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View Poll Results: Who will win the NBA Championship in 2013?
Miami Heat 15 26.79%
Miami Heat 3 5.36%
Miami Heat 31 55.36%
Miami Heat 6 10.71%
Miami Heat 1 1.79%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-09-2010, 04:04 PM    (permalink
soybean
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For all those that are hoping Pat Riley comes back and coaches... all i have to say is Pat Riley is ridiculously overrated.

For all the **** Phil Jackson gets for always having the best players, the same could be said for Riley's rings and yet Phil still has the better track record.

Now ill backtrack a little and say in the beginning of his career he was the next big thing but it's been over two decades since he put up a decent coaching performance.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I think him going to the Heat actually shows he wants to win, intead of individual ach. Because I don't see a way him DWade and Bosh putting up the same numbers as they normally did, unless they rotate one player each time to play with the 2nd unit while the others rest.

But on another note, I would love the Nuggets toget Al Jefferson. I would expect teams would love to get K-Marts expirer for next years FA's
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP View Post
I don't really think those situations are comparable. Favre the entire time could have retired. The Packers had prepared for him retiring for a while and had someone ready in the wings. They were ready to move on. LeBron gave the Cavs every hint during the season that he'd be back, up until free agency started and he shut contact down completely. Now obviously LeBron couldn't say he was gonna leave during the season because that would obviously cause a rift between the team and maybe he didn't even know yet, but I would expect a superstar with his power to really force his hand in the Amare deal, he really should have made it clear that he needed a star with him or that might jeopardize his future with the team. For the record he was on board with the Jamison deal, and Jamison was an Allstar caliber forward. The thing is that LeBron knew that leaving Cleveland and his hometown essentially would kill the franchise. Now he has no obligation to the franchise or the city but still he waited so that the Cavs had zero shot at using their 13 mil of cap even if they were able to convince someone to come. I still believe that bigger than playing with Wade or Bosh, his biggest reason for choosing the Heat is location. I feel like New York and Chicago were to close for him. He wanted to get as far away from Ohio as possible.
Ultimately it mattered what happened in the post season. The team came up way short not even making the conference finals. Lebron sat there with shattered hopes and had to know Cleveland just was not going to happen. Does anyone think if Lebron came out right away and said im going to Miami there would not be a big uproar still?
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by prock View Post
It doesn't matter where he went, he deserted his home town team.

What is your point with Favre? Of course he is a douche.
He is from Akron not Cleveland, for all we know he could of liked the Reds and Bengals more than he like the browns and indians.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by zachsaints52 View Post
I think him going to the Heat actually shows he wants to win, intead of individual ach. Because I don't see a way him DWade and Bosh putting up the same numbers as they normally did, unless they rotate one player each time to play with the 2nd unit while the others rest.

I looked it up and each of Pierce, Garnett and Allen's PPG went down by 4-6 points, but they scored more efficiently and defensively they played better. (the last one is just my opinion)

I expect something like such:

LeBron - 24 points, 9 assists, 9 rebounds
D-Wade - 22 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds
Chris Bosh - 18 points, 2 assists, 10 rebounds

It will be bad for fantasy owners, but if they win 70 games and an NBA title I think they will be respected more not less. Also I expect LeBron and D-Wade to play suffocating defense; Bosh isn't known for his defense, but I do think playing for a playoff contender will lead to more intensity and effort by default.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Where were you in the 2007 series against the Pistons? Leading a pathetic, bottom of the barrel team to the NBA Finals. The 2008 series against the Magic, one of the great in the history of the NBA, only to lose because the rest of your team sucks. He has been one of the most competitive, most mentally tough player in the league. He couldn't do it on his own. No one can.
I fail to see how pointing out his various playoff exits highlights his competitiveness and mentality. I said he realized he could never lead a team to a title. He couldn't do it with Cleveland and with Miami he never will. He had the opportunity to go somewhere else and lead a team to a title, instead he chose to play second fiddle (or i guess 1b/1c) in Miami.

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They played up to his desire to be famous and wealthy. NY and NJ's entire pitch was to make him a "billionaire" while he plays with two mediocre rosters, basically Cleveland with a better night life and more fans. Chicago was like Miami in a way, but without LeBron's friends or the master Pat Riley at the helm the Bulls lost the tie-breaker.
I agree that they played with his desire to be famous and wealthy, but they also played up his desire to lead a team to a championship and be a legend. If he goes to any team besides the heat and wins titles they would of been his titles. It's not a coincidence that he went to the one place where he wouldn't be the guy. He experienced it in Cleveland for 7 years and now he wants no part of it. He wants to be a sidekick, not the hero.

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He has to say that, until he proves to the Heat fans/organization through his play that he is the guy. Make no mistake, if he plays in Miami like he did in Cleveland, it will be his team, his town in no time.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...the-transcript

Jim Gray:The three of you will share now the spotlight and the limelight. And in many ways you're going to Dwyane Wade's team. He's been in Miami. He's won a championship. How do you think you'll be able to fit in and possibly not be the headliner all the time?

