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Old 03-09-2007, 12:54 PM    (permalink
bigrick0016
 
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Marty turned our franchise around in the 80's. We choked in the playoffs, then he left and we sucked worse. marty helped turn around the Chargers, choked in the playoffs then left. At least let him turn around our team and then let him leave.
I'd rather root for a ****** team that I have no expectations for than one who gets my hopes and crushes me when we get to the Playoffs. I've seen enough of that from the Browns, Indians and the John Cooper Buckeyes.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Ya and by Cleveland terms Belichek is a bad coach right? I mean we did fire him.....
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Ya and by Cleveland terms Belichek is a bad coach right? I mean we did fire him.....
He cut Bernie Kosar............... I rest my case
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/KosaBe00.htm

look at Bernies last 2 years as a Brown....INJURED, AND I WONDER WHY HE WAS CUT???

Bernie is one of the most overrated players ever, he had 3 solid years, and one average one, the rest werent anything to brag about.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/KosaBe00.htm

look at Bernies last 2 years as a Brown....INJURED, AND I WONDER WHY HE WAS CUT???

Bernie is one of the most overrated players ever, he had 3 solid years, and one average one, the rest werent anything to brag about.
Dude serously, can you not talk about Browns history here? Like ever.

This is why I never really ever came to the Browns thread in my 2 years here. When we get a Browns fan other than Freddy G. who either isn't borderline ******** or has only been a fan since 1997 I'll be here.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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bigrick dont judge people, point out the great seasons Bernie had? We benefited mroe from a great run game than we ever did from Bernie.

You make BB look bad for releasing him, but you had no idea until I pointed it out that he only played 7 games in each of his last 2 years. He never did good again in his career, so it was a good release.

"Dude serously, can you not talk about Browns history here?"

the only Browns history you know is the history youve read. You know nothing first hand.

Get over your man crush on the 17 year old Freddy. He used his opinion and tries to make it fact, thats not a great Browns fan, just a very opinionated one.

Hes 17!!! he never even exspecrienced Browns history like some of us.

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Old 03-09-2007, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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bigrick dont judge people, point out the great seasons Bernie had? We benefited mroe from a great run game than we ever did from Bernie.

You make BB look bad for releasing him, but you had no idea until I pointed it out that he only played 7 games in each of his last 2 years. He never did good again in his career, so it was a good release.

"Dude serously, can you not talk about Browns history here?"

the only Browns history you know is the history youve read. You know nothing first hand.
I was there when he cut him in the middle of the '93 season. I was there when he signed to backup Aikman. I was watching th '93 NFC Title game when he came in and threw a TD. I also watched the Super Bowl when Jimmie and Aikman let him take the kneel down. I was also listening to the Todd Philcox game that happened the week after he was cut. You sir, are obviously not a true Browns fan for disrespecting Bernie. Don't accuse me of ****. Why the **** are you here? What the **** gives you the right to assume I wasn't there when my favorite player was cut? How the **** do you know I don''t remember Ozzie or Clay's final game? How do you think I don't remember Belichek being hung and burned in the Municipal parking lot? How the **** do you know anything about me? Go the **** away, I don't want you here and nobody else does.

Last edited by bigrick0016 : 03-09-2007 at 02:26 PM. Reason: grammatical errors
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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wow big rick, those are some big words you used, well im assuming they were big words because they were bleaped out, real mature. Keep it up Im convinced your now the best Browns fan alive.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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you make Bernie sound like a great player, fact is he only played 3 full seasons in his career. never won the big game, and when the Browns were great it was because we had the best running game in the league, not because of Bernie. If you watched his career with the Browns, he was known more for his horrid INT's than leading the team to the playoffs. He is a clone of Jake Plummer.

And the Browns best year in the 80's, was 1985, Bernie was a rookie and wasnt the reason we were good, the Browns team was just mediocre once Bernie was the full time guy, and his stupid injuries kept the team from ever getting over the hump.

Point out something that made Bernie great? i can tell you never fully watched him, because your one of the many youth that severely overrated him.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Bernie Kosar, The face and mark for Cleveland QB's. Arguably the most popular player in Browns history when he was, in the end, an average NFL QB. I think the only sad part is that we measure our QB's to him and NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That's why I'm on the Brady Quinn bandwagon.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1007

Those are Vinny Testaverdes numbers. Specifically look at the 3 years he played for the Browns. He played equal in those 3 years as Bernie did in his best 3 years as a Brown.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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you make Bernie sound like a great player, fact is he only played 3 full seasons in his career. never won the big game, and when the Browns were great it was because we had the best running game in the league, not because of Bernie. If you watched his career with the Browns, he was known more for his horrid INT's than leading the team to the playoffs. He is a clone of Jake Plummer.

