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Old 07-09-2010, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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I had the exact same thoughts about the whole chalk throw routine, it would be awkward as hell to see him do that now.
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:59 AM    (permalink
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I think Wade should come out and do it the 1st game
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:01 AM    (permalink
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I didn't read the whole eleventy gazillion pages from last night, but I do find it somewhat surprising that people are blasting the guy for wanting to win championships.

1. There's no "easy" way to win championships, so that argument is ******* moronic. At the end of the day, there are still some good teams who could knock Miami off.

2. Athletes who take more money instead of the opportunity to win championships generally get lambasted by everyone. Now, a guy leaves a lot of money on the table to try to win championships and he gets blasted? Tell me, what the **** should a player do?

3. People act like James ****** Cleveland. That's beyond idiotic. They had seven ************* years to get him help. How can you look LeBron in the face and say, "yeah, we'll build a championship-caliber team around you in the next couple years,"? YOU HAD SEVEN ******* YEARS TO DO IT. All they did was continually surround him with **** players and you want to blame the guy for wanting to play with a top-5 player and a top-20 player?

4. Dan Gilbert is a ******* tool. That was the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen out of an owner. Also, do you really think you're going to win a title before LBJ? Really? With what players? Boobie Gibson? Antawn Jamison? Anderson ******* Varejao? Gee, I can't imagine why LeBron would rather play with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh when he could play with these studs.

5. If it ***** over the state of Ohio, it is good for the world. Cleveland fans are just bitter because their team returns to being irrelevant.

No, I don't watch basketball like the regulars in here do and most people will probably read my post (Ha, I got you to read this whole thing!) and think, "what a ******* idiot", but I really can't fault LeBron for wanting to win.
I don't think that's a fair assessment. The way it works in Ohio is you're either a diehard Cleveland fan with a few Cinci fans in their respective sports and then the rest are people who hate how our teams don't accomplish anything. So I don't see how it "****** over the state of Ohio" is good for anyone else. Granted Cavs management is godawful (I'm a Knicks fan so no bias involved) and Dan Gilbert is just a moron. I frankly don't give a **** what your opinion of the Cavs is, but it's really unnecessary to wish sports hell on a state just because of your own personal issues with what I'm guessing are obnoxious OSU fans.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:17 AM    (permalink
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So I don't see how it "****** over the state of Ohio" is good for anyone else.
If it pisses off a large majority of Ohioans, it benefits the world.

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Granted Cavs management is godawful (I'm a Knicks fan so no bias involved) and Dan Gilbert is just a moron.
Well, yes.

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I frankly don't give a **** what your opinion of the Cavs is, but it's really unnecessary to wish sports hell on a state just because of your own personal issues with what I'm guessing are obnoxious OSU fans.
It's not just OSU fans. The state sucks. Let's not beat around the bush. The state ******* sucks. It does not deserve to be its own state. It offers nothing. The fact that OSU is in that state is a bonus for my hatred.

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Old 07-09-2010, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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They should have pulled the trigger on this. But of course, hingsight is 20/20. I know my friends that are Cavs fants liked the deal they got better than Amare.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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thank you NBA discussion thread, for keeping me entertained for an hour at work, wow. now here's my 2 pennies:

-you expect me to be a bitter ass Nets fan here? well, you're wrong. I convinced myself like a year ago, we werent getting him. Got hyped up with news and rumors that the Nets were back in it a few weeks ago, my i'm not too crushed. Don't really care where he went, just didn't want the Knicks (solely for the people i've seen wearing Lebron knicks jerseys and the stores near me selling them, that's it and all I cared about). The Nets are still...well the Nets. we haven't been relevant since J-Kidd was throwing alley-oops to RJ and K-Mart and teams feared our fast break while Kittles and Lucious Harris canned 3's, scalabrine was our token ginger. and come finals time, Shaq, the Admiral and timmy just **** all over Aaron Williams, Jason Collins and Todd MacCulloch (how's that for name dropping, eh?)
Forenci and I agreed, our teams are stuck in mediocrity for now, knowing Amar'e and travis ******* outlaw are not the answers. more on the Nets to come

- Lebron going to the heat? It's deadly with him and Wade, obvi. It's no secret I'm not a Bosh fan and haven't been since he came into the league. I feel he's soft and over-rated, that hasn't changed, and I believe this Heat team needs some bigs, badly. But still, a combo of Wade and LBJ is insane and virtually unstoppable. Dwight Howard will drop 50 on them, but Wade and LBJ will laugh and each drop 30+.

