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Old 08-03-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
djp
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Suarez was absolutely not as good as Bale last year. And I watch a lot of EPL. Bale is just better, dude. He scored just as much - give or take playing on the ******* wing. The most important thing is the "goal from nowhere factor" though. A lot of Bale's goals are him just owning and rocketing one in from 25 yards. Suarez never takes over games either - at least not nearly like Bale can.

Plus, last year was Suarez's only one where he was consistent in front of goal. I need more than one season for me to be convinced that he is an elite finisher.
I'm heading out the door, but

1) Suarez played on the wing post-Sturridge signing
2) Suarez created more chances than Bale last year
3) That's great that Bale had a lot of long shot goals. They're pretty, but count no more than any other goal
4) "Never taking over a game" is a fairly broad statement that has no real evidence behind it. If we're talking carrying a team on your back, Liverpool would have arguably been fighting relegation if it weren't for Suarez's form in the first half of last year.

Will respond to you and others tomorrow probably.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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If you are attempting to argue that Suarez's VALUE is equal to Bale then you are truly off your rocker. Younger, media darling vs psychopath, model teammate vs petulant child and that's still not even counting their on-field performance which as said previously I would rate Bale ahead of Suarez.

Also given that the responses have been that Bale is better, albeit not "much" better, I believe it is you, not I, who should review tape without the Mercyside bias.

Honest answer. If you were a new club and were given the option to sign Bale or Suarez whom would you sign?

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Old 08-03-2013, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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If you are attempting to argue that Suarez's VALUE is equal to Bale then you are truly off your rocker. Younger, media darling vs psychopath, model teammate vs petulant child and that's still not even counting their on-field performance which as said previously I would rate Bale ahead of Suarez.

Also given that the responses have been that Bale is better, albeit not "much" better, I believe it is you, not I, who should review tape without the Mercyside bias.

Honest answer. If you were a new club and were given the option to sign Bale or Suarez whom would you sign?

I'd pick Bale, because to me they are basically equal as players and he's a much better teammate and younger.

But that's not the point I'm trying to make. You stated that Suarez=Bale in terms of talent was laughable, and I'm saying that it's not.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Honest answer. If you were a new club and were given the option to sign Bale or Suarez whom would you sign?
Clearly Bale, but its not at all based on talent, and that's what we're talking about right now. I know this all stemmed from Rodgers' statement, but djp's entire argument is about pure on-the-pitch ability, and I agree with him. The only thing that really sticks out for me that Bale is CLEARLY better at than Suarez is his pace. Otherwise there really aren't any major differences in terms of their ability. Bale is one of the most lethal free kick takers in the world, but Suarez is damn good at that himself.

As far as the value to their clubs, there was a point last season where Suarez had like 11 of LFC's 17 TOTAL goals, which is ridiculous. Without him, they'd have been dreadful. He's the only thing that kept them alive at the start of last season. I know that Spurs would have stood no chance at finishing where they did without Bale, but I think the same goes for LFC/Suarez.

Suarez is certainly not worth as much money as Bale, and I don't think theres anyone that would start a club with Suarez over Bale, but it's not because of a talent gap.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Also, I hate Marcelo. So much. You're not a striker, and youre not Roberto Carlos, go away.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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I'd pick Bale, because to me they are basically equal as players and he's a much better teammate and younger.

But that's not the point I'm trying to make. You stated that Suarez=Bale in terms of talent was laughable, and I'm saying that it's not.
Suarez has had one year of classy finishing while Bale thoroughly dominated in all facets for Spurs. Bale waltzed away with the PFA Young Player of the Year, the PFA Players' Player of the Year, and the FWA Footballer of the Year awards.

I think a more interesting note is that Suarez wasn't even the "other" player in the EPL on the UEFA shortlist for Player of the Year. It was RVP and Bale.

I find it interesting that Suarez takes zero awards, receives less accolades than even RVP, and yet somehow is equally talented. Perhaps if I rooted for Liverpool I would understand but Suarez IMHO is clearly not as talented as Bale.


In reply to Commie: I'd also wager that 99% would take Bale over Suarez for simply next season as well.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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I would take Bale next season too, but again, it wouldnt be because of talent. It's kinda like asking that about Terrell Owens and Marvin Harrison several years ago. No one would want TO over Marvin, but it wouldnt be because Marvin is clearly a better player. (Only players I could think of, i know theyre not similar in style or anything)

He wasnt on any of the award things because of all the ******** he pulls and the hatred he (pretty deservedly) draws, not because he isnt amazing. Also, RVP is a top 10 player when hes actually on the field, so thats not exactly an insult to Suarez's talent.

Also, dont lean on the "Its Liverpool bias!" thing please.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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Also, I hate Marcelo. So much. You're not a striker, and youre not Roberto Carlos, go away.
Haha man don't even get me started on him.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Suarez has had one year of classy finishing while Bale thoroughly dominated in all facets for Spurs. Bale waltzed away with the PFA Young Player of the Year, the PFA Players' Player of the Year, and the FWA Footballer of the Year awards.

I think a more interesting note is that Suarez wasn't even the "other" player in the EPL on the UEFA shortlist for Player of the Year. It was RVP and Bale.

I find it interesting that Suarez takes zero awards, receives less accolades than even RVP, and yet somehow is equally talented. Perhaps if I rooted for Liverpool I would understand but Suarez IMHO is clearly not as talented as Bale.