And the Browns best year in the 80's, was 1985, Bernie was a rookie and wasnt the reason we were good, the Browns team was just mediocre once Bernie was the full time guy, and his stupid injuries kept the team from ever getting over the hump.

Point out something that made Bernie great? i can tell you never fully watched him, because your one of the many youth that severely overrated him.
Stop telling me I'm a ******* youth! I have been a Browns fan since I was born and my parent have been Browns fan since the Otoo Graham days. Was Bernie Kosar ever great? Not really. he was good, he has a career 81 QB Rating. He threw 16 TD's against 10 picks in the playoffs so he's not the choker. Those losses are to be pinned on Schottenheimer/Byner.

No matter what you are saying (how can anybody be allowed to be a Browns fan support Belichek?) Bernie is the most popular player in Browns history. He DID NOT deserve his cold midseason cut. He not only cut Kosar at a time in which the heir apparent, Testaverde, was hurt. We were in first ******* place! This came on the heals of the releases of Langhorne, Slaughter and Brennan before the 1992 season. Thnis was the final straw. We burned him in effagy, screamed "Metcalf Up The Middle!" on every third down, lamented the wasted picks of "Youchdown" Tommy Vardell and watched as our father wore Bernie Kosar masks to games.

Your support of that arrogant, pompous ass as a coach when you claim to be a Browns fan sickens me. This leads me to believe that you are either doing this to get a rise out of me or you really have no sense of Browns history. If you knew history you'd know that not only can you not question a Cleveland fans attachment to the player who so wanted to be a Brown he used a loophole in the Supplemental Draft so he would not become a Viking. Nor, can you question the irrational hate of Bill Belichek.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1007

Those are Vinny Testaverdes numbers. Specifically look at the 3 years he played for the Browns. He played equal in those 3 years as Bernie did in his best 3 years as a Brown.
Dude, I know his numbers, you know why............I watched every game! We are not denying his worth.
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Bernie is one of the most overrated players ever, he had 3 solid years, and one average one, the rest werent anything to brag about.
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Bernie Kosar, The face and mark for Cleveland QB's. Arguably the most popular player in Browns history when he was, in the end, an average NFL QB. I think the only sad part is that we measure our QB's to him and NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That's why I'm on the Brady Quinn bandwagon.
i don't know if i'm reading this right. why would you say these things? i guess this is why the internet is so great, because i'd be punching both of you in your baby makers and letting the rest of the REAL browns fans tear you apart. it's not about stats, it goes a lot deeper than that.
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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i don't know if i'm reading this right. why would you say these things? i guess this is why the internet is so great, because i'd be punching both of you in your baby makers and letting the rest of the REAL browns fans tear you apart. it's not about stats, it goes a lot deeper than that.

You're going to "punch me in the baby maker" because I said that Cleveland has never had a QB and that Bernie was arguably the best QB we've had and that we compare all of our QB's to him and none come close. I'm saying that we have never had that true franchise QB that is the cornerstone in dynasties.
Green Bay - Starr, Farve
Dallas - Aikman, Staughbach
Colts - Unitas, Manning
SF - Young, Montana
Dolphins - Marino, Griese
Pittsburgh - Bradshaw, Tittle
Denver - Elway
Pats - Brady
Jets - Namath
Chiefs - Dawson (went to Alliance which is somewhat near me)
Bills - Kelly
Houston - Moon (that may be a stretch)...

And I'm sure theres more but I'm not about to look up stats to try to prove that we never had that significant guy to lead us. That's why I'm so high on Brady Quinn.

I know Bernie is a fav, I like the guy too. Even if he is just an average QB. I'm just saying that he is our past. We need a future. Bernie needs his role of best browns qb ever to be extinguished.
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Old 03-09-2007, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Tell me why Bernie is great? Testaverde did everything he ever did for Cleveland. bernie was known for throwing key INTs. His stats arent great and he only played 3 full seasons in his career.
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Old 03-09-2007, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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"If you watched his career with the Browns, he was known more for his horrid INT's "

you do know that he sent an NFL record for most completed passes without and interception right?

joe, i think bigrick has more than proven his knowledge for the browns games, all you do is tell everyone how old they are and they know nothing. maturing isnt always about age. you tell me how young i am and you have no clue. i beleive you said you were 22? if i remember right. your no older than i am.

