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Old 04-06-2008, 08:07 PM    (permalink
JSimmsy21
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my favorite back in this draft is Jonathan Stewart. Guy ran a 4.48 at 235 and turf toe. then followed closely by forte who just a beast. BUT, chances are more than likely that we have less than a zero shot at either.

also, based on last year at this time, savage said repeadily that the offense needed fixed, mostly the OL. so many if not everybody thought that savage wouldnt throw all that money at JT after we signed Steinbach to a huge deal, but he did. sooo, i'm inclined to say that most if not all of our picks will go towards the front seven.

with that said, as far as RB goes, how bout chance Chauncey Washington? late rnd flier, should last till the last rnds or FA. just a thought. heres what NFLDC has to say about him.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...ashington.html
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Old 04-06-2008, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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"i got to see the WSU offense when harrison played. he's a system back. he ran for big yards in the *PAC-10* for cryin' out loud. outside of foster at UCLA, i can't think of a single non-USC RB that's done anything in the NFL."

If your refering to Pac10 RB's? Then there is Steven Jackson and Lynch etc...but Im not sure if thats the point you were trying to make?

If Lewis goes down and it is December, we traditionally run the ball more (just like 2007). Cold weather is difficult to maximize speed because you get stiff so the power run game has allways been what we rely on. harrison and Wright are and will not be great factors when that time comes.

Someone mentioned Vickers and he did play some TB at Colorado, but it doesnt translate to the pros IMO. He was around 235 in college hes now bulked to around 250 so im sure hes lost alittle.

We looked at Owen Schmitt in the draft. If we took him in Rd4 or 5 then it might mean that Vickers could be the power back-up to Lewis I guess. And like another poster mentioned Schmitt can be a special teams force and down the line a #3 TE maybe in the mold of Frank Wycheck in the late 1990's.
I'm not saying Vickers should carry the load but he should be able to take some of the load off Wright and Harrison if Lewis were to get hurt.
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Old 04-07-2008, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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"i got to see the WSU offense when harrison played. he's a system back. he ran for big yards in the *PAC-10* for cryin' out loud. outside of foster at UCLA, i can't think of a single non-USC RB that's done anything in the NFL."

If your refering to Pac10 RB's? Then there is Steven Jackson and Lynch etc...but Im not sure if thats the point you were trying to make?
i'll give you jackson, but he might as well be invisible playing for the rams. but i stand by the point that historically the PAC-10 (outside of USC) does not produce a lot of RBs that do well in the NFL compared to other BCS conferences; a lot of PAC-10 players have been successful in the NFL, just not a lot of RBs. but this could reflect the offensive systems you tend to see in the PAC-10.



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If Lewis goes down and it is December, we traditionally run the ball more (just like 2007). Cold weather is difficult to maximize speed because you get stiff so the power run game has allways been what we rely on. harrison and Wright are and will not be great factors when that time comes.

Someone mentioned Vickers and he did play some TB at Colorado, but it doesnt translate to the pros IMO. He was around 235 in college hes now bulked to around 250 so im sure hes lost alittle.
don't forget we can always use him for the FB option pass! <not>

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We looked at Owen Schmitt in the draft. If we took him in Rd4 or 5 then it might mean that Vickers could be the power back-up to Lewis I guess. And like another poster mentioned Schmitt can be a special teams force and down the line a #3 TE maybe in the mold of Frank Wycheck in the late 1990's.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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wow, this board has been dead for like a week. damn savage and not having a first rounder!!!
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Old 04-10-2008, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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only because not much else is going on:

- i noticed that the pats signed OLB hobson away from the jets. hobson is good enough to help the pats, but for whatever reason, never was on our radar.

- manningham admits he smoked dope in college. if he drops to the 4th round, should we take him?
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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He wont fall to round 4 no matter what he admitted to. If teams have called about Packman, then they dont care half as much about a pot smoker. And I dont think this is a Chris Henry case.
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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He wont fall to round 4 no matter what he admitted to. If teams have called about Packman, then they dont care half as much about a pot smoker. And I dont think this is a Chris Henry case.
i agree. although manningham's draft stock started to fall when he ran his forty, he got even worse. the biggest thing that hurt him is that fact that he lied about doing pot during the interview process at the combine.

