NBA Discussion Thread - Page 1389

George Lippard · 02-18-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

idk, i still think 90% of the bron to ny hype is just the media looking for something to talk about since cleveland isn't LA or NY. But logically, how often would a guy leave a his hometown team that he won 2 MVPs (about to anyway) and just had the NBA's best record for 2 years in a row (so far) and went to the NBA title game twice (maybe). On top of that we all see just how close he is to his teammates, the owner has shown he can shell out the money to make the cavs win, the team around him is better than anywhere else that he can leave for. If he goes to NY or NJ he goes from 2 consecutive x MVP and the 2 consecutive x best record in the league to start from scratch. Totally makes no sense. His salary would be lower if he left as well (though the talk of him getting even more endorsement $ is the only gleam of hope in the whole thing). [/rant]

LeBron will make any non-playoff team a playoff team, but that isn't very difficult when you consider the amount of teams that make the playoffs every season.

If LBJ went to NY/NJ, they wouldn't be "real" contenders for at least 2 years. As you said, it is basically starting over. LeBron is a superstar, moving to a different state won't affect his endorsements. His marketing skeins are at a national level. He isn't like Michael Redd, doing local commercials.

None of it makes sense. Knicks fans must accept their mediocrity that will probably last for the rest of eternity.

aNYtitan · 02-18-2010, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

idk, i still think 90% of the bron to ny hype is just the media looking for something to talk about since cleveland isn't LA or NY. But logically, how often would a guy leave a his hometown team that he won 2 MVPs (about to anyway) and just had the NBA's best record for 2 years in a row (so far) and went to the NBA title game twice (maybe). On top of that we all see just how close he is to his teammates, the owner has shown he can shell out the money to make the cavs win, the team around him is better than anywhere else that he can leave for. If he goes to NY or NJ he goes from 2 consecutive x MVP and the 2 consecutive x best record in the league to start from scratch. Totally makes no sense. His salary would be lower if he left as well (though the talk of him getting even more endorsement $ is the only gleam of hope in the whole thing). It's not like anyone close to the situation is saying LeBron wants to leave either. Quite the contrary. [/rant]

Because, if the Cavs don't win this season, what else do they have left to try and improve? You came into the season looking to overcome the Magic. You got the big man to combat Dwight and you got Antwan to spread the floor. Where can you honestly go from here? Yes he got all the accolades their, but if you lose, I can see him just saying, I tried my best, I love this city and made basketball relevant again in Cleveland, and I'm going to try my luck somewhere else. Also, he ain't going to be starting from scratch. With the Knicks for example, they can go to him and be like, who would you want us to sign? Make a list. Its not like he is going to need to carry the team on his back, which I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

And if he wins, the chances he stays are increased, but he can still pull a Lou Alcindor (won a title in Milwaukee and then politely stated that he was leaving following it).

aNYtitan · 02-18-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

LeBron will make any non-playoff team a playoff team, but that isn't very difficult when you consider the amount of teams that make the playoffs every season.

If LBJ went to NY/NJ, they wouldn't be "real" contenders for at least 2 years. As you said, it is basically starting over. None of it makes sense. Knicks fans must accept their mediocrity that will probably last for the rest of eternity.

LeBron is a superstar, moving to a different state won't affect his endorsements. His marketing skeins are at a national level. He isn't like Michael Redd, doing local commercials.

You obviously assume that the Knicks are cursed in some way, and for the past decade+ yes it has been like a curse, but I don't see Donnie Walsh doing all this to completely strike out. I don't see it happening, cause imo I feel that two stars can be convinced that they can always contend for a title in the east if they just joined forces.

And in regards to marketing, you point out one big fact about going to NY. In Cleveland, he is a national star, even fans that don't follow basketball in the USA know his name. If he comes to NY, he can become an international star. At the moment, the only international star is Kobe and to a certain extent Yao. No other city in the USA, except for LA can do the same thing. The biggest lights, the brightest stage, the most attention possible

George Lippard · 02-18-2010, 11:13 PM

I originally said he was a international star but I didn't like the way it sounded, so I edited it.

