Cleveland Browns General Discussion - Page 82

Brown Leader · 04-17-2010, 03:45 PM

Jennings arrested.
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010..._arrested.html

Bad timing Chris.

fear the elf · 04-20-2010, 11:43 AM

How would you grade out the Browns by position (or each individual player) right now? Going by the Plain Dealer depth chart, here is how we look:

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme
FB Vickers
RB Harrison/Hillis
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs
TE Watson
LT Thomas
LG Steinbach
C Mack
RG Womack
RT Pashos

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith
NT Rubin
RDE Rogers
LOLB Fujita
LILB Barton
RILB Jackson
ROLB Roth
LCB Wright
RCB Brown
SS Elam
FS Adams

*I took the liberty of moving Rogers to DE and Rubin to starting NT

Here is what I think (not a ton of thought put in, mind you):

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme :: B-
FB Vickers :: A
RB Harrison/Hillis :: B/B-
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs :: B-/C-/C-/D+
TE Watson :: B+
LT Thomas :: A+
LG Steinbach :: A-
C Mack :: B+
RG Womack :: C
RT Pashos :: B

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith :: C+/C+
NT Rubin :: B
RDE Rogers :: A-
LOLB Fujita :: B
LILB Barton :: C+
RILB Jackson :: B
ROLB Roth :: B+
LCB Wright :: B+
RCB Brown :: A-
SS Elam :: B-
FS Adams :: C-

Where do you think we need to make moves (aka - who needs to be replaced)? So... How do you think we grade out?

wonderbredd24 · 04-20-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fear the elf

How would you grade out the Browns by position (or each individual player) right now? Going by the Plain Dealer depth chart, here is how we look:

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme
FB Vickers
RB Harrison/Hillis
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs
TE Watson
LT Thomas
LG Steinbach
C Mack
RG Womack
RT Pashos

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith
NT Rubin
RDE Rogers
LOLB Fujita
LILB Barton
RILB Jackson
ROLB Roth
LCB Wright
RCB Brown
SS Elam
FS Adams

*I took the liberty of moving Rogers to DE and Rubin to starting NT

Here is what I think (not a ton of thought put in, mind you):

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme :: B-
FB Vickers :: A
RB Harrison/Hillis :: B/B-
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs :: B-/C-/C-/D+
TE Watson :: B+
LT Thomas :: A+
LG Steinbach :: A-
C Mack :: B+
RG Womack :: C
RT Pashos :: B

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith :: C+/C+
NT Rubin :: B
RDE Rogers :: A-
LOLB Fujita :: B
LILB Barton :: C+
RILB Jackson :: B
ROLB Roth :: B+
LCB Wright :: B+
RCB Brown :: A-
SS Elam :: B-
FS Adams :: C-

Where do you think we need to make moves (aka - who needs to be replaced)? So... How do you think we grade out?

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme :: C
FB Vickers :: A
RB Harrison/Hillis :: C+/B-
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs :: B-/C-/C-/D+
TE Watson :: B
LT Thomas :: A+
LG Steinbach :: C+
C Mack :: B+
RG Womack :: C-
RT Pashos :: B-

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith :: C/C
NT Rubin :: B
RDE Rogers :: A-
LOLB Fujita :: C
LILB Barton :: C-
RILB Jackson :: B-
ROLB Roth :: B
LCB Wright :: B+
RCB Brown :: B
SS Elam :: C
FS Adams :: C-

Safety, guard, defensive end, and while we have a pile of linebackers, none of them are all that great... and we need another running back and another corner

And the depth at most every position.

jriles0522 · 04-20-2010, 01:42 PM

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme C+
FB Vickers A
RB Harrison/Hillis C each, C+ as a unit
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs- C/C-/D/D---This is a joke.
TE Watson B
LT Thomas A+
LG Steinbach B
C Mack B+
RG Womack B-
RT Pashos B- (His play will be huge, I hope for better than average)

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith B-
NT Rubin B
RDE Rogers A-
LOLB Fujita B
LILB Barton B-
RILB Jackson B
ROLB Roth B+
LCB Wright A-
RCB Brown A-
SS Elam B-
FS Adams C+

Basically we have a bunch of average guys. I think WR is are weakest position.