LBJ: For me it's not about sharing. You know, it's about everybody having their own spotlight and then just doing what's best for the team.

You know, at this point D Wade, he's the unselfish guy here. To be able to have Chris Bosh and then LeBron James, to welcome us to his team, it's not about an individual here. Because if that was the case, D Wade wouldn't have asked us to join him, or we wouldn't have asked him if it was okay to come down there. It's not about individuals. It's about a team, and that's what this game is about.

Read that and tell me it's not Wade's team and town
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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The Heat are trying to sign Raja Bell. Defense, shooting, versatility, all things you need in a bench. Do not doubt that Pat Riley will work his magic and build an average-above average supporting cast. Mario Chalmers, Mike Miller, Raja Bell would be a great start.
NOOOO Raja Bell is our's!
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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And that's why the NBA is ******* stupid. Celtics or Lakers 50% of the time. It is so ***.

My gripe with LeBron isn't that he left the Cavs. He was a free agent, he can go where ever. My gripe with LeBron is that he ******* had some ******** egotistical HOUR LONG special to tell people where he signing. My gripe is that he is copping out and going to Miami to play with two other stars and forming a super team, rather than going to his own team so he could beat that super team. That is what the greatest player of all time would do.


Like who? .....
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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I'll be shocked if those 3 average a combined 64 points a game. I think 27, 25, 20ish is more likely.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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True, the Celtics slow, defensive style and pace was a factor I did not consider. You might very well be right that my 4-6 point downgrade was too conservative an estimate.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
Ultimately it mattered what happened in the post season. The team came up way short not even making the conference finals. Lebron sat there with shattered hopes and had to know Cleveland just was not going to happen. Does anyone think if Lebron came out right away and said im going to Miami there would not be a big uproar still?
I just think he went about it wrong. The timing really wasn't that bad. He only waited a week. What was bad was how he had this whole special thing, and rumors would constantly be swirling of different teams. I think one of his biggest mistakes was not visiting teams. Visiting teams, looking at their facility, maybe even looking at some real estate is part of free agency. He however hosted and had fly in all his potential suitors into Cleveland. That's kind of harsh. He was almost asking the media to document these big time exec's who will take LeBron away from your city. I think if he flew down to Miami, had a meeting, and we later read reports that he had signed, no one would have a problem with it. He however approached this thing entirely wrong, and approached it like he's a star bigger than the sport. I mean this is the Big 3. I think it would have been the right gesture to at least invite Wade and Bosh to his special. To be honest they should have all announced together as the big 3 that they were signing. Instead LeBron had to make this into a big media circus around him. He also couldn't just hold a press conference. Instead he had to have his charity kids there in the background to make him look like a humanitarian, and then he had to get Jim Grey to interview him. The whole way he handled free agency had to be inviting to nothing but criticism. His decision is perfectly fine. But he handled this whole situation like crap.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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If you take out "THE DECISION" then he handled himself perfectly. Last night was a mistake, whether you like his decision (as I do) or not.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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I see the big 3 stats like this....
(Points,Rebounds, Assists)
LeBron: 26 8 7
Wade: 27 5 4
Bosh: 19 11 3
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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If you take out "THE DECISION" then he handled himself perfectly. Last night was a mistake, whether you like his decision (as I do) or not.
how did he handle himself perfectly? He made everyone come cater to him in Cleveland. Even the MFing Clippers. Imagine having to make roundtrips to Cleveland when you had no chance at all in landing him.

He could have AT LEAST narrowed his choices down earlier as to not waste anyone else's time and effort.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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I was also surprised to hear him say that he made his decision the morning of the "decision" and had changed his mind from just the day before. So he basically gave himself a deadline. Doesn't sound like the most thorough and intelligent way of deciding your future. I mean this is his prime. At the end of this 5, maybe 6 year contract if he physically has issues with his knees, back, or something, he might not even be a top 3 player anymore. I'd hope that your decision would be more than just a spur of the moment thing, but by giving himself a deadline and setting up a special before he even knew what he wanted, sounds pretty crazy.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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I hate hearing "it proves he cant win one by himself". No **** he has proved that for 7 years. Nobody can win one by themselves.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Nets you've just been saved from making another horrible decision:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5367718

Bobcats re-sign Tyrus Thomas. 5 years/40 million. The Nets apparently offered the same deal or close to it, and was front loaded with the first year's salary that would have been 12 mil. I'm still amazed how this guy can get 9 mil a year for 5 years. Good for him for cashing in. I guess just like Kwame Brown he'll get money for his draft place.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Where were you in the 2007 series against the Pistons? Leading a pathetic, bottom of the barrel team to the NBA Finals. The 2008 series against the Magic, one of the great in the history of the NBA, only to lose because the rest of your team sucks. He has been one of the most competitive, most mentally tough player in the league. He couldn't do it on his own. No one can.
You keep bringing the 2007 Detroit series up. In 2007, Detroit was the top seed of the East with a lousy 53 wins. Cleveland was the #2 seed with 50 wins. They were a crappy team who beat a slightly less crappy team and proceeded to get swept out of the Finals by a real team.