Manningham's shot at going in the first are gone entirely. going top of the second are probably gone too. but he'll be off the board between late second and the third i'm sure. he's got great hands and runs good routes, and he has the "game speed." his baggage really hurt him tho.
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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savage said in the plain dealer or some other paper or something(where ever i read it, i forget) that he will not trade any player currently on the browns roster to acquire a higher pick in this years draft. he did say, however, that if a player were to fall that they really liked, then it would be trading away future picks.
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Old 04-12-2008, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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savage said in the plain dealer or some other paper or something(where ever i read it, i forget) that he will not trade any player currently on the browns roster to acquire a higher pick in this years draft. he did say, however, that if a player were to fall that they really liked, then it would be trading away future picks.
Savage said he would take Ngata if he fell to pick #12 2 years ago. He was there but we didnt select him......

Savage also said that after the Eagles were rumored the night before FA to sign Bentley that we had little interest in him. We ended up out bidding them.

He said at the begining of FA this year that we wouldnt make a big splash. We actually made one of the biggest in FA history.

He said there is no chance DA gets traded, but why did he delay the payments until after the draft which never happens in a FA contract?

HINT: dont believe Phil for a second.
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Old 04-12-2008, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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He never tips his hand and always sends out smokescreens, yes, but I don't think he is gonna trade DA at the draft b/c he won't get a good enough deal too. Hypothetically if we were offered say a top ten pick he would accept it (i'm sure we'd trade him for less than that of course), but I really doubt we'll be offered anything more than a 2nd or late 1st for DA if anything. And not to get sidetracked but what's to say we wouldn't have taken Ngata if we didn't swap with Baltimore in 2006? Sure we wanted Wimbley more, but with Ngata available there could've been a chance we wouldn't have passed on him...I guess we'll never know but by moving down for just an extra 7th rounder which is almost nothing it shows that we really wanted KWimbley even if we had Ngata rated higher. Baltimore certainly thought we'd take him I guess.
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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He never tips his hand and always sends out smokescreens, yes, but I don't think he is gonna trade DA at the draft b/c he won't get a good enough deal too. Hypothetically if we were offered say a top ten pick he would accept it (i'm sure we'd trade him for less than that of course), but I really doubt we'll be offered anything more than a 2nd or late 1st for DA if anything. And not to get sidetracked but what's to say we wouldn't have taken Ngata if we didn't swap with Baltimore in 2006? Sure we wanted Wimbley more, but with Ngata available there could've been a chance we wouldn't have passed on him...I guess we'll never know but by moving down for just an extra 7th rounder which is almost nothing it shows that we really wanted KWimbley even if we had Ngata rated higher. Baltimore certainly thought we'd take him I guess.
I think theres about a %5 chance that DA gets traded on draft day. I just mentioned it because its an odd situation. DA can have more of an impact on this team that any pick outside of the top 5-10 IMO.
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Im the biggest Savage supporter there is, but this is just bad.....


BUTCH PLAYERS BYE-BYE

Trading has been a conspicuous tool in a turnover that leaves the Browns with just six players acquired by former Head Coach Butch Davis.

Savage has dealt five key Davis draft picks — first-rounders Gerard Warren and Faine, second-rounder Andrι Davis, third-rounder Chris Crocker and fourth-rounder Luke McCown — all still in the league.

In return, respectively, Savage has received:

• Quarterback Trent Dilfer, who was 4-7 before handing off to Charlie Frye.

• Jackson, who cost the team Faine, deemed last month by the Bucs to be worth a $37.5 million contract.

• A 2006 Round 5 pick, used for cornerback DeMario Minter, who was cut Sept. 1.

• A 2006 Round 4 pick, used on guard Isaac Sowells, who has appeared in one game in two years.

• A 2005 Round 6 pick, used on lineman Andrew Hoffman, cut Sept. 1.

The Faine trade involved rotten luck. Losing him became a big deal when free agent LeCharles Bentley went down less than three months later.

Savage argues that the Crocker trade still might pan out, if Sowells fills in at guard this year or next. However, this looks more like a wrong guess in a draft. Players selected shortly after Sowells in the '06 draft include:

• Wideout Brandon Marshall, who gave the Broncos 1,325 receiving yards in 2007.

• Defensive lineman Barry Cofield, a Cleveland native who started on the defensive line for the Super Bowl Giants.

