 20th overall. After that year, the Bills haven't pick so late anymore.
Now, we got the Browns first round. They haven't been a good team for a long period, their best season came during Crenell's first year. They are the Browns, they are known as a team that (recently) have always sucked.
Now that we have their first round pick, they're playing very good on offense and they won't give us a top 5 pick as you should expect. They probably won't give us a top 10 pick neither!
I'm sure that after this year, the Browns will find another way to suck bad, and their future first rounders will be much higher than the one they're givin us this year.
So, we are cursed :(
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't think I would be in favor of drafting any RB, ever, in the first half of the first round. The cost is just too much for a player who will probably not be much better than a guy drafted in the middle of the 2nd. Those who have been around here for a while know that I think an OL makes a RB more than anything else in the pro game. As I've said before I would absolutely pick Hart in the 2nd over McFadden in the top half of the first. IMO the only negative on Hart is the number of carries he gets, which seems to be a trend with Michigan RBs lately.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't think I would be in favor of drafting any RB, ever, in the first half of the first round. The cost is just too much for a player who will probably not be much better than a guy drafted in the middle of the 2nd. Those who have been around here for a while know that I think an OL makes a RB more than anything else in the pro game. As I've said before I would absolutely pick Hart in the 2nd over McFadden in the top half of the first. IMO the only negative on Hart is the number of carries he gets, which seems to be a trend with Michigan RBs lately.
Addai, Maroney. MJD was taken in the second round that year though.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I love Mike Hart. He just has so much...Hart

But he's not much of a big play threat, he reminds of Curtis Martin in his later days.

i guess it would be nice one two punch with Hart and Barber in the backfield.

Let's not forget how deep this RB class is tho, there are so many options and Im sure Jerry will make the right choice
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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McFadden is so not going to happen, so his name shouldnt even be used to much around these forums...how many people here think he last outside the top 10? Not a single chance, if we trade up for a rb ill be so sick, we have too many needs, what happens if he gets hurt? then we are still a team with glaring weaknesses with a flashy pick not making an impact, we need 2 utilize both picks in the first rd, im not a huge fan of that, unless its ONE position we really need, and there is ONE guy so far and above away the others its not close...for instance, lets say last year we need a wr, thats our only weak spot, we have another teams pick at 10, and our own late 20's, id be all for trading up for CJ, makes sense then...It doesnt make sense to try it this year, especially not for a rb...we need 2 figure out a way to get barber more carries and get into a groove, and I think we can find a leon washington type back at the end of the first day
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Anyone else impressed with the way Ray Rice ran last night? I didn't see the entire game (was watching the Sox of course), but when I did flip over, it seemed like Rice was running hard and picking up tough yards on every play.
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Well in light of Bill Parcell's recent comments that Barber should be a feature back if there was a better 3rd down back in Dallas .... Steve Slaton comes to mind.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else impressed with the way Ray Rice ran last night? I didn't see the entire game (was watching the Sox of course), but when I did flip over, it seemed like Rice was running hard and picking up tough yards on every play.
I sure was. He reminded me how much I want him on the Cowboys.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Well in light of Bill Parcell's recent comments that Barber should be a feature back if there was a better 3rd down back in Dallas .... Steve Slaton comes to mind.
That's cool. I didn't see BP say that about Barber. Slaton would be a decent scat back. But that's not worth a high pick.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Now I know this is a dangerous statement on this board with everyones hardon for McFadden, but hear me out...

For the Price it would cost, I think Hart's payoff is much higher then McFaddens.

I mean if Hart was there for our 2nd round pick or maybe we sent a late 2nd day with our 2nd to trade up a few picks for him, I'd much rather do that then take McFadden with our 1a pick (and especially if it meant trading up.)

Why you ask? Well McFadden is a speedster - that's it. He can't break tackles (julius), he's hit or miss (julius) and he tends to fumble more often then not (not a plus) - I've seen many of his games, and I went back and watched several "highlight" reels just to make sure, and I didn't see one play where he broke a tackle. Every run was him using his speed to the outside and breaking one off, and typically it was against less then steller teams. In the NFL, Defenses are faster and his speed will be somewhat negated. He'll get beat down if he tries to go between the tackles, and, in my mind, won't be any different then Jones.

Mike Hart on the other hand is shifty, he's hard to tackle and has some speed to boot. He'll fight for every yard and hasn't had a fumble in what... 164 carries? (WOW!) Some might say he runs behind a better line, but Long is really the only stud on that line and he plays against pretty solid defenses day in and day out.

