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Old 11-14-2007, 06:48 PM    (permalink
7-11
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good point, but I have absolutely no idea what Im gonna go to college for. The only thing I know is sports. Not too many Majors in that subject.
Yeah that hurts, I'm pretty much the same but I'm already at university, doing a finance/economics degree and i have no idea why. Physiotherapy is about the only thing i can come up with that I'm even slightly interested in and the only reason being its just about the most sport related profession i can come up with.
What is the world raising these days? a bunch of kids that can rattle of every starting player in the NFL but struggle to remember the 1st 5 elements on the periodic table.
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Most of life, not all, youll have someone to rely on. Whats wrong with getting a couple answers from someone?

I would be the best teacher. If my students wanted to cheat, go ahead, they would only be hurting themselves. and I wouldnt give homework :)

edit: you might be thinking, if I think like that, why do I cheat on tests? Well thats because Im not old enough to realize im screwing myself over for the future. I hate being lazy.
You're cheating yourself and your classmates if you cheat. You cheapen everybody's education.

And trust me, you won't be able to rely on people your whole life. If you do, you're nothing but a leecher.

But hey, you're in high school, you're not supposed to know what the real world is like. :D
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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The only thing i really cheated on were Vocab Quizzes. Just not good at remembering vocab words.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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About 3/4ths of my Intro to Astronomy class last year cheated. Our teacher gave the same tests to his Tues/Thurs and Mon/Wed/Fri classes. We had tests on Fri they had them on thurs. Someone would go on thurs, get a copy of each test, and leave. We would fill out the answers and pass the questions to anyone we knew in the class.

On the final the girl next to me found out, and got pissed. I hurried up, turned it in and got the hell out of their. She didn't know who I was, so she couldn't tell the professor. Hell, he didn't know who I was so it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

I cheated all the time in HS, even though I didn't really need to. If I spent a half hour studying, I would have easily gotten A's. I usually took longer than that devising a cheating system. But, our class valedictorian had a crush on me, so if I had her for a class, I sat next to her and she let me cheat. She would get pissed off at ANYONE else who cheated from her, but I'm special.

Now that I no longer have large classes, it is in no way worth it to cheat. Instead, I just try to get classes where we write essays instead of take tests.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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You're cheating yourself and your classmates if you cheat. You cheapen everybody's education.

And trust me, you won't be able to rely on people your whole life. If you do, you're nothing but a leecher.

But hey, you're in high school, you're not supposed to know what the real world is like. :D
The way I see it, the less work you have to do to get ahead, the better. It is always better to pawn work off on someone else and be able to take the credit. Is that unethical, probably, but if I can get away with it, I am damn sure going to do it.

You have got to be kidding me with those first two sentences. You cheapen everyones education? Come on, most of the stuff you learn is pointless anyway, even in college.

It depends how well you can manipulate people into how much you can depend on others. Again, probably unethical, but the people who are unethical tend to be the most successful.

That all being said, I no longer cheat. The risks are not worth the rewards once I have gotten into my major. Being kicked out of school and off the football team is not worth saving an hour or two of studying for tests a week.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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How about the fact that the purpose of school is not to get good grades but to learn...studying and actually learning is the best way to gaurantee a good grade.

Tests are actually useful tools to gage what a student has learned so if you were a semi-decent teacher you would care.
How about the fact that just about everything you learn you only learn for the test and forget shortly after? The point of school is to get good grades. What you learn in school really doesn't matter. Just about all of it is completely pointless after you leave school.

I am a history major, yet tell me what job I could possibly have that I would need to know specific historical dates, and not be able to look them up?
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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The way I see it, the less work you have to do to get ahead, the better. It is always better to pawn work off on someone else and be able to take the credit. Is that unethical, probably, but if I can get away with it, I am damn sure going to do it.

You have got to be kidding me with those first two sentences. You cheapen everyones education? Come on, most of the stuff you learn is pointless anyway, even in college.

It depends how well you can manipulate people into how much you can depend on others. Again, probably unethical, but the people who are unethical tend to be the most successful.