We need studs at

WR
S
LB (both)

Brown Leader · 04-20-2010, 02:23 PM

OFFENSE
QB Wallace C+
FB Vickers B
RB Harrison/Hillis/Cribbs B each
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs C/D/D/D
TE Watson B
LT Thomas A
LG Steinbach C+
C Mack A
RG Womack C
RT Pashos C

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman D
NT Rubin C+
RDE Rogers B
LOLB Gocong C
LILB Fujita B
RILB Jackson B
ROLB Roth B
LCB Wright C+
RCB Brown B
SS Elam D
FS Adams C

KR/PR Cribbs A+

Took liberty on a few spots. Clearly WR and S need the most help. But we should focus on running the ball and rushing the passer.

keylime_5 · 04-20-2010, 03:22 PM

I don't think they're moving Rogers to DE. I think Rogers starts at nose with Coleman and Smith at end with Rubin rotating in at NT. You gotta remember that Shaun isn't exactly a guy with a lot of endurance who plays too many snaps. They might play him some at DE b/c they like to move guys around up front, but he's the starting nose with Rubin and Mosley the 4th and 5th linemen rotating in. I expect our 6th DL will come in the draft.

QB-Delhomme/Wallace (D+)
RB-Harrison/Hillis/Davis/Jennings (B)
FB-Vickers (B+)
WR-Massaqoui/Robiskie/Cribbs/Stuckey (C-)
TE-Watson (C+)
LT-Thomas (A+)
LG-Steinbach (B)
C-Mack (A)
RG-Womack (C-)
RT-Pashos (C)

DE-Coleman (B-)
NT-Rogers/Rubin (A)
DE-Smith (B+)
OLB-Gocong/Bowens (B-)
ILB-Jackson (B+)
ILB-Fujita (B)
OLB-Roth (B+)
CB-Brown (A)
CB-Wright (A)
FS-Adams (C)
SS-Elam (C+)

we need to draft a lot of defensive players and I think it'll take at least 4 years to build a really good defensive core - though the mix of veterans and young role players we have right now can be a good scrappy unit as we saw at the end of the year at times. Offensively we need a franchise QB and a #1 WR really, everything else after that is trimmings.

keylime_5 · 04-20-2010, 06:02 PM

looks like we have a good chance to extend our winning streak to 5 or 6 games with week one and two matchups @TB and KC respectively.

http://www.nfl.com/schedules/interactive#/team=CLE

lacotomo · 04-21-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Mike Adams was a safety playing corner, Mike Furrey is a wide receiver playing safety, to put it kindly Brandon McDonald is inconsistent, Hank Poteat is awful, and Abram Elam is an in-the-box safety

They threw at everyone else but Wright. Those statistics are absolutely meaningless.

I wouldn't say meaningless. When Deion had no ints and very few tackles because nobody threw to his side, was he considered not that great? Revis Island is usually pretty lonely a lot because nobody throws that way either, yet low stats don't make him average.

Before you get upset, I am not saying Wright is Deion or Revis, but if he is good enough for someone to not throw at all day (along with everyone else being bad), then that says something about his potential to be a high, high caliber player in this league. There are only a handful of corners who eliminate half the field. Let's see what he does with some help.

lacotomo · 04-21-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morton

Here's the deal:

You only should bring in 30+ year old veterans if you are primed to make a playoff run NOW.

The Browns are a TERRIBLE team with many, many holes, and zero stability at the QB position. Adding an aging, solid CB will not matter because he will only be an starter for 3 years tops, and there is nothing to indicate a playoff caliber team within that time frame. Again, you underestimate the importance of a QB.