If they both demanded a Top 5 pick, I'd probably pass on both, but with Hart likely to fall to the bottom of the 2nd, I think the price:upside ratio is much better and we're really just talking about someone to split carries with Barber, making it even harder to imagine investing a Top 10 pick on him


Am I alone on this?
this is like saying u would rather draft marshawn lynch over AD for the price it would cost. theres just not justification for it. btw mcfadden is the superstar player julius never was in college or the NFL.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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In my opinion, if we're looking for an upgrade at running back (which it seems like a lot of people want), we need a player who will be able to come in and be a force in the running game. Value's great, but at this point, what other needs do we really have? To me, an offensive playmaker is certainly one of the top three priorities for this draft, along with DB depth and NT depth. When you have a high pick, you are looking for a player who can be a game changer. I don't see any CB in this draft being able to be a difference maker. And everyone's opinion differs on Glenn Dorsey as a nosetackle. To me, that leaves "offensive playmaker" as the number one priority in this draft. That playmaker could come in the form of Darren McFadden, DeSean Jackson, Jonathan Stewart, etc. In my mind, one of those guys would be the biggest impact player on the Cowboys next season.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Posted by Tim Mac on DMN

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Sports Illustrated's Paul Zimmerman wrote about the NFL's lack of "blood 'n guts runners," identifying Marion "The Barbarian" Barber as the best of the bunch.

Dr. Z mentioned that he can sort of understand the theory of bringing Barber off the bench, even though it's obvious that he's a better player than Julius Jones. Barber is, as Bill Parcells put it, a perfect closer.

"He's so versatile that he's a perfect guy to finish a game for you," Parcells told Dr. Z. "Actually his versatility hurts his status as a featured back. I'll tell you, though. If I'd have had a third down back at Dallas, a Dave Meggett type, I'd have made Barber my featured back."

Hmmmm ... very interesting, especially with Jones' contract up at the end of the year. The Cowboys just might be able to find a third-down, change-of-pace back in the middle rounds of the draft and make Barber a 15-20-carry-per-game guy.

Matter of fact, I have the perfect player in mind. He's a Denton kid who is starring for Houston, which just happens to be Wade Phillips' alma mater. Meet Anthony Alridge.
I looked up Alridge on espn. Big play threat can take it the distance. Great hands can slot out and play WR in situations. Great kick returner. Good hands. Small...not a tough guy by any means. But Explosive big play threat.

I like the match...require a 2nd day pick so be it.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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For what it is worth, DMAC plus Barber would be a fantastic backfield. Won't happen unless Anderson goes down soon.

Other possibles: Stewart gets me excited b/c I love big running backs and he does have giddy up.

Slaton, to me, is a poor man's Reggie Bush and he has more big runs in college than Reggie ever did.

Love Hart but he is Barber, except smaller with a little better speed and less bulk. But I love him.

Given the CB and LT depth in this draft plus the possible junior WRs ////// I would not mind ending up with 1 first, 2 seconds and 3 thirds -- and address everything we need with immediate help.

OT: Is Dre Moore another Maryland beast? 6'4 311? Who does he remidn you guys of?
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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I looked up Alridge on espn. Big play threat can take it the distance. Great hands can slot out and play WR in situations. Great kick returner. Good hands. Small...not a tough guy by any means. But Explosive big play threat.

I like the match...require a 2nd day pick so be it.
Yeah I watched Alridge against my Ducks in the opener and was quite impressed. Very quick with excellent burst through the hole, and he runs with fire. I agree he would be a nice complement to Barber. Imagine a little dude like that hiding behind Big Davis. I'd have to watch him a bit more to really evaluate whether I thought he'd be a good choice, but he made a great first impression on me. Seems like a passionate guy who loves the game and would give it his all on every play. He appears to be faster than Jones from what I remember, but I don't recall really examining his patience or vision. He really didn't need those two things against my Ducks. Haha.
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Old 10-19-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I've really become a fan of Jonathan Stewart lately. He seems like the total package and is ideal in this physical/power running offense we're starting to transition to.
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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How about Steve Slaton as our 3rd down back?

He's fast as hell and can be our true home run hitter
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Old 10-19-2007, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Look at you two. One says physical power is ideal and the other says we need a fast as hell home run hitter.

For my money, I'd take Stewart over Slaton all day everyday.
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Well, if Barber is good at being on the field on third downs does it make sense to bring in a back and take him out of those situations?? I dont know, he's a great blocker, receiver out of the backfield, tough runner, everything you want on third downs, and he has excelled at doing it so far...Id rather a guy come in and spell his series and keep his carries around 20 a game, vs just taking him out on third downs
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