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Old 06-14-2012, 05:16 PM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal View Post
Basketball is my least favorite of the major sports as well. It's not the low scoring with soccer that bothered me as much as the tied. Just feels very unsatisfying to watch a game for 2 hours and have them just say tie and go home. Itd be different if it were rare, but it feel practically constant this year.
The ties are only in the group stage though. Once that is completed on Tuesday, they are elimination games with OT and penalty shots after that.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:18 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Basketball is my least favorite of the major sports as well. It's not the low scoring with soccer that bothered me as much as the tied. Just feels very unsatisfying to watch a game for 2 hours and have them just say tie and go home. Itd be different if it were rare, but it feel practically constant this year.
It's just in the group stages. I'm sure it's cause I'm used to ties, didn't like when the NHL did away with them, but I like seeing two evenly matched teams walking away with a point each, and with a win being worth 3 points there's a strong enough incentives for teams to chase games they can win.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:19 PM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Also can't say I dislike the penalties. We all love seeing hockey games go to as infinite OTs, but it's just not feasible in soccer since you're not rotating lines to give guys a rest. Plus I'm german, and I loved playing Goalie as a kid, so I love seeing a goalie go one on one with a field player to see who's nerves are strongest.
I get why they can't play until they score. Guys would literally drop like flies because of exhaustion. Penalties is a necessary evil to decide a game after 120 mins. I also don't mind the shoot out as much in hockey, only because the goalie has more of a chance. He can be more reactionary rather than just totally guessing in most instances.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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The ties are only in the group stage though. Once that is completed on Tuesday, they are elimination games with OT and penalty shots after that.
Yea I know that. I'm just saying from what I've seen this far.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Yea I know that. I'm just saying from what I've seen this far.
When two strong teams meet I can see a tie being upsetting. I would have liked to see a winner for England & France. But a tie would be have been a very interesting outcome for Ireland & Spain today. Draws can often be victories or losses in a way.

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Old 06-14-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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If the MLS was as competitive as some of the European Leagues interest would probably grow. My mate seems to think in 20 years time the MLS will be the biggest league in the world. I don't agree, but don't think it would be bad for the game. If Americans cared as much about soccer as basketball or football their national team could be awesome!

Does the MLS still have that, only 3 top earners rule? I don't understand that, because it could hold the league back in the future.
The MLS doesn't have the top level youth academies to have a competitive league. America can produce teenagers with potential but there's no system to groom them into top players the way the top soccer nations do. The German FA forced Bundesliga squads to develop youth academies according to DFB standards for minimal training schedules, facilities and costs. If the US were to do that and develop a steady stream of international caliber youngsters; and the MLS changed their rules to reflect those of the major european nations, then the US could be a world class league.

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MLS rules are stupid. They're designed to keep all clubs competitive similar to the salary cap in the NFL, but truthfully the MLS needs to allow rich owners put whatever money they want into clubs(I actually don't think MLS teams have traditional owners), let them get more internationally competitive, and then maybe look at whether those rules should be reinstituted.
Yeah, the MLS has to recognize that unlike other major american sports leagues, there's major international competition for the top players and the US league does not have the prestige of the being the world's traditional top league.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Also, how can anyone not enjoy the ridiculousness of Spain playing a 4-6-0 vs. Italy? That's something you would only be able to see in soccer.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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I get why they can't play until they score. Guys would literally drop like flies because of exhaustion. Penalties is a necessary evil to decide a game after 120 mins. I also don't mind the shoot out as much in hockey, only because the goalie has more of a chance. He can be more reactionary rather than just totally guessing in most instances.
Yeah, but you can deke a goalie, you have to shoot from the spot in soccer so there's things that make it easier and harder for the keeper in each sport. Plus I've seen too many clutch german goalkeepers to accept that penalties are purely the result of chance.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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One issue with the MLS going big would be the teams wouldn't be in the Champions League. I suppose they could maybe make an exception and say "**** it, let's let them in" but the Champions League is definitely a big attraction.

Or they could just turn it into a global thing. But i'm thinking 20 years down the line.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Also, how can anyone not enjoy the ridiculousness of Spain playing a 4-6-0 vs. Italy? That's something you would only be able to see in soccer.
Yeah, the tactics of soccer are what make me love it so, just like football for that matter. It's no coincidence that my two favorite sports are also the two sports most influenced by coaching.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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You'll see more and more older players coming to MLS which is proof that it's expanding fine.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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One issue with the MLS going big would be the teams wouldn't be in the Champions League. I suppose they could maybe make an exception and say "**** it, let's let them in" but the Champions League is definitely a big attraction.

