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Old 11-22-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
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Teaming up with them is no different than Kobe playing with Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol, the Boston big 4, etc. Can we move past this "taking the easy way out" canard?
Except that Kobe has never left the Lakers, and it's not his fault they acquired a bunch of talented players via trade. And the Boston big 4 was put together through trades and the draft as well.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Different means, same result.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Teaming up with them is no different than Kobe playing with Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol, the Boston big 4, etc. Can we move past this "taking the easy way out" canard?
Absolutely not...how can this not be considered the easy way. Staying in Cleveland woul be the "noble" way...going to Miami is the "easy" way(to a championship)
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Different means, same result.
Not.......really.....
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Teaming up with them is no different than Kobe playing with Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol, the Boston big 4, etc. Can we move past this "taking the easy way out" canard?
There are plenty of ways it is different.

Kobe was there first and didn't join up with anyone.

Both of those guys were traded for.

Why is Kobe even relevant to this discussion...

Lebron is the one talking about the easy way out, it's not even the fans. I don't know him and I suspect few do, but it definitely appears that his psyche is caught up in all this still, making it a legitimate talking point.

Literally every sound byte that comes out of Lebron's mouth is some new way of justifying his decision, or trying to get back in the good graces of a public that really does seem to have endless wrath to spew in his direction. It is getting sad.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Except that Kobe has never left the Lakers, and it's not his fault they acquired a bunch of talented players via trade. And the Boston big 4 was put together through trades and the draft as well.
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Absolutely not...how can this not be considered the easy way. Staying in Cleveland woul be the "noble" way...going to Miami is the "easy" way(to a championship)
**** the noble way. Every athlete should have the mentality that it is championships or bust and in the NBA that means forming a nucleus of three great players and three or four solid role players. Who gives a **** how the team was assembled? Same results. They weren't taking the easy way they were evening the playing field with Boston and LA, who already had "super" teams.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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I would think guys would want to play on a team where they would actually fit, and thus be a better championship contender. Rondo/KG/Allen/Pierce fit together perfectly fine which is why they immediately meshed, and Kobe/Gasol are a great fit in the triangle.

I still think the best thing would have been for LeBron to have gone to New York so that Wade/LeBron/Rose all were the main ball handlers on their teams, but whatever.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all there. I think they aren't the best or most natural fit together. I do think a lot of the problems can be solved when they get Miller back and if they can get a defensive center, a Kendrick Perkins type next year. James will eventually develop a post game, just like he improved as a free throw shooter and defender in previous seasons.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't Kobe's fault, Memphis gave away Pau Gasol to him. When KG left Minnesota, he didn't put on a whole ****load, **** of a show and say that he was leaving Minnesota, without telling them. That's what does it for me.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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Two things:

I definitely agree that they weren't the most natural fit and LeBron went about it the wrong way. But my point remains it was never, ever going to be easy. Even at their theoretical best the Lakers were still probably the better team and likewise with Boston.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Point to the other top 10 players on those teams.

KG was top 10 at the time of the trade. Allen and Pierce were very good players, not superstars. Rondo was nothing at that time.

Pau wasn't considered top 10 at the time of the trade. He's since worked his way into the top 10. Odom? Seriously?

All three of Miami's guys were considered top 10 when they did it. LeBron and Wade are arguably the 2 best players in the league, and Bosh was considered near the bottom of the top 10 after a dominant year. Plus, they actively went out and picked each other. Kobe never said "trade me to Cleveland so I can play with LeBron." Or anything like that. Even when he was really wanting out of LA, the most talked about destination was Chicago. There, he'd have a solid team of good young players, but it would still very clearly be his team and nothing close to an "easy way."