Unless Jake Delhomme or Seneca Wallace magically turn into Peyton Manning overnight, or they draft Jimmy Clausen and he turns into Tom Brady within the next 2 years, this move really does make zero sense because a team like the Browns with so many holes and so few chances to be a playoff team should not be trading for aging veterans, and instead should be stockpiling draft picks to rebuild their roster into a talented young core.

Someone else mentioned the folly of not getting players unless they are prospects. Sure Brown might not play in a playoff game again in his career, but you need players like that to make you better so you can:
1. Develop/analyize players around him.(Is Wright that good, or will he be exposed when people throw his way).
2. Give your D line a chance to be disruptive.
3. Win some games a)for the fans, b) so free agents and everyone else doesn't look at Cleveland like an armpit of the NFL.
4. 2 words- STOP GAP. It gives us time to find the right long term fit, and watch out if he actually mentors some of the young guys.

In the end, Delhomme and Brown are great examples of leader type players that have done good things and can help stem the tide and keep Cleveland from being so terrible now, while building for the future. We gave up almost nothing for a starting DB, the most glaring weakness on this team for the past 2 years at least. Now the Haden love can stop (didn't like him anyway) and we can plug a different hole now and wait for the right spot in the draft, or free agent CB to help out when Brown is out of gas.

Iamcanadian · 04-23-2010, 02:59 PM

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme C
FB Vickers C+
RB Harrison/Hillis C
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs- C-
TE Watson B
LT Thomas A+
LG Steinbach A-
C Mack B
RG Womack C
RT Pashos C

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith C
NT Rubin C-
RDE Rogers B+
LOLB Fujita C
LILB Barton C+
RILB Jackson B
ROLB Roth C
LCB Wright B
RCB Brown C+
SS Elam C-
FS Adams C-

fear the elf · 04-23-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

OFFENSE
QB Delhomme C
FB Vickers C+
RB Harrison/Hillis C
WR Massaquoi/Robiskie/Stuckey/Cribbs- C-
TE Watson B
LT Thomas A+
LG Steinbach A-
C Mack B
RG Womack C
RT Pashos C

DEFENSE
LDE Coleman/R. Smith C
NT Rubin C-
RDE Rogers B+
LOLB Fujita C
LILB Barton C+
RILB Jackson B
ROLB Roth C
LCB Wright B
RCB Brown C+
SS Elam C-
FS Adams C-

Whoa whoa whoa. You gave Vickers a C+? Not cool man. Not cool at all.

keylime_5 · 04-23-2010, 04:20 PM

i wouldn't call 'Canadian the most optomistic poster, you're lucky he got the "+" instead of just the "C."

Iamcanadian · 04-23-2010, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fear the elf

Whoa whoa whoa. You gave Vickers a C+? Not cool man. Not cool at all.

I think we have a few guys who can get better, Vickers and Mack among them but I'm just being realistic at this point and not getting too carried away until we start to win more than we lose.

keylime_5 · 04-25-2010, 12:16 PM

53 MAN ROSTER EARLY PREDICTIONS!!!

QB(3)-Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace, Colt McCoy
RB(3)-Jerome Harrison, Montario Hardesty, Petyon Hillis
FB(1)-Lawrence Vickers
WR(5)-Mohamed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, Joshua Cribbs, Chansi Stuckey, Carlton Mitchell
TE(3)-Benjamin Watson, Robert Royal, Evan Moore
OL(9)-Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Eric Steinbach, Tony Pashos, Floyd Womack, John St.Clair, Eric Ghiaciuc, Jason Capizzi, Shawn Lauvao