- ok, the Nets again. meh. We're not winning now guys, playoffs are possible, but we're not making any real noise, so why try and spend on Tyrus Thomas? I'm ok with Outlaw...ok, for now. But Tyrus? come on, spend that money elsewhere. Give our franchise Bropez a lifetime extension, ship Courtney Lee and take on a big and possibly expiring (or 2 year even) contract for a vet big to mentor Favors and start for now and maybe a pick. Tyrus? If we get him, it better only be 2-3 years, MAX. we're spending money for the sake of spending. Save it and make a hail mary push for Melo next year or even Caron. Right now,the Nets are stuck in mediocrity, with our saviors and hopeful studs going into their 3rd and 1st years...and maybe 2nd with T-Will, who's progressing magnificantly.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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To me, I don't care that he chose the Heat and wanted to team up with his friends to make a super team. Good for him. I don't really care if it looks like he's taking the easy way out.

What I, and probably most fans, thought was ridiculous was this whole show he put on. Not just The Decision, but the whole atmosphere surrounding his decision. He could have just came out Thursday morning, signed his papers in Miami or whereever, and done a couple interviews. No, he had to put on this whole act, pretend like it was some ridiculously hard decision, refer to himself in the 3rd person, etc.

The part that got me was yea, ok ditching the city of Cleveland, not a big deal. You grew up there, played your entire career there so far, and if it was me I couldn't see leaving. But to each his own. But the fact that he strung Cleveland along, after all they've done for him the past 7 years, and he doesn't even have the courtesy/maturity to pick up a phone to tell the team he's not coming back? This team, his hometown team, that's helped him build his career, was lamented to being just another city that could possibly win the Lebron sweepstakes. It just shows how immature and egotistical Lebron is. It was just such a ****** way to go about things.

And yes I realize BSPN had a lot to do with it, but Lebron wanted to have this huge show, Lebron acted like a douche during the interviews referring to himself in 3rd person, Lebron decided not to act mature about the whole process. That's the thing that annoys me the most about the whole thing. I really didn't care where he went.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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South Beach > Cleveland



Everyone is cool with the Yankees buying up all stars in baseball. Anything can happen in sports, Wade is just one fall away from missing 20 games in a season. Lets not forget Kobe nearly bitched his way out of LA till he got Pau and eventually Artest.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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I dont think anyone can have a legitimate arguement against these guys wanting to play together or the Heat signing them. I think the problem most people have is how Lebron made his choice. He should have let the Cavaliers know his choice, he should have signed with Miami at home or in Miami and done some interviews. Instead he acted like a dick and strung it out for as long as he could and done it in a one hour special.

"Hi, i'm joining Miami"-there ya go. 2 seconds is all it could have taken
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
South Beach > Cleveland



Everyone is cool with the Yankees buying up all stars in baseball. Anything can happen in sports, Wade is just one fall away from missing 20 games in a season. Lets not forget Kobe nearly bitched his way out of LA till he got Pau and eventually Artest.
Pretty sure everyone hates the Yankees for doing this.

But I don't necessarily disagree with your assertion that South Beach > Cleveland. I mean, it's ******* Cleveland.

Plus, that video is awesome. COME SEE OUR 2 BUILDINGS!!!
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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someone said Chris Bosh was an elite player. lol.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Pretty sure everyone hates the Yankees for doing this.

But I don't necessarily disagree with your assertion that South Beach > Cleveland. I mean, it's ******* Cleveland.

Plus, that video is awesome. COME SEE OUR 2 BUILDINGS!!!
Everyone hates it but they still do it. It creates a lot more drama and your typical David vs Goliath. The Yankees still manage to F it up a lot of years. How much better is this team than the Celtics? If Chalmers stays mediocre i could see Rondo raping him in the playoffs. The C's are still stacked with a good stable of 6'10+ guys
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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I dont think anyone can have a legitimate arguement against these guys wanting to play together or the Heat signing them. I think the problem most people have is how Lebron made his choice. He should have let the Cavaliers know his choice, he should have signed with Miami at home or in Miami and done some interviews. Instead he acted like a dick and strung it out for as long as he could and done it in a one hour special.

