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Old 04-22-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
Rob S
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I dont mind setting it up. Start it next week then?
Well, I can start on Thursday probably. Just post the thread now in the fantasy section.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...93#post2960693

Sign up for the soccer draft, should be fun.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Messi absolutely shows up in big games for Barca. It's completely and utterly ridiculous to say otherwise. For Argentina he hasn't been great, no, but his managers have sucked and his teammates at Argentina can't play the very distinct style that he has become accustomed to playing at Barca. That's a tough adjustment. It is also tough to adjust to playing with new strike partners every time out......give him consistent partners at the national team and they will develop that understanding that he has with the players at Barca and he will be a deadly international player.
That adversity is part of being a great player though. If he can't handle not having beautiful balls place right on his feet by Xavi and Iniesta then doesn't that say something? I'm not knocking Messi and this is serious nitpicking, but i'm just saying.

As for the big games thing, sure you can pick out games where he played well you can do it for all players, but it's not like he is Joe Montana out there. Did he even have a shot yesterday? I seriously don't think he did.

I'm seriously trying not to be a homer, but I don't get why even though Messi and Ronaldo are the clear cut 1 and 2 players in the world, Messi is viewed as better. The goals are about equal but Ronaldo scores more, and Ronaldo's assist numbers aren't that far off from Messi either so the team player notion is just stereotypical ********. Ronaldo has had plenty of situations where he could probably have scored on his own but squared it off to Benzema or Higuan. I really think what has Messi above him is team success, but hopefully that is on the verge of changing as well.

It all depends on what you want. Messi has the brilliant dribble in traffic skills with deadly simple finishes that get the job done, while Ronaldo can break anyone 1 on 1, run by pretty much everyone in pro soccer, and rip a 40 yard screamer to the upper 90 at any moment.

The sad part is people would pick Messi just because of their attitudes, but to me that is stupid. If anything I like the flair Ronaldo brings to him teammates, it definitely lifts them up. I know if I was playing I'd rather send a ball into to Ronaldo than Messi and watch the magic unfold.

EDIT: By the way, whoever watched the game yesterday did you see when Ronaldo broke the **** out of Sergio Busquets and was about to be free down the sideline but Busquets grabbed his leg and the ref called a foul on Ronaldo for nothing? That probably would have been another goal, he was gone. Oh well though, we still won.

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Old 04-22-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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The sad part is people would pick Messi just because of their attitudes, but to me that is stupid. If anything I like the flair Ronaldo brings to him teammates, it definitely lifts them up. I know if I was playing I'd rather send a ball into to Ronaldo than Messi and watch the magic unfold.
Similarly, I wouldn't hesitate to give it to Messi, not even close. It's hard to quantify statiscally as you mention goals and assists are close, but I think if you look at just open play and those moments that aren't captured in statistics, Messi is a better team player. It's all just preference though isn't it at the end of the day.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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That adversity is part of being a great player though. If he can't handle not having beautiful balls place right on his feet by Xavi and Iniesta then doesn't that say something? I'm not knocking Messi and this is serious nitpicking, but i'm just saying.

As for the big games thing, sure you can pick out games where he played well you can do it for all players, but it's not like he is Joe Montana out there. Did he even have a shot yesterday? I seriously don't think he did.

I'm seriously trying not to be a homer, but I don't get why even though Messi and Ronaldo are the clear cut 1 and 2 players in the world, Messi is viewed as better. The goals are about equal but Ronaldo scores more, and Ronaldo's assist numbers aren't that far off from Messi either so the team player notion is just stereotypical ********. Ronaldo has had plenty of situations where he could probably have scored on his own but squared it off to Benzema or Higuan. I really think what has Messi above him is team success, but hopefully that is on the verge of changing as well.

It all depends on what you want. Messi has the brilliant dribble in traffic skills with deadly simple finishes that get the job done, while Ronaldo can break anyone 1 on 1, run by pretty much everyone in pro soccer, and rip a 40 yard screamer to the upper 90 at any moment.

The sad part is people would pick Messi just because of their attitudes, but to me that is stupid. If anything I like the flair Ronaldo brings to him teammates, it definitely lifts them up. I know if I was playing I'd rather send a ball into to Ronaldo than Messi and watch the magic unfold.

EDIT: By the way, whoever watched the game yesterday did you see when Ronaldo broke the **** out of Sergio Busquets and was about to be free down the sideline but Busquets grabbed his leg and the ref called a foul on Ronaldo for nothing? That probably would have been another goal, he was gone. Oh well though, we still won.
I don't have time for a long retort, but just quickly:

-Messi has historically been better in big games, he just has.

-It isn't (all or even mostly) Messi fault with Argentina struggling.

-While they are so far and away 1/2 in the world, I think Messi is clearly better because his skillset is much more unique. There are more players who can do what Ronaldo does than can do what Messi does, admittedly less frequently than both and at a far inferior level. Messi's technical ability and close control while running at full speed is the hardest thing to do in soccer.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Well I just got giddy.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I don't have time for a long retort, but just quickly:

-Messi has historically been better in big games, he just has.