DL(6)-Shaun Rogers, Robaire Smith, Kenyon Coleman, Ahtyba Rubin, CJ Mosley, Clifton Geathers
LB(9)-D'Qwell Jackson, Matt Roth, Scott Fujita, David Bowens, Chris Gocong, Jason Trusnik, Marcus Benard, Kaluka Maiava, Blake Constanzo
CB(6)-Sheldon Brown, Eric Wright, Joe Haden, Brandon McDonald, Gerard Lawson, Coye Francies
S(5)-Abram Elam, Mike Adams, TJ Ward, Larry Asante, Nick Sorenson

ST(3)-Phil Dawson, Dave Zastudil, Ryan Pontbriand

BUBBLES JUUUST POPPED: James Davis, David Veikune

I figure it's Maiava vs Veikune for the last ILB spot and Sorenson vs Ventrone for the special teams safety. If we keep 5 backs instead of 4 then Davis could make the roster, but it's hard finding how to fit him in. They usually keep 6 guys, but it will be interesting to see which ones get the 5th and 6th spots. Lawson I guess since he plays special teams, and I would guess Francies is in as long as he isn't bad and if we don't sign any veteran corners.

Overall we've come a long way talent-wise compared to 2004 when Butch was fired. Granted we did take a step back after unloading Edwards, Winslow, Stallworth, Jurevicius, Anderson, and all the talent we had when we decided to rebuild again after firing Crennel...but we weren't going anywhere with those guys.

wonderbredd24 · 04-29-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Browns | Ahtyba Rubin could start this season
Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:34:28 -0400

Cleveland Browns DL Ahtyba Rubin could start at nose tackle this season, reports Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Quote:

Browns | Could move Shaun Rogers to DE
Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:31:11 -0400

The Cleveland Browns could move DT Shaun Rogers to defensive end this season, reports Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Quote:

Browns | Several RFAs still unsigned
Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:27:30 -0400

Cleveland Browns restricted free-agent FB Lawrence Vickers, RB Jerome Harrison, LB Matt Roth, LB D'Qwell Jackson and FS Abram Elam have not signed their tender offers and have been absent from the team's offseason conditioning program, reports the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Tony Grossi.

Quote:

Browns | Could look to add veteran WR
Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:27:05 -0400

The Cleveland Browns may look to add a veteran wide receiver through free agency before the season, reports Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

I hope the stuff with Rubin and Rogers is true

keylime_5 · 04-29-2010, 02:21 PM

Rubin is a guy you want to be in rotation, so Rogers is gonna play at least half of the nose tackle snaps b/c we don't have a 2nd guy to play with Rubin if Rogers were to be a full time end (which is what we heard a lot of last year with all the BJ Raji first round speculation). I expect Rogers will move around a lot kinda like how they moved Mosley and Williams around a lot last year.

wonderbredd24 · 04-29-2010, 02:24 PM

Athyba Rubin is a better nose tackle in our 3-4 system than Shaun Rogers. Period.

jriles0522 · 04-29-2010, 09:10 PM

I have high hopes for our defense.

Second year under Rob Ryan, hopefully he's got a year to evaluate the players' strengths and weaknesses, and makes necessary adjustments. We'll see what he can do with a much improved secondary.

I look for Haden, Wright, and Brown to be such an unbelievable upgrade over Wright, B-Mac, and Poteat. I can't even believe we fielded those 3 corners on an NFL roster. The safety play was just as bad, if not worse. Mike Furrey/Adams and Elam? What a joke. TJ Ward is probably the best safety on our roster right now and I've never even seen him play (except the Rose Bowl).

We've been scorched so many times by big passing performances it was impossible to watch these clowns last year at times. I have high expectations for these guys in the defensive backfield.

I think we have enough bodies at linebacker to find some decent combos. I'm looking forward to seeing who comes out of this pile as the key 5-6 guys. I don't think Veikune will ever get it, but maybe we can be surprised.

wonderbredd24 · 04-29-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jriles0522

I don't think Veikune will ever get it, but maybe we can be surprised.

Why do you think he won't ever get it?

jriles0522 · 04-29-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderbredd24

Why do you think he won't ever get it?