FREDDY has GREAT insight to things. he has said he's a soccer player, and being a sports fein that i'm sure he is, understands logic of movment and not always weight.

BIG RICK, calm down man. i get your point you know your stuff. that great man. i do agree with you pretty much on everything you said.

bernie was a damn good QB. if you only play the numbers games, then brett farve sucks b/c his numbers were not as good this year?

and Chad Pennington is a great football player b/c he had pretty good numbers this year.

not like that, stats arnt everything. it takes a team to win a game. THE WHOLE TEAM. blaming ppl on not winning the big game is a joke. look at Brady Quinn, his team is crap around him. thats why they lost the big game. why do the browns always lose? b/c our offense is never on the field and our D is always on the field, they get tired and teams just run the ball against us. our T.O.P. sucks.

JOE, it would be GREAT if you didnt rag on everyone else about stupid stuff. you dont know everything. neither do i or anyone else. thats why we post forums and look for other ppls insights. you've start more arguements with ppl in here then there EVER needs to be. see, you post something, then i post a reply, then you reply back. you dont say "your wrong, this is what happened or needs to happen or he's no good, he's better"

Bernie wasnt the greatest, but he was good. nobody can say otherwise.

i think i speak for everyone when i say this, and i'm not trying to be rude/immature or whatever, but if you dont have a post that can be carried on in a civil matter about a logical topic, PLEASE, DONT POST IT!.
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Old 03-09-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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this is all very true, but you can't blame me for saying "punch you in the baby maker" cause that's a sweet line. i had to get that in there somewhere.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Tell me how a QB that only played 3 complete seasons in his career is great?

He took the Browns where? Nowhere! His stats are nowhere near great. Explain how he was great then I will agree. Just because he was the best the Browns ever had, doesnt say much. Why quetion me when I pointed out his INT's? Ask anyone outside of the Browns family and they will give you a non bias statement.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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Daylon gone. Russell a Seahawk.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2793525
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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like i said before, it's not just the stats or what he did on the field, he's a hero to a lot of browns fans for his personality, the way he acts, what he's done for the community, and the fact that he loved the browns.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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like i said before, it's not just the stats or what he did on the field, he's a hero to a lot of browns fans for his personality, the way he acts, what he's done for the community, and the fact that he loved the browns.
Were not arguing that hes a fan favorite, were arguing his career, something people severly overrate. But I can understand, since most current Browns fans believe Charlie Frye is an ok starter.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Were not arguing that hes a fan favorite, were arguing his career, something people severly overrate. But I can understand, since most current Browns fans believe Charlie Frye is an ok starter.
Nobody is arguing his validity as a starter except you.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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this is all very true, but you can't blame me for saying "punch you in the baby maker" cause that's a sweet line. i had to get that in there somewhere.
Or you can just keep re-watching Anchorman where you stole it from?
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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Nobody is arguing his validity as a starter except you.
i'm not sure if he's starter material, but i do think he's had an unfair shot with no complimenting run game and a sh*t OLine. plus, there were quite a few of his interceptions that were not his fualt. (thats why we lost to carolina) and how many balls did they drop in the steelers game? around 7 recorded i beleive.

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Tell me how a QB that only played 3 complete seasons in his career is great?

He took the Browns where? Nowhere! His stats are nowhere near great. Explain how he was great then I will agree. Just because he was the best the Browns ever had, doesnt say much. Why quetion me when I pointed out his INT's? Ask anyone outside of the Browns family and they will give you a non bias statement.
i didnt say he was great.

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Bernie WASN'T the greatest, but he was GOOD. nobody can say otherwise.
and please, dont use complete seasons as a sake of arguement. everyone gets injured in the NFL. it happens. this was pennington's first full season and he did pretty good. Big Ben will be remembered as one of the Steelers greats, but he's only had one full season so far. and he has had some great numbers, and some REALLY bad ones. Rex Grossman had 2 games below a 10 passer rating. but he's their starter and they made it to the superbowl.
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