He is an international star. On the scale of Yao? no.

aNYtitan · 02-18-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

I originally said he was a international star but I didn't like the way it sounded, so I edited it.

He is an international star. On the scale of Yao? no.

Your hopes and dreams will soon end in a pathetic nightmare. Don't build yourself up for something that won't happen. "The best fans in basketball" aren't entitled to anything. I don't intend for this to sound attacking, but you have no chance.

I fail to realize how we have no chance, I really do. You make it seem like we have so much cap space, but are Indiana or Minnesota, no marketability what so ever. And no, he is not an international star, below Kobe, below Yao. We know him so much because he is the best in the states, but I gurantee you that in Europe and Asia, diehard fans know who he is. Casual fans, no.

I really like though that you are dead set that the Knicks will obviously fail horribly, and that it will burn and crash, but I really want to know how you are so certain that it will happen.

keylime_5 · 02-18-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aNYtitan

Also, he ain't going to be starting from scratch. With the Knicks for example, they can go to him and be like, who would you want us to sign? Make a list. Its not like he is going to need to carry the team on his back, which I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

with what the Knicks have right now, he would be starting from scratch. Sure they could sign another big name (though they only have room for one max contract I think and another one just under max), but they don't have that guy yet and probably won't sign anyone until after they make a run at James. Big name guys probably won't take less money to play with LeBron either....freakin' Michael Redd wanted to be a Cav and LeBron's wingman and is from Ohio, but he couldn't say no to more money that the Bucks (the BUCKS, in a smaller market than Cleveland even) were offering.

As far as Kobe goes......it doesn't hurt but I think the fact that he is a worldwide star has more to do with the rings than it does with the location. Jordan was a worldwide star in Chicago, which doesn't have the market of NY or LA.

yo123 · 02-18-2010, 11:26 PM

This thread should have more Melo talk, after all he did top Lebron tonight.

aNYtitan · 02-18-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

with what the Knicks have right now, he would be starting from scratch. Sure they could sign another big name (though they only have room for one max contract I think and another one just under max), but they don't have that guy yet and probably won't sign anyone until after they make a run at James.

As far as Kobe goes......I think the fact that he is a worldwide star has more to do with the rings than it does with the location. Jordan was a worldwide star in Chicago, which doesn't have the market of NY or LA.

Chicago is still a big city.

They will make that run at James, and he will have be the first piece to fall, but its not like they won't contact anyone else. Bosh is up there, so is Amar'e and perhaps Dirk as well. It has to be a big, thats the one thing, unless Wade decides that he wants to partner and perhaps create the most talented duo that basketball has had in many many a year

senormysterioso · 02-18-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

This thread should have more Melo talk, after all he did top Lebron tonight.

Yes! I think for the next 1-2 weeks we should abstain from talking about the Knicks and Lebron and only talk about Melo and Kevin Durant

yo123 · 02-18-2010, 11:31 PM

Lets just rename the Knicks the New York 2 Max Contracts, and stop talking about them until the offseason when they (might) matter.

George Lippard · 02-18-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aNYtitan

I really like though that you are dead set that the Knicks will obviously fail horribly, and that it will burn and crash, but I really want to know how you are so certain that it will happen.

Your roster sucks, your management sucks, your fans suck, your city pretty much sucks (like Cleveland).

or in photo form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

This thread should have more Melo talk, after all he did top Lebron tonight.

not really.

yo123 · 02-18-2010, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

Your roster sucks, your management sucks, your fans suck, your city pretty much sucks (like Cleveland).

or in photo form.

not really.

Really? Melo didn't hit the game winning shot? Was I watching a different game?

LTgiants · 02-18-2010, 11:33 PM

So New york sucks cause their is a rail road in the projects,Spike Lee watches games, Donnie Walsh is the gm, and Larry Hughes was once on the roster that is genius logic right there George.

wordofi · 02-18-2010, 11:34 PM

New York won outright today. They will be significantly under the cap. The only thing they have to do is fire D'Antoni and get more size.