I guess I don't have that great of a reason. My first thought was how could a guy not even get on the field as a 2nd round pick when our entire team was decimated at LB. I mean Titus Brown, Marcus Benard, Matt Roth, Kaluka Maluka, Justin Trusnick? All those guys played ahead of him last year. Clearly he didn't get whatever the coaches were trying to get him to do. Especially since they had to think he would make a fairly smooth transition to reach for him in round 2 knowing they were going to convert him anyway. That, and the fact that he's from Hawaii? Can't exactly name any defensive stalwarts. And don't give me Travis LeBoy.

So that was my initial answer, until I realized how similar Robiskie's year was to his, and I think Robo will be fine. I think Robiskie has more talent, I've seen him play a ton, and he was a fringe first rounder, supposed to be most polished, NFL ready WR in the draft last year. Somehow, for reasons we'll never know, he didn't get on the ******* field either.

So you ask a decent question, maybe just because one guy's a converted DE from Hawaii, via a JR college and the others a polished WR from OSU.

Not the greatest answer, but maybe it doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

keylime_5 · 04-29-2010, 09:49 PM

well Veikune's problem definitely isn't understanding the concepts of the defense or the X's and O's. It's probably a lot to do with his physical transition from the WAC to the NFL as a rookie, moving from DE to ILB no less. This is the year we find out if he's gonna be a scrub or potentially a player.

wonderbredd24 · 04-29-2010, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jriles0522

I guess I don't have that great of a reason. My first thought was how could a guy not even get on the field as a 2nd round pick when our entire team was decimated at LB. I mean Titus Brown, Marcus Benard, Matt Roth, Kaluka Maluka, Justin Trusnick? All those guys played ahead of him last year. Clearly he didn't get whatever the coaches were trying to get him to do. Especially since they had to think he would make a fairly smooth transition to reach for him in round 2 knowing they were going to convert him anyway. That, and the fact that he's from Hawaii? Can't exactly name any defensive stalwarts. And don't give me Travis LeBoy.

So that was my initial answer, until I realized how similar Robiskie's year was to his, and I think Robo will be fine. I think Robiskie has more talent, I've seen him play a ton, and he was a fringe first rounder, supposed to be most polished, NFL ready WR in the draft last year. Somehow, for reasons we'll never know, he didn't get on the ******* field either.

So you ask a decent question, maybe just because one guy's a converted DE from Hawaii, via a JR college and the others a polished WR from OSU.

Not the greatest answer, but maybe it doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Personally, I always figured last year was going to be a redshirt year for Veikune because he was going from a defensive end with some experience as nose tackle of all things and was going to learn both outside and inside linebacker. That's a lot for anyone to digest, so it didn't bother me that he didn't do much last year. This year, after a full year, I think it's time for him to start showing up in camp and such.

I'm more concerned about Robiskie, but honestly I think he will be fine as well.

jriles0522 · 04-29-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

well Veikune's problem definitely isn't understanding the concepts of the defense or the X's and O's. It's probably a lot to do with his physical transition from the WAC to the NFL as a rookie, moving from DE to ILB no less. This is the year we find out if he's gonna be a scrub or potentially a player.

Ha, both of you guys have totally different reasons for why he didn't make it. I tend to lean towards scheme. Who knows.

Brown Leader · 04-30-2010, 01:44 AM

I don't think there's any mystery to it whatsoever. They didn't show enough to the coaches to earn playing time.

My guess-I think Robiskie's issue was his strength. With his lack of suddenness and speed he needs to push people around. Veikune is not fluid enough.

fear the elf · 04-30-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

I don't think there's any mystery to it whatsoever. They didn't show enough to the coaches to earn playing time.

My guess-I think Robiskie's issue was his strength. With his lack of suddenness and speed he needs to push people around. Veikune is not fluid enough.

Not fluid enough to be a thumping ILB?