That all being said, I no longer cheat. The risks are not worth the rewards once I have gotten into my major. Being kicked out of school and off the football team is not worth saving an hour or two of studying for tests a week.
There is too much ethical thinking on this board, I'm pretty sure I don't even have any. I'll cheat and lie my way through life, as long as it doesn't hurt people i really have no problem with it. Sad, but true
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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There is too much ethical thinking on this board, I'm pretty sure I don't even have any. I'll cheat and lie my way through life, as long as it doesn't hurt people i really have no problem with it. Sad, but true
No kidding, sorry to all you people who have ethics, the people without them are going to pass you up in every way. You won't even be able to look back at your life and feel better about it, because I don't feel guilty about what I do in any way, shape or form.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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The way I see it, the less work you have to do to get ahead, the better. It is always better to pawn work off on someone else and be able to take the credit. Is that unethical, probably, but if I can get away with it, I am damn sure going to do it.

You have got to be kidding me with those first two sentences. You cheapen everyones education? Come on, most of the stuff you learn is pointless anyway, even in college.

It depends how well you can manipulate people into how much you can depend on others. Again, probably unethical, but the people who are unethical tend to be the most successful.

That all being said, I no longer cheat. The risks are not worth the rewards once I have gotten into my major. Being kicked out of school and off the football team is not worth saving an hour or two of studying for tests a week.
How do you think it reflects on graduates from the same school if they go into the workplace unprepared because they cheated their way through school? Worse, what if they get caught and it becomes big news. This has happened and it absolutely decimates a school's academic reputation which in turn cheapens your degree. Also, it creates an unfair playing field because your classmates who are cheating are achieving better marks than you, making you look worse by comparison.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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How do you think it reflects on graduates from the same school if they go into the workplace unprepared because they cheated their way through school? Worse, what if they get caught and it becomes big news. This has happened and it absolutely decimates a school's academic reputation which in turn cheapens your degree. Also, it creates an unfair playing field because your classmates who are cheating are achieving better marks than you, making you look worse by comparison.
With the rampant grade inflation going on in colleges around the country(probably also the world) getting better grades by cheating doesn't mean a whole lot. The ability to cheat and get away with it is at least as useful, if not more useful, than the actual learning going on in college. Life is not fair, it cannot and will not ever be fair. You can be on the side that complains how it isn't fair, or you can take matters into your own hands. I would prefer to take matters into my own hands, but only when the rewards outweigh the risks.

Tell me, for the vast majority of graduates, who do not end up even using their degree as they intended, what good does knowing the specifics you are taught in school do you? What exactly will I need to know a specific historical date for? What will someone who majors in biology, but ends up working in a cubicle(because face it, the vast majority of people do end up working that type of job) need to know about the specifics of biology, that any competent person can easily look up?
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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No kidding, sorry to all you people who have ethics, the people without them are going to pass you up in every way. You won't even be able to look back at your life and feel better about it, because I don't feel guilty about what I do in any way, shape or form.
I'm exactly the same man, if i didn't cheat through high school i probably wouldn't have the opportunities i have at University i have now, and i'm making the most of these opportunites so i struggle to see the problem. Sure i could of worked hard but then i'd be in the exact same position i'm in now and highschool wouldn't have been nearly as fun. In other words i have no regrets about cheating in the past, i'd still be cheating if it wasn't so risky.
And how can you honestly feel guilty about school? that i just don't get
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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With the rampant grade inflation going on in colleges around the country(probably also the world) getting better grades by cheating doesn't mean a whole lot. The ability to cheat and get away with it is at least as useful, if not more useful, than the actual learning going on in college. Life is not fair, it cannot and will not ever be fair. You can be on the side that complains how it isn't fair, or you can take matters into your own hands. I would prefer to take matters into my own hands, but only when the rewards outweigh the risks.

Tell me, for the vast majority of graduates, who do not end up even using their degree as they intended, what good does knowing the specifics you are taught in school do you? What exactly will I need to know a specific historical date for? What will someone who majors in biology, but ends up working in a cubicle(because face it, the vast majority of people do end up working that type of job) need to know about the specifics of biology, that any competent person can easily look up?
First of all, I have no idea what college you attend, but most colleges teach you a combination of functional skills (ie. accounting, researching, writing, experimenting, etc.) and knowledge. If you think either of those things is useless, you clearly don't understand what it takes to be successful. You can't just "look up" how to effectively design a car, or analyze a problem in a business and solve it.

Second of all, this is why cheating help nobody:
1) The person who cheats - they don't learn anything and this will likely be quickly discovered by whoever hires them...if they even get that far
2) The university - they get a bad reputation because they produce unqualified graduates
3) The other graduates - they can't get jobs because the cheaters make them all look bad

It's a lose-lose.