• Pass rusher Elvis Dumervil, who had 12 1/2 sacks for the Broncos last year.

• Guard Rob Sims, an Ohio State guy who started 16 games for a Seahawks playoff team in '07.

• Guard-tackle Willie Colon, who took Pittsburgh's starting right tackle job from Max Starks last year.


These moves really hurt our team in what we COULD have had compared to what we DID get.
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Those moves didn't hurt us in the least bit.

WE TRADED GARBAGE FOR DRAFT PICKS

At least Savage gave us a chance with the picks. They could have been good players. We knew those other players we nothing. He at least gave us a chance to find a good player and that is something Butch Davis and his players never gave us.

Not a single one of those players would be anything more than a third stringer on our team.

You're doing way too many drugs if you think keep anyone of those players would make us a better team right now. It was more about changing the scenry and attitude in the locker room, and giving this organization a sense of effort to change than about finding super star players in exchange for those players. Honestly, wtf, McCown, Warren, Crocker, Davis are you kidding me? You couldn't get anything better than Savage got for them if you were dealing with Butch Davis himself.
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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Faine, Crocker, Warren, Davis, McCown are all not good players. Faine is the only one who should be starting, but he is a west coast type center only pretty much and would get manhandled even more if he stayed in the AFC North. Our offensive line is one of the 5 best in the league, maybe 3 best, without Faine. Davis is worthless to us, he would be an expensive #4 WR and a backup KR/PR to the far superior Joshua Cribbs. Warren is a backup overweight pass rushing DT who is not a very good pass rusher, maybe good for 2 or 3 sacks if he played every snap and bad against the run. McCown is a 4th or 5th string QB on Tampa Bay and will get cut by September. The fact that we traded Chris Crocker - an average at best safety who is really just below average - for a fourth round pick was a steal. It doesn't matter that Sowells hasn't worked out, but we took that chance and it could've been better off, the draft is hit or miss.
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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agreed. i think cribbs>hester said it perfect. "we traded garbage for draft picks." and to say that we missed out on a player from a super bowl team and someone that replaced the steelers starting RT is hindsight. no one knew. the only reason dumervil got a shot at playing was b/c everyone else got hurt on their line. they still have a crap defense last year. the steelers OL is still a mess. Rob sims has been extremely inconsistent for Seattle. thats why they signed Whale.

true, savage has screwed up some second day draft picks. pretty much all of them except for vickers, mcdonald, and williams. he did, however, draft starters in the first two rounds of all three of his drafts so far. i'd MUCH rather him screw up second day picks than those first and second rounders.

our locker room presence sucked, those players were extremely unmotivated, and not in shape/always hurt. savage did us a favor by getting rid of all those players and starting over with his, and Romeo's, own players.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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it's kinda pointless to talk about who we missed on. We are dumb for missing on Tom Brady in 2000 when we took Spergon Wynn, hit or miss is the name of the game. Just having more picks gives the possibility of drafting a hit a higher percentage.

In other words, complaining about trading away Chris Crocker and complaining about how we used the pick we got for him are mutually exclusive events. We got Crocker for a 4th round pick, steal. Us not using that fourth rounder as well as we could've has nothing to do with Chris really. If anything think about this: we would've taken Sowells with the round 4 pick we used on WIlliams b/c he was taken first remember, so no Crocker trade no Williams. Williams isn't far off from being as valuable as Crocker is. Not a star or maybe not even a starter, but not a bad trade.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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it's kinda pointless to talk about who we missed on. We are dumb for missing on Tom Brady in 2000 when we took Spergon Wynn, hit or miss is the name of the game. Just having more picks gives the possibility of drafting a hit a higher percentage.

In other words, complaining about trading away Chris Crocker and complaining about how we used the pick we got for him are mutually exclusive events. We got Crocker for a 4th round pick, steal. Us not using that fourth rounder as well as we could've has nothing to do with Chris really. If anything think about this: we would've taken Sowells with the round 4 pick we used on WIlliams b/c he was taken first remember, so no Crocker trade no Williams. Williams isn't far off from being as valuable as Crocker is. Not a star or maybe not even a starter, but not a bad trade.
Keylime I find it funny. You are the first to praise a good job and the first to down play a bad one. Im being fair. Savage has made some mistakes and I was simply pointing out some of them. I would much rather have Chris Crocker as our main back-up safety then Isaac Sowells as a practice squad guard.