Here's the entire East Conference seedings:
  1. Detroit Pistons (53 wins, clinched Central division)
  2. Cleveland Cavaliers (50 wins, best record in the conference outside the division winners)
  3. Toronto Raptors (47 wins, clinched Atlantic division)
  4. Miami Heat (44 wins, clinched Southeast division)
  5. Chicago Bulls (49 wins)
  6. New Jersey Nets (41 wins, 4-0 against Washington)
  7. Washington Wizards (41 wins, 0–4 against New Jersey)
  8. Orlando Magic (40 wins)
He played an absolutely amazing fourth quarter and overtime against Detroit, sure. But it's not like he was conquering a juggernaut, either. Like I said, he was on a crappy team and upset a slightly less crappy team.

Last edited by yourfavestoner : 07-09-2010 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
You keep bringing the 2007 Detroit series up. In 2007, Detroit was the top seed of the East with a lousy 53 wins. Cleveland was the #2 seed with 50 wins. They were a crappy team who beat a slightly less crappy team and proceeded to get swept out of the Finals by a real team.

Here's the entire East Conference seedings:
  1. Detroit Pistons (53 wins, clinched Central division)
  2. Cleveland Cavaliers (50 wins, best record in the conference outside the division winners)
  3. Toronto Raptors (47 wins, clinched Atlantic division)
  4. Miami Heat (44 wins, clinched Southeast division)
  5. Chicago Bulls (49 wins)
  6. New Jersey Nets (41 wins, 4-0 against Washington)
  7. Washington Wizards (41 wins, 04 against New Jersey)
  8. Orlando Magic (40 wins)
He played an absolutely amazing fourth quarter and overtime against Detroit, sure. But it's not like he was conquering a juggernaut by himself, either. Like I said, he was on a crappy team and upset a slightly less crappy team.
The Wizards and Nets were in the playoffs, there shall be no more mention of 2007
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

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Old 07-09-2010, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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2007 Cleveland Cavaliers lineup

PG - Larry Hughes
SG - Sasha Pavlovic
SF - LeBron James
PF - Drew Gooden
C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Bench of Boobie Gibson, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow

I don't care how good/bad Detroit was, there is no way that team had any business being in the NBA finals. It was really a feat performed single-handily. They were soundly beaten by a team in the NBA finals: Parker, Ginobolli, Duncan and a solid supporting cast. Let's not pretend though as if people were not in awe at what LeBron accomplished in the ECF that year and the next with a team that wouldn't sniff the playoffs without him.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
2007 Cleveland Cavaliers lineup

PG - Larry Hughes
SG - Sasha Pavlovic
SF - LeBron James
PF - Drew Gooden
C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Bench of Boobie Gibson, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow

I don't care how good/bad Detroit was, there is no way that team had any business being in the NBA finals. It was really a feat performed single-handily. They were soundly beaten by a team in the NBA finals: Parker, Ginobolli, Duncan and a solid supporting cast. Let's not pretend though as if people were not in awe at what LeBron accomplished in the ECF that year and the next with a team that wouldn't sniff the playoffs without him.
I thought we were going to have a good discussion bro, what happened?
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by soybean View Post
how did he handle himself perfectly? He made everyone come cater to him in Cleveland. Even the MFing Clippers. Imagine having to make roundtrips to Cleveland when you had no chance at all in landing him.

He could have AT LEAST narrowed his choices down earlier as to not waste anyone else's time and effort.
If the Clippers thought they had a shot, they're dumber than I thought.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
2007 Cleveland Cavaliers lineup

PG - Larry Hughes
SG - Sasha Pavlovic
SF - LeBron James
PF - Drew Gooden
C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Bench of Boobie Gibson, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow

I don't care how good/bad Detroit was, there is no way that team had any business being in the NBA finals. It was really a feat performed single-handily. They were soundly beaten by a team in the NBA finals: Parker, Ginobolli, Duncan and a solid supporting cast. Let's not pretend though as if people were not in awe at what LeBron accomplished in the ECF that year and the next with a team that wouldn't sniff the playoffs without him.
No team from the East had any business being in the NBA Finals. One of them had to go by default.

And, as his team got better (not a ton, but still better) he's fallen further from the Finals every time.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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I look forward to the new "Big Three," imploding from ego nonsense. Look Lebron made his choice, I didn't want him in Chicago, I was rooting for him to be the hometown hero and return to Cleveland. But where he chose was not thoroughly thought out.
I understand it sounds easy and great to be like Boston and get three superstars and win an NBA championship. It also sounds great to grab your buddies go out to the bar and pick up chicks. You each have a role then one guy free lances and the **** hits the fan. The three players Boston received were three ring hungry vets, who would do almost anything to win a couple rings, as well as three very complimenting styles. In the Miami three, you have two very similar styles and ball dependency, and a post presence who also likes to have his possessions. These guys are still young. They haven't suffered in dead beat markets with no success. They have all been on see-saw teams that bounce back and forth between good and bad. So I hope Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are ready for the diminishing touches, role, and spotlight since it won't be about them individually anymore, but about their "Big Three."
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