Hell, if you're just using college to be able to show off a few good marks why not just forge a diploma and transcript and save yourself time and money?
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Would, "get off your ass and study" work better?
lol, I meant I was just rambling on with my post. But yeah studying would probably be a good thing.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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With the rampant grade inflation going on in colleges around the country(probably also the world) getting better grades by cheating doesn't mean a whole lot. The ability to cheat and get away with it is at least as useful, if not more useful, than the actual learning going on in college. Life is not fair, it cannot and will not ever be fair. You can be on the side that complains how it isn't fair, or you can take matters into your own hands. I would prefer to take matters into my own hands, but only when the rewards outweigh the risks.

Tell me, for the vast majority of graduates, who do not end up even using their degree as they intended, what good does knowing the specifics you are taught in school do you? What exactly will I need to know a specific historical date for? What will someone who majors in biology, but ends up working in a cubicle(because face it, the vast majority of people do end up working that type of job) need to know about the specifics of biology, that any competent person can easily look up?
haha, that first part is so awesomely true. And the rest is 100% correct in my opinion, sure if your doing a specific degree which directly relates to a career path afterwards then cheating probably wouldn't be brilliant. But even in saying this, as someone who has a job that directly relates to their degree i can honestly say that 98% of what is expected of me is learnt on the job, and doesnt relate to my university degree a great deal at all. I imagine its slightly different for a doctor for example but whatever.

But considering i spend most of my day here and the rest of the internet i may not be the best example
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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sit next to a hot chick that looks smart

then, when you have group projects, she knows all the answers and you get credit for the project

easy "A"

works all the time
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm exactly the same man, if i didn't cheat through high school i probably wouldn't have the opportunities i have at University i have now, and i'm making the most of these opportunites so i struggle to see the problem. Sure i could of worked hard but then i'd be in the exact same position i'm in now and highschool wouldn't have been nearly as fun. In other words i have no regrets about cheating in the past, i'd still be cheating if it wasn't so risky.
And how can you honestly feel guilty about school? that i just don't get
Do you think Martha Stewart feels guilty? I doubt it. Same with the countless other people who cheat in the "real world."

Maybe it is because I am an egoist, and I believe the world would work better if everyone looks out for themselves first and foremost.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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First of all, I have no idea what college you attend, but most colleges teach you a combination of functional skills (ie. accounting, researching, writing, experimenting, etc.) and knowledge. If you think either of those things is useless, you clearly don't understand what it takes to be successful. You can't just "look up" how to effectively design a car, or analyze a problem in a business and solve it.

Second of all, this is why cheating help nobody:
1) The person who cheats - they don't learn anything and this will likely be quickly discovered by whoever hires them...if they even get that far
2) The university - they get a bad reputation because they produce unqualified graduates
3) The other graduates - they can't get jobs because the cheaters make them all look bad

It's a lose-lose.

Hell, if you're just using college to be able to show off a few good marks why not just forge a diploma and transcript and save yourself time and money?
Good luck getting away with cheating on most of the functional skills you listed, and if you are able to, you will be able to get through anything, because you are able to play the system. There are so many anti cheating measures taken against those things you listed if you are able to avoid those and still cheat, you will be able to play the system your whole life.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by someone447 View Post
Good luck getting away with cheating on most of the functional skills you listed, and if you are able to, you will be able to get through anything, because you are able to play the system. There are so many anti cheating measures taken against those things you listed if you are able to avoid those and still cheat, you will be able to play the system your whole life.
What are you talking about?
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:49 PM    (permalink
someone447
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haha, that first part is so awesomely true. And the rest is 100% correct in my opinion, sure if your doing a specific degree which directly relates to a career path afterwards then cheating probably wouldn't be brilliant. But even in saying this, as someone who has a job that directly relates to their degree i can honestly say that 98% of what is expected of me is learnt on the job, and doesnt relate to my university degree a great deal at all. I imagine its slightly different for a doctor for example but whatever.

But considering i spend most of my day here and the rest of the internet i may not be the best example
You are the best example. The majority of people will probably be doing something a lot like you are doing, just in a different field. Experience is where you learn, not from school.

It seems to me that Moses has a lot to learn about the real world. NO ONE is qualified for a job coming out of college, that is why(unless they have connections) have to pay their dues, learning on the job.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:52 PM    (permalink
7-11
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First of all, I have no idea what college you attend, but most colleges teach you a combination of functional skills (ie. accounting, researching, writing, experimenting, etc.) and knowledge. If you think either of those things is useless, you clearly don't understand what it takes to be successful. You can't just "look up" how to effectively design a car, or analyze a problem in a business and solve it.