I think everyone of us would prefer Andre Davis back compared to Demario Minter.

Davis and Crocker would have really helped this team last year, enstead we had Sowells and Minter who was cut.

I could care less about these trades overall because Im more tham pleased with how our current team is, but quit acting like Savage has made all the right calls.
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Keylime I find it funny. You are the first to praise a good job and the first to down play a bad one. Im being fair. Savage has made some mistakes and I was simply pointing out some of them. I would much rather have Chris Crocker as our main back-up safety then Isaac Sowells as a practice squad guard.

I think everyone of us would prefer Andre Davis back compared to Demario Minter.

Davis and Crocker would have really helped this team last year, enstead we had Sowells and Minter who was cut.

I could care less about these trades overall because Im more tham pleased with how our current team is, but quit acting like Savage has made all the right calls.
I agree with keylime. Savage wasn't deciding between crocker and sowells, nor was he deciding between andre davis and minter. No one jumped on him for trading either one of those two guys, whose value to our team at the time was essentially zero.

If you are going to criticize him, you do so on the basis that he did not select players that are producing now. The moves to get the picks are absolutely separate, and they were good moves at the time.
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Old 04-16-2008, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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So outside of the AFC North, only 2 of the 10 teams we play had a losing season last year.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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It's one thing to have a problem with trading Chris Crocker for a 4th round pick. That was brilliant considering Crocker is not worth a 4th rounder by any stretch. The fact that we didn't capitalize on that 4th round pick is completely mutually exclusive. It would be like trading Braylon Edwards for a 7th round pick. Stupid move. But by some dumb luck say we draft an allpro with that pick. Great trade sure, but the odds of that happening are remote. You take your chances and Phil did a great thing by getting a 4th round pick which is a very high chance at a decent player. It just didn't happen.

In other words, if we trade say Jerome Harrison for a 1st round pick and Harrison never does anything in his whole career, and then that first round pick ends up being a complete bust, does that make it a bad trade? Heck no, it was a great trade even if the pick fails b/c there was a high chance of it working. We'd have made the Chris Crocker trade ten times out of ten if we could do it over. The draft pick would've been different if we could have done it over. Mutually exclusive, see what I mean?
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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We lost good depth and a great special teams player who was still young in Chris Crocker. Depth that we needed last year. And you say its not a big deal because we got a 4rth round pick.

So your willing to trade a cheap, not yet in their prime, special teams ace that could fill in on deffense if needed safety for a draft pick that wont even make the team this year and has never even stepped on the field for the most part?

However you try to defend Savage you cant. He made a mistake however you cut the bread.

The guy isnt perfect thats all im saying so stop licking the peanut butter off his balls.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DawgBone View Post
The guy isnt perfect thats all im saying so stop licking the peanut butter off his balls.
You wonder why people are always arguing and getting mad at you. You provoke people way too much.
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:21 AM    (permalink
jriles0522
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Originally Posted by DawgBone View Post
We lost good depth and a great special teams player who was still young in Chris Crocker. Depth that we needed last year. And you say its not a big deal because we got a 4rth round pick.

So your willing to trade a cheap, not yet in their prime, special teams ace that could fill in on deffense if needed safety for a draft pick that wont even make the team this year and has never even stepped on the field for the most part?

However you try to defend Savage you cant. He made a mistake however you cut the bread.

The guy isnt perfect thats all im saying so stop licking the peanut butter off his balls.
special teams ace not worth a fourth round pick?

we found a special teams ace of the street corner, his name is nick sorensen, those guys are not hard to come by. big deal crocker could be a 3rd or 4th string safety.

sounds like you're the one with the peanut butter
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:29 AM    (permalink
DawgBone
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do you need some jelly? Geshhhh, if they werent hard to come by we wouldnt have re-signed 2 of them this offseason as quickly as we could.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:29 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
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Trading Chris for a 4th round pick was not the mistake. The mistake was taking Sowells with that pick. We got Leon Williams anyways with our 2nd 4th round pick. If we didn't trade Crocker we would've had just Sowells, instead we got Leon and Sowells. And if you look at it from that perspective Leon is more valuable to our team right now than Crocker would be.
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