In reply to Commie: I'd also wager that 99% would take Bale over Suarez for simply next season as well.
I don't get why you keep repeating this. Every person in here who's weighed in has already made it perfectly clear that they would take Bale over Suarez. You then keep responding with, "Yeah, but you'd take Bale over Suarez, wouldn't you?", which contributes absolutely nothing to the argument.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Suarez has had one year of classy finishing while Bale thoroughly dominated in all facets for Spurs. Bale waltzed away with the PFA Young Player of the Year, the PFA Players' Player of the Year, and the FWA Footballer of the Year awards.

I think a more interesting note is that Suarez wasn't even the "other" player in the EPL on the UEFA shortlist for Player of the Year. It was RVP and Bale.

I find it interesting that Suarez takes zero awards, receives less accolades than even RVP, and yet somehow is equally talented. Perhaps if I rooted for Liverpool I would understand but Suarez IMHO is clearly not as talented as Bale.


In reply to Commie: I'd also wager that 99% would take Bale over Suarez for simply next season as well.
On my phone, quickly


1) Bale gets a pass for havin a career year well above prior output but Suarez doesn't?

2) Great, Bale won some awards. Voted by British media and a league mostly full of British players. Congrats to him.

3) you said that already
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Bale just has that special ability to win games by himself, turn nothing into magic, much like Messi and Ronaldo. Suarez is a great player, but he can't do that. That's what makes Bale better.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Bale just has that special ability to win games by himself, turn nothing into magic, much like Messi and Ronaldo. Suarez is a great player, but he can't do that. That's what makes Bale better.
Suarez has that kind of ability, it's just done in a different way. Check his goal vs Newcastle last year. Tell me how many players in the world can take a first touch like that and round the keeper. Watch his FKs vs City/Zenit last year.

That said, Bale's long shots are ridiculous. His highlight reel last year was absurd. So much fun to watch. I will admit Bale's ability to score those late, clutch goals were a big advantage over Suarez. That I cannot defend.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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I really don't understand transfers? Why did Tottenham transfer Dempsey to the MLS?
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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I really don't understand transfers? Why did Tottenham transfer Dempsey to the MLS?
Didn't greatly contribute to the team and Seattle was apparently willing to pay. Plus if they sell Bale, there's going to be a noticeable influx of players which would probably leave Dempsey farther down the totem pole.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:40 AM    (permalink
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Actually, one thing i've wondered is why players don't run out their contracts, instead of agreeing to be sold. With the massive transfer fees being paid for one player, you've got to think that the signing bonus' and wages would be astronomical, if it was a great player that was wanted by several clubs.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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1) Bale gets a pass for havin a career year well above prior output but Suarez doesn't?
He has won player of the year twice (the one voted for by his peers).
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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He has won player of the year twice (the one voted for by his peers).
The only thing I care about. Bale needs to be in the World Cup. Damn Wales.
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Actually, one thing i've wondered is why players don't run out their contracts, instead of agreeing to be sold. With the massive transfer fees being paid for one player, you've got to think that the signing bonus' and wages would be astronomical, if it was a great player that was wanted by several clubs.
Aren't players entitled to a certain portion of their transfer fee, as well?
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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It's not the fact that long shot goals are pretty....it's that it is all him. No build up, no help from his teammates. Just turn, fire and rocket the ball in the top corner from 25 yards. Most of Suarez's goals come due to clever passing/movement around the box. They certainly count, and he has scored some damn good ones, but his teammates have a big part in them as well....being more reliant on those around you is a huge difference between them.

Plus, Suarez has been a legitimately terrible finisher for a forward 2 of his 3 season in England. He could've gotten much better last year, sure, but it may just be an outlier. I tend to think it is somewhere in the middle.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
It's not the fact that long shot goals are pretty....it's that it is all him. No build up, no help from his teammates. Just turn, fire and rocket the ball in the top corner from 25 yards. Most of Suarez's goals come due to clever passing/movement around the box. They certainly count, and he has scored some damn good ones, but his teammates have a big part in them as well....being more reliant on those around you is a huge difference between them.

Plus, Suarez has been a legitimately terrible finisher for a forward 2 of his 3 season in England. He could've gotten much better last year, sure, but it may just be an outlier. I tend to think it is somewhere in the middle.
Rob I am fully on board that Bale is better than Suarez and not a terrible human being, but to say that a lot of Suarez goals come from his team mates clever passing is wide of the mark. Certainly prior to the arrivals of Coutinho and Sturridge he was conjuring chances and goals up all by himself for multiple games, I can see how from January onwards can cloud your opinion, but don't forget the early months when other than a Gerrard not at the height of his powers we had very little attacking threat.
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Speaking of Coutinho, the boy sure can play a through ball!

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Old 08-04-2013, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Coutinho <3

All of you Liverpool supporters and I need to keep up on a Coutinho vs Oscar comparison this season. Just because theyre both brazilian, similar in style, and altogether awesome.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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I love how flat that pass was and how he got the backspin on it to hold it up enough for Sterling to get on the end of it, could watch that all day.

Is Oscar likely to continue getting game time this year? Genuine question as with Mata, Schurrle, Hazard, De Bruyne etc there is a lot of competition up there.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Hazard and Schurrle seem to be sticking to the left wing, so it really comes down to Mata/Oscar/De Bruyne rotating between the middle and right attacking midfield spots, with Moses there to sub in and slide in if there's injury. There's also been talk of Oscar playing a bit of center mid this year with Lamps taking a bit of a step back and only playing every other game or something like that. So hed be in the mix there as well, alongside Ramires, Van Ginkel, etc.

He was fantastic in his half against Inter the other day in the #10 spot, we'll see where he fits in this afternoon against AC Milan.

Basically, I think he's going to see the field a lot, though I'm not sure there's one spot hes locked down at.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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new sig :D
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