George Lippard · 02-18-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTgiants

So New york sucks cause their is a rail road in the projects,Spike Lee watches games, Donnie Walsh is the gm, and Larry Hughes was once on the roster that is genius logic right there George.

It is practically infallible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Really? Melo didn't hit the game winning shot? Was I watching a different game?

We're measuring individuals, not team performance.

The Nuggets topped the Cavs, LeBron topped Melo...easily.

yo123 · 02-18-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

It is practically infallible.

We're measuring individuals, not team performance.

The Nuggest topped the Cavs, LeBron topped Melo...easily.

Whether you win or lose the game is factored into the performance of your team's best player. I'm sorry that's just how it works. Especially when you make a last second clutch shot to put your team ahead.

I'm as big a Lebron fan as any, he's the best player in the league. But Carmelo beat him when it counted tonight.

Also what former poster are you?

Hurricanes25 · 02-18-2010, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

It is practically infallible.

We're measuring individuals, not team performance.

The Nuggets topped the Cavs, LeBron topped Melo...easily.

Melo's team won and LeBron's team lost. It's that simple. End of story.

LTgiants · 02-18-2010, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

It is practically infallible.

I have nothing else to say but you my friend are a ******

George Lippard · 02-18-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Whether you win or lose the game is factored into the performance of your team's best player. I'm sorry that's just how it works. Especially when you make a last second clutch shot to put your team ahead.

Not really. We're talking about individual performance, not team performance. Winning and losing is a team statistic, not an individual player statistic.

Clutch? Why is a point in the last 30 seconds more valuable than a point in the first minute? I don't get it.

aNYtitan · 02-18-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

Your roster sucks, your management sucks, your fans suck, your city pretty much sucks (like Cleveland).

or in photo form.

not really.

Let me just label you a Knicks hater, to the greatest extend (cause there already are plenty but they give some legitimate evidence as to why they aren't good other then "Well if the Knicks touched it, then it can't be good". Our roster sucks cause it was made to suck, the building blocks are Gallo, Chandler and Douglas, plus who we draft this year and if we resign anybody from the Boston trade. Oh, and also more cap space then any other team in perhaps the greatest free agent class the NBA has ever seen.

I just kinda find it funny that the knicks will blow this cause the "fans suck" (your opinion) and the "city sucks" (your opinion). You remind me of an ex poster who was a homer to such an extent, you are a hater to the greatest of extents.

Hurricanes25 · 02-18-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

Not really. We're talking about individual performance, not team performance. Winning and losing is a team statistic, not an individual player statistic.

Clutch? Why is a point in the last 30 seconds more valuable than a point in the first minute? I don't get it.

Individual performance means nothing when you lose.

yo123 · 02-18-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

Not really. We're talking about individual performance, not team performance. Winning and losing is a team statistic, not an individual player statistic.

Clutch doesn't exist. A point in the last 30 seconds is just as valuable as a point in the first 30 seconds of the game.

For the most part I agree with you. But when both players play fantastic the player who wins the game gets the tiebreaker.

And you've never played sports before have you. Some players collapse down the stretch in a tie game, some players thrive. Melo came through. Clutch exists, especially in basketball. That's why players like Jordan will always be better than players like Wilt.

George Lippard · 02-18-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

For the most part I agree with you. But when both players play fantastic the player who wins the game gets the tiebreaker.

And you've never played sports before have you. Some players collapse down the stretch in a tie game, some players thrive. Melo came through. Clutch exists, especially in basketball.

Why wasn't Billups' 2nd basket in the third quarter the one that won the game? It contributed equally to the final score that the last bucket did. Did it not?

George Lippard · 02-18-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurricanes25

Individual performance means nothing when you lose.

So if Lawson came off the bench, made one basket --- which was the game winner at the buzzer --- did he perform better than LeBron with his triple double?

Hurricanes25 · 02-18-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Lippard

So if Lawson came off the bench, made one basket --- which was the game winner at the buzzer --- did he perform better than LeBron with his triple double?

He may not have performed better but he won the game for his team.