-It isn't (all or even mostly) Messi fault with Argentina struggling.

-While they are so far and away 1/2 in the world, I think Messi is clearly better because his skillset is much more unique. There are more players who can do what Ronaldo does than can do what Messi does, admittedly less frequently than both and at a far inferior level. Messi's technical ability and close control while running at full speed is the hardest thing to do in soccer.
I disagree with your last point. They're both incredibly skilled players, but Ronaldo being a much more impressive physical threat makes his skillset just as unique, no one in the world can take the ball through a bunch of opposing jerseys like Messi but no one in the world can score all of the different goals Ronaldo does either.

If you want to list players that have similar skillsets the only thing that becomes obvious is that players you'd compare to either player are incredible talents in their own rights. Be it guys like Pato, Thomas Mueller and Reus who could be called Ronaldo-lite or ones like Goetze and Neymar in the Messi-lite camp.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with your last point. They're both incredibly skilled players, but Ronaldo being a much more impressive physical threat makes his skillset just as unique, no one in the world can take the ball through a bunch of opposing jerseys like Messi but no one in the world can score all of the different goals Ronaldo does either.

If you want to list players that have similar skillsets the only thing that becomes obvious is that players you'd compare to either player are incredible talents in their own rights. Be it guys like Pato, Thomas Mueller and Reus who could be called Ronaldo-lite or ones like Goetze and Neymar in the Messi-lite camp.
I didn't see Rob's comment till now, and I completely agree with what Rosebud said. Yes, Messi's dribbling in traffic and finishing is one of a kind, but so is Ronaldo's size, speed, one on one moves, free kick ability, and his ability to rip 40 yarders at any moment. Some random guy can make a free kick or a long shot of course, but not at the rate Ronaldo does it. He does it will exception skill, not luck. The same can be said for Messi too, a bunch of people can dribble through traffic and make a nice goal, but obviously not to the frequency he does it.

By the way, Chelsea's white jerseys are fresh.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Wow... and of course the heavens open up for Barcelona to go through. Smh.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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beautiful ball in.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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The fact that Chelsea has 10 people defending is making me mad.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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zomg Chelsea! Torres to seal it! Craziness!
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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The man in my sig ftw!!!! Visca Torres!!
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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I love seeing Barca's stubbornness screwing them. This was a perfect game to bring on a man like Llorente and toss some balls up to him to open up some shooting alleys. But nope, they just keep knocking it around the outside of the box until chelsea managed to poke it away. Kudos Chelsea, now Bayern just need to hold up their end tomorrow and we'll get to watch Chelsea's B team play Bayern's B team in Munich. Twill be epic.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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ten men, 18% possession and the blues get the win.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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CHELSEA!!!

Now Real has to handle business and I'll get the Real vs Chelsea final I been wanting.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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We better score in bunches tomorrow. If the Madridistas aren't fired up now I dunno wtf will get us going.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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4 players knocked out for the final for Chelsea. It's going to fun seeing who they put out for that game. What an incredible performance though.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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**** Chelsea
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Tomorrow will be epic, Real seeing the opportunity to get a double over Barca, Bayern having their last chance to salvage a trophy from this season with a final in their stadium.

Is it weird that I'm disappointed Robben's healthy enough to start so one of Kroos or Mueller is going to have to start on the bench, and if it's Kroos, Mueller will have to play in the middle behind Gomez, where he's not as effective as he is playing on the wing or behind a skilled striker?

I actually feel pretty good about Bayern's back 6 if Schweini's good to go as Gustavo and Alaba have been playing great, Lahm is always a stud and the young CBs are really settling in in front of one of the very best keepers in the world. But their offense isn't always the most cohesive and it's the one dimensionalness of Gomez and Robben that create that, I'd play Olic ahead of Ribery-Kroos-Mueller with that back 6 to control the game better, to defend better and to be more fluid. If you need a goal in the second half and you're struggling Robben can spark a team with a great solo-effort as well as anyone and if you're creating chances but struggling to finish them you bring on gomez and his Gerd Mueller impressions.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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4 players knocked out for the final for Chelsea. It's going to fun seeing who they put out for that game. What an incredible performance though.
I think Bayern has 7 guys a yellow away from being banned for the final so if they get through both teams could be missing more than 3 regulars.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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I think Bayern has 7 guys a yellow away from being banned for the final so if they get through both teams could be missing more than 3 regulars.
At least it would be more of a fair matchup then. I was rooting for Bayern regardless.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
TheBoyWonder22
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**** Chelsea
I echo this sentiment with my whole being.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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one of the better games i have seen in quite some times.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:17 PM    (permalink
JRTPlaya21
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Rosebud I hope you know Llorente doesn't play for Barca lol.
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