"Hi, i'm joining Miami"-there ya go. 2 seconds is all it could have taken
Reminded me of Mayor Giuliani breaking up with his wife at a press conference.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Why do people keep saying it's Dwayne Wade's team? Lebron James is the best player on that team. Who cares if Wade's been there for longer? It's a completely new roster.
Because, injuries aside, Dwayne Wade is better than Lebron James, and has been for his entire career.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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I looked at the statistical effect the merger "big 3" in Boston had on each individual player. Paul Pierce's PPG went down by 4, but his FG% shot up exponentially. Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen's points went down about the same amount, but their FG% stayed about the same. Garnett's rebounds went down too. I expect something similar, but if anything I think Bosh and Wade's numbers will be effected the most. I think, at the end of the day, LeBron James will put up monster stats with deadly efficiency. He may lose four points like Pierce did, but his FG% and with his passing vision and ability his assists will be mind-blowing.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Because, injuries aside, Dwayne Wade is better than Lebron James, and has been for his entire career.

In what universe? What does he do better? Has he done more with less?

No, no, no, no and no.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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If it pisses off a large majority of Ohioans, it benefits the world.



Well, yes.



It's not just OSU fans. The state sucks. Let's not beat around the bush. The state ******* sucks. It does not deserve to be its own state. It offers nothing. The fact that OSU is in that state is a bonus for my hatred.
I agree with this. Before "The Decision," Cleveland and Akron PD were prepared for violence/rioting/etc. and even had extra security up at James' house. After the decision was announced, everybody just went home, depressed. No rioting, no anger. That city has been stomach punched so many times that they just roll with it.

Maybe Lebron's decisions will make his fellow Ohioans finally think, "what the hell am I still doing in this godforsaken place?" I mean seriously. Why the **** would ANYONE stay there?

I'm fully, entirely, and completely convinced that Lebron had Jesus Shuttlesworth/Julius Peppers syndrome, and wanted to get as far away from there as possible.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Damnit. The Heat are geniuses for turning Michael Beasley into Mike Miller. Sure you have to eat your pride and admit that you made an epic fail in drafting him when you could have had your PG of the future in Russell Westbrook or another explosive scorer in Mayo, but you have to realize that Beasley having to sit behind the big 3, he'd be worse than a cancer. I mean the guy has such low self esteem on the court I can't even imagine what he'd do the first time LeBron would yell at him for missing a jump shot. Mike Miller in return is the ultimate role player and teammate. He is also capable of playing a little bit of point along with Wade and LeBron. The possibilities are endless. If they can get Kurt Thomas or Brad Miller to sign the min and play center, they will be ridiculous. Hell Dexter Pittman in spot up minutes could do some things. Not a big Varnado fan but we'll see what he has. Of the rookies DaSean Butler could turn into a decent contributor.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I almost think they should make LeBron James the PG, ala Magic Johnson and have this lineup:

PG - LeBron James
SG - Dwyane Wade
SF - Mike Miller
PF - Chris Bosh
C - *insert defensive center here*

If they got someone like who could bang inside they would be versatile and fast, but they wouldn't be small by any stretch of the imagination. But I agree with ST21, in effect they swapped Michael Beasely for Mike Miller and made their supporting cast much better already.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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In what universe? What does he do better? Has he done more with less?

No, no, no, no and no.


Shaq was, what, three years younger? Other than that, the Heat weren't exactly a stacked team. He had one of the best Finals performances EVER.

Shiv, you are, like, the complete opposite when ranking players in football and basketball. You're smart enough to see past the Peyton Manning hoopla. Basketball has intangibles, too. It's not just about who is the best physical specimen on the court.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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He had one of the best Finals performances EVER.
yeah, and getting phantom fouls and every call ever doesnt hurt, either.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Fun fact: Wade, Bosh, and James were a combined 4-16 against Boston last year. 3 of those wins were the Cavs.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Shaq was, what, three years younger? Other than that, the Heat weren't exactly a stacked team. He had one of the best Finals performances EVER.
Shaq averaged 24 points, 10 rebounds and was a big defensive presence in Miami. He was the alpha dog up until the 2nd year, in the NBA Finals. That is when D-Wade passed Shaq on the totem poll, but not before.

The Shaq that LeBron had was 38 years old, averaged 12 points and 6 rebounds. He was literally half the player he was when he was in Miami.