Second of all, this is why cheating help nobody:
1) The person who cheats - they don't learn anything and this will likely be quickly discovered by whoever hires them...if they even get that far
2) The university - they get a bad reputation because they produce unqualified graduates
3) The other graduates - they can't get jobs because the cheaters make them all look bad

It's a lose-lose.

Hell, if you're just using college to be able to show off a few good marks why not just forge a diploma and transcript and save yourself time and money?
Everything you say is quite true, in theory anyway. Now i understand your a smart dude and i respect this ethics stuff but as someone who works fulltime as a financial adviser and and does university part-time at night just listen for a sec. Now this wokring while at uni thing is quite common for kids to do over here, you know why? Because employers don't want a fully qualified accountant or whatever that has no practical experience, because lets face it, they are essentially useless in the business world. Now from my sisters experience it is really really hard to break into the financial sector with a full degree and no practical experience, firms will just not do it as it just isnt financially liable these days.

Dunno if this even makes sense cause i'm coming off 4 hours sleep and i really cant be bothered to read what i just wrote but its just a little bit of something from a kid who is already in the business world whilst still at university
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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What are you talking about?
At least at the schools I have went to plagiarism is INCREDIBLY difficult to get away with. In fact, I would argue that you have to do more work to get past the plagiarism detectors in place than you would to just write the damn thing.

Tell me, as a boss, would you rather have someone who is "street smart" or "book smart?" The people who get things done are the ones who can play the system. Those are the people you want on your side, those are the people who will be wildly successful. Those are the people who will do the dirty work needed to be successful.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Everything you say is quite true, in theory anyway. Now i understand your a smart dude and i respect this ethics stuff but as someone who works fulltime as a financial adviser and and does university part-time at night just listen for a sec. Now this wokring while at uni thing is quite common for kids to do over here, you know why? Because employers don't want a fully qualified accountant or whatever that has no practical experience, because lets face it, they are essentially useless in the business world. Now from my sisters experience it is really really hard to break into the financial sector with a full degree and no practical experience, firms will just not do it as it just isnt financially liable these days.

Dunno if this even makes sense cause i'm coming off 4 hours sleep and i really cant be bothered to read what i just wrote but its just a little bit of something from a kid who is already in the business world whilst still at university
It makes perfect sense. I have no practical experience because I am not sure what I am going to do. As of now, I am planning on coaching football, so playing for Jerry Glanville is my practical experience. But I have no idea if I will still plan on doing that in three years when I graduate.

I also respect his ethics, but I would also like to point out, that people like you are the people that people like me will take advantage of.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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You are the best example. The majority of people will probably be doing something a lot like you are doing, just in a different field. Experience is where you learn, not from school.

It seems to me that Moses has a lot to learn about the real world. NO ONE is qualified for a job coming out of college, that is why(unless they have connections) have to pay their dues, learning on the job.
Right, because college is not an experience. Students don't learn anything about the real world. Just pointless historical dates. I would love to know what school you attended where that was the extent of your learning and none of it applied to the real world.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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At least at the schools I have went to plagiarism is INCREDIBLY difficult to get away with. In fact, I would argue that you have to do more work to get past the plagiarism detectors in place than you would to just write the damn thing.

Tell me, as a boss, would you rather have someone who is "street smart" or "book smart?" The people who get things done are the ones who can play the system. Those are the people you want on your side, those are the people who will be wildly successful. Those are the people who will do the dirty work needed to be successful.
hahaha

I don't believe you are actually writing this. Street smart? Book smart? Give me a break. That is garbage.

How is not going to class, ignoring your schoolwork, and just copying off somebody or whatever better than going to class, doing your schoolwork, and earning your grade? How does "playing the system" make you a better worker?
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 7-11 View Post
Everything you say is quite true, in theory anyway. Now i understand your a smart dude and i respect this ethics stuff but as someone who works fulltime as a financial adviser and and does university part-time at night just listen for a sec. Now this wokring while at uni thing is quite common for kids to do over here, you know why? Because employers don't want a fully qualified accountant or whatever that has no practical experience, because lets face it, they are essentially useless in the business world. Now from my sisters experience it is really really hard to break into the financial sector with a full degree and no practical experience, firms will just not do it as it just isnt financially liable these days.

Dunno if this even makes sense cause i'm coming off 4 hours sleep and i really cant be bothered to read what i just wrote but its just a little bit of something from a kid who is already in the business world whilst still at university
Right, so you need experience, knowledge, and skills...

Don't know what your point is.
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