Honestly, if you can't see the difference between a team going out and trading young players+picks for established veteran stars or a team going out and trading for a complementary piece to their aging superstar to get him some rings, and three superstars in their prime choosing to play together on a dominant superteam, I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all there. I think they aren't the best or most natural fit together. I do think a lot of the problems can be solved when they get Miller back and if they can get a defensive center, a Kendrick Perkins type next year. James will eventually develop a post game, just like he improved as a free throw shooter and defender in previous seasons.
People have said that about LeBron since he was 20.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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People have said that about LeBron since he was 20.
Has he or has he not greatly improved as a free throw shooter and a defender when people questioned him about it? Yes. Have other great players developed their post game well into their careers? Absolutely.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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these teams were not created equal. Boston sent the 5th overall pick for Ray Allen and some nice dudes to Minnesota for KG. And they bought Rondo's rights after PHX drafted him.
LA traded SHAQUILLE O'FREAKING'NEAL in his PRIME(ish) to MIA for Odom, who rotted away with Kobe on those bad teams, acquired Fisher via some craziness, and tricked one of the worst GM's in the league to trading him Pau Gasol for KWAME BROWN, a bonafide scrub, and some draft picks. It was never not Kobe's team. (Read that in a Stephen A. Smith voice).
This is not the same as taking your talents to south beach with two other dudes who took less money to create a "super-team".
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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How many times do I have to point out that Memphis got Marc Gasol in the deal?
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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Except that Kobe has never left the Lakers, and it's not his fault they acquired a bunch of talented players via trade. And the Boston big 4 was put together through trades and the draft as well.
You're right. Instead he tried to cry his way out and demand a trade. Because that's SO much better.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Has he or has he not greatly improved as a free throw shooter and a defender when people questioned him about it? Yes. Have other great players developed their post game well into their careers? Absolutely.
He has, but at the same time, people have been saying he'd become a dominant post player since he came into the league. He's in his 8th year now, and he never even goes into the post. He just doesn't want to go in there, he prefers dribbling the life out of the ball at the top of the key. Until that changes, he won't develop a post game.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Uh, who gives a damn? Seriously why does every Lebron convo devolve into a Kobe comparison? What does Lebron running to Dwayne Wade's team have anything at all to do with Kobe?

Seriously, it was a ***** move then, it's an especially bitchy move now that they are (temporarily) struggling, and meanwhile Kobe is just chilling on the west coast.

The only connection is that a whole summer of the media talking up the Heat seems to have fired up the 2 time defending champs.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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Uh, who gives a damn? Seriously why does every Lebron convo devolve into a Kobe comparison? What does Lebron running to Dwayne Wade's team have anything at all to do with Kobe?

Seriously, it was a ***** move then, it's an especially bitchy move now that they are (temporarily) struggling, and meanwhile Kobe is just chilling on the west coast.

The only connection is that a whole summer of the media talking up the Heat seems to have fired up the 2 time defending champs.
I think this has really improved Kobe's standing in the public eye. Maybe I'm biased as an old Kobe hater, but it seems like Kobe's got his big time fans, but before The Decision, it seems like LeBron was generally more popular because he seemed like less of an asshole. Now, after trying to take the easy way out(fact), he all of a sudden got almost all of his old fans, all of Kobe's fans, and most people who aren't Heat fans to hate his guts. Kobe seems like a good guy now. Kobe was my most hated player, and instead of moving to second after LeBron, I really don't mind Kobe anymore. I kinda like him.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Fittingly the Heat are getting their ass kicked, at home, to the PACERS. Pat Riley, the moment is yours.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:40 PM    (permalink
soybean
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soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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I honestly don't care that he went to Miami or is playing with two other top 5 players as long as lebron fans concede that Kobe is the better player :D

btw, Pau got manhandled by Darko the other day.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:41 PM    (permalink
Shiver
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Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Maybe Kahn isn't as bad as we've been lead to believe?
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:43 PM    (permalink
soybean
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soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.soybean is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Fittingly the Heat are getting their ass kicked, at home, to the PACERS. Pat Riley, the moment is yours.
I think fast PGs and big guys are going to be what will be the ultimate krytonite for the heat.

Dampier will help but they need someone to stay in front of the faster 1 guards. I can only imagine how much Aaron Brooks would go off against this team.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Kahn isn't as bad as we've been lead to believe?
I don't know, drafting Flynn and Rubio and getting zilch out of either is pretty gross.

um and Lawson who is awesome, but got traded away. 0/3 on point guards in that draft.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:52 PM    (permalink
Chucky
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Originally Posted by soybean View Post
I honestly don't care that he went to Miami or is playing with two other top 5 players as long as lebron fans concede that Kobe is the better player :D

btw, Pau got manhandled by Darko the other day.
...LeBron is definately the better player....him going to Miami doesn't make him a worse player
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