Or they could just turn it into a global thing. But i'm thinking 20 years down the line.
There's a way to make it work even if they have to go as far as making the group stages a tournament played during the winter breaks and pushing off the knockout stages until after most teams finish their seasons in the summer.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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You'll see more and more older players coming to MLS which is proof that it's expanding fine.
Aging vets haven't turned any of the arabic leagues into elite leagues, the Russian league has only been successful when they've had strong domestic players competing with the high priced vets brought in by the big bucks. For the US to ever be a quality league it's the youth development that needs the greatest updating.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Aging vets haven't turned any of the arabic leagues into elite leagues, the Russian league has only been successful when they've had strong domestic players competing with the high priced vets brought in by the big bucks. For the US to ever be a quality league it's the youth development that needs the greatest updating.
I agree with this but it brings visibility to this league. Di Vaio coming to Montreal will make soccer way more popular in Montreal and will bring more fans than a goddamn crappy college player that no one wants to see.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Over the last 10 years soccer has developed into my 3rd favorite sport after baseball and football. I enjoy watching the games develop and teams building up to attack and so forth. I wish I knew more about soccer tactics to enjoy it even further. I also love how the European leagues are run because they're a ton more fair than what we have over with the playoff system. Americans would never go for a system with out a winner that comes from a playoff though especially if it came down to goal differential.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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The big names like Beckham and Henry aren't there to improve the quality, but it raises the awareness and get more people interested.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Over the last 10 years soccer has developed into my 3rd favorite sport after baseball and football. I enjoy watching the games develop and teams building up to attack and so forth. I wish I knew more about soccer tactics to enjoy it even further. I also love how the European leagues are run because they're a ton more fair than what we have over with the playoff system. Americans would never go for a system with out a winner that comes from a playoff though especially if it came down to goal differential.
In the shower this morning I was thinking (because the shower is where I do all my deep thinking) that the MLS should tweek their playoffs system. They could have four teams from each conference in the playoffs. Then have group play. The winner of each group plays in a winner take all game for the championship.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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The big names like Beckham and Henry aren't there to improve the quality, but it raises the awareness and get more people interested.
And if the product sucks it just makes people not like soccer because they think the MLS is representative of the sport, especially with over the hill names. Increase the quality of the youth players, then bring in some big names to raise awareness, but right now it's just misplaced investment.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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One issue with the MLS going big would be the teams wouldn't be in the Champions League. I suppose they could maybe make an exception and say "**** it, let's let them in" but the Champions League is definitely a big attraction.

Or they could just turn it into a global thing. But i'm thinking 20 years down the line.
There is a CONCACAF Champions League but from my understanding (I don't watch, I don't even think it's on TV) the MLS teams routinely do poorly.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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And if the product sucks it just makes people not like soccer because they think the MLS is representative of the sport, especially with over the hill names. In crease the quality of the youth players, then bring in some big names to raise awareness, but right now it's just misplaced investment.
The problem with this is that if we get a good young player, he goes over to Europe at this first chance because he can make 10 times the money over there.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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You'll see more and more older players coming to MLS which is proof that it's expanding fine.
Is it? They come to MLS when no other European team will give them a big pay day. And I think we're going to continue to see Asian and Middle Eastern teams throw big money at aging players and prevent even some of them going to MLS.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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There is a CONCACAF Champions League but from my understanding (I don't watch, I don't even think it's on TV) the MLS teams routinely do poorly.
Yes, US teams do terribly. It is basically dominated by the Mexican teams. Five of the last seven years, both teams in the finals have been from Mexico. The L.A. Galaxy won in 2000 but since then, the MLS has only had one team in the finals and they lost.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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And if the product sucks it just makes people not like soccer because they think the MLS is representative of the sport, especially with over the hill names. Increase the quality of the youth players, then bring in some big names to raise awareness, but right now it's just misplaced investment.
They could just do what the Premier League does and import nearly every player from overseas. If that happens, more people will take an interest and start to play which will mean better youth players.

It could work both ways, so they either need to improve the youth development or get rid of the "top 3 earners" rule.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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The problem with this is that if we get a good young player, he goes over to Europe at this first chance because he can make 10 times the money over there.
How many do you really send over though? Even if you have to spend some time as just a development league for young americans before they leave for europe that would be better so long as you keep increasing the quantity and quality of young americans coming through the MLS. You raise the national team's level, which will do a lot more to raise interest in the MLS as a way to watch future american NMT players, then you can start retaining more of them and bringing some of them back.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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How many do you really send over though? Even if you have to spend some time as just a development league for young americans before they leave for europe that would be better so long as you keep increasing the quantity and quality of young americans coming through the MLS. You raise the national team's level, which will do a lot more to raise interest in the MLS as a way to watch future american NMT players, then you can start retaining more of them and bringing some of them back.
Agreed about the American players in Europe. Before the MLS can get better, the USMNT needs to get better and gain more popularity and viewership in non World Cups years. The only way for that to happen is for the US players to get better in Europe.
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