Secondly, LeBron James averages more points, scores them more efficiently, is a much better defender, much better rebounder, much better passer. LeBron James had one of the best post-season performances of all-time, twice, in the ECF against Detrot and Orlando. Unfortunately for him the Magic beat the Cavs team, even with LeBron going off for 40/10/8 during that series. What has Wade done in recent years with the Heat? Exactly..

I do not expect such unsubstantiated arguments from you YFS.

As for my "opposite" views on Basketball/Football. That isn't true. One of the reasons I supported Brady was the fact that once Brady had Manning's weapons he put up better statistics. It wasn't that he couldn't, it was that the situation he was in didn't allow for it and he still had more success team-wise. It was never about "intangibles" or some feel good buzz-word that doesn't mean anything. There was a sound, thought out reason why I said what I said.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Something to back up what Prock's saying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Simmons
We've also never seen two perimeter superstar alpha dogs coexist for an NBA title -- not even when Jerry West and Elgin Baylor teamed up with Wilt Chamberlain against the aging Celtics in 1969. LeBron would have to accept becoming Mega-Pippen to Wade's Jordan. (Yeah, right.) Even during the final quarter of the 2008 gold-medal game, when everyone on the American team was staring at each other wondering who was going to step up against a red-hot Spain team, there were a few minutes of tentative, "I don't want to step on anyone's toes here" basketball before Kobe said, "Screw it, get out of my way" and took over the key portion of the game.


Well, at some point, Wade and LeBron will have one of those 2008 Spain moments … but what happens if both guys say, "Screw it, get out of my way"? You need to have a special type of mentality to want that moment; that's why Scottie Pippen melted down in that 1994 Bulls-Knicks playoff game, because Phil Jackson had spent that entire year building him up and making him think, "We can win without Jordan, you're just as good, we can DO THIS," then designed the biggest play of the season for someone else. It was a slap in the face. Pippen reacted terribly, but still, don't you want him to be pissed there? Isn't that what being an alpha dog is all about? Don't you need a special level of swagger and confidence to carry that load every night? And once you reach that level, doesn't it become impossible to share the spotlight with someone else? Of course …


12. Maybe LeBron knows that he isn't wired that way.


Maybe he wants to be an unselfish creator like Magic or a do-it-all wingman like Pippen. Maybe he has too much Doctor J in him, as I theorized after Game 6. Maybe he believes that if Wade carries the crunch-time load, it will free LeBron to do LeBron things and average a triple-double every game without having that burden of "I've gotta create every shot for us in the final four minutes." Maybe he thinks it's his best chance to win. And if so …


13. I think it's a cop-out. Any super-competitive person would rather beat Dwyane Wade than play with him. Don't you want to find the Ali to your Frazier and have that rival pull the greatness out of you? That's why I'm holding out hope that LeBron signs with New York or Chicago (or stays in Cleveland), because he'd be saying, "Fine. Kobe, Dwight and Melo all have their teams. Wade and Bosh have their team. The Celtics are still there. Durant's team is coming. I'm gonna go out and build MY team, and I'm kicking all their asses." That's what Jordan would have done. Hell, that's what Kobe would have done.


In May, after the Cavs were ousted in the conference semifinals, I wrote that LeBron was facing one of the greatest sports decisions ever: "winning (Chicago), loyalty (Cleveland) or a chance at immortality (New York)."


I never thought he would pick "HELP!"

LeBron joining Wade after his 2010 playoffs flameout, in my opinion, is like Conan O'Brien getting kicked in the teeth by NBC, then overreacting and forming a late-night version of "The View" with Chris Rock, Adam Carolla and Jeffrey Ross over trying to create his own show somewhere else. (Note to Carolla and Ross: Don't get excited, it's only a hypothetical.) Total cop-out. The move of someone who, deep down, doesn't totally trust his own talents any more. And maybe he doesn't.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/100708
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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I'm fully, entirely, and completely convinced that Lebron had Jesus Shuttlesworth/Julius Peppers syndrome, and wanted to get as far away from there as possible.
That's not really true. He was trying to recruit Bosh to do a S&T to come with him and had he, he would of still been in Cleveland. No way he does that if he's trying to get out of town in any shape or form. I don't think it's as clear cut and dry as you make it out to be in that regards.



and Wade is not a better player then Lebron, especially not his entire career, that's outlandish.
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