NBA Discussion Thread

[gpngc]

There is no way you can say with a straight face that you'd rather have Billups than Felton at this point (unless you haven't seen either of them play this season) and Ellis is not a PG either.

The point is, Felton is playing at such a high level right now that he absolutely has entered the conversation with the best PGs in the league. He's definitely playing better than Nash - who can't score as effectively and doesn't play anywhere near Felton's D...

Regardless of tier, you've named 6 PGs who are better than Felton right now. My main point is that I don't know if (or how) the team will pursue CP3 given that they already have a top-7 PG right now.

[Chucky]

Because CP3 is a top 2 PG in the league(number 1 imo) and a top 5 player in the league, while Felton has only been playing at this level for 20 games, and is on a 2 year contract. It is pretty ******* obvious that unless you are the Jazz and you have a chance to get CP3...you take it....no questions asked.

[jballa838]

Originally Posted by Chucky

When you are talking about placing players in tiers you can not only go off 20 games into a season while that may raise him slightly it doesn't raise him to the level of third tier guys like Westbrook and Rose.

1st tier:
CP3
Deron
Gallo(he transcends positions)

2nd tier:
Rondo
Nash

3rd tier:
Westbrook
Rose
Reke

edit-may move westbrook to that 2nd tier

I don't agree with that at all. IMO if you were to break it into tiers it would go like this:
TIER ONE:
1. Paul
2. D-Will
3. Rose
4. Westbrook
5. Rondo

TIER TWO:
6. Nash
7. Parker
8. Curry
9. Felton

TIER THREE:
(Ellis. He's a two IMO, but they have two PG's on the roster, so he has to get time there.)
10. Jennings
11. Wall
12. Kidd
13. Collison

TIER FOUR:
14. Harris
15. Nelson
16. Bibby
17. Miller
18. Bayless (been tearing it up in TOR since the trade.)
19. Billups
20. Augustin

[jballa838]

I got to 8 PG's that are better than Felton, and it really depends on my team structure whether or not he'd be traded for the next tier, as arguments can be made for those 4 if I were to run a slower, halfcourt set or if I had a brandon Roy style forward and could have Ellis/Jennings play off the ball for me a couple possessions and get shots from there, J-Kidd is better suited for the halfcourt and Collison in the NYK system would be lethal. and I'd trade him for John Wall in a heartbeat.

[EvilNixon]

Monta has had to be the initiator more because of Steph's problems and foul trouble. He can play PG though.

[gpngc]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Because CP3 is a top 2 PG in the league(number 1 imo) and a top 5 player in the league, while Felton has only been playing at this level for 20 games, and is on a 2 year contract. It is pretty ******* obvious that unless you are the Jazz and you have a chance to get CP3...you take it....no questions asked.

That was my initial thought as well but I didn't think Felton would be THIS good.

The Knicks have been a complete mess for so many years and they've finally made a good decision and have some chemistry.

If I'm making the decision, I'd definitely trade Felton in a deal for CP3 but I think they're VERY happy with Felton (rightfully so) and therefore will shift their focus on adding a wing scorer, a legitimate defensive big man, or even just developing Gallo.

[EvilNixon]

I'd put Wall ahead of Curry and Felton ahead of Curry, too.

[Chucky]

Paul and Deron definately deserve to be in their own tier. They are in a league of their own.

The season is only 20 games deep you can't base everything off what has happened so far. And Bayless shouldn't be that high...sure he has looked great on the Raps but its been like 5 games.

[Shiver]

A defensive big man is what they need more than anything else. They don't need an upgrade at PG, or a ball hogging wing player.

[gpngc]

Originally Posted by Shiver

A defensive big man is what they need more than anything else. They don't need an upgrade at PG, or a ball hogging wing player.

^I agree somewhat.

The thing is, I'd rather have a talented wing player "ball hogging" than Amare. His 1-on-1 game can get ugly.

Mainly, I want Melo instead of Gallo lol.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by gpngc

That was my initial thought as well but I didn't think Felton would be THIS good.

The Knicks have been a complete mess for so many years and they've finally made a good decision and have some chemistry.

If I'm making the decision, I'd definitely trade Felton in a deal for CP3 but I think they're VERY happy with Felton (rightfully so) and therefore will shift their focus on adding a wing scorer, a legitimate defensive big man, or even just developing Gallo.

I mean keeping Felton, Gallo and Amare is your core sets them up nicely to be a solid 5 seed with first or second round playoff exits for the next few years but if they want to win a championship then they are gonna have to get at least one of(likely both) CP3 and Melo.

[EvilNixon]

T1. D-Will/CP3( complete toss up)

T2.
Rose
Rondo
Russ
Parker

T3
Nash(even more turnover prone than usual)
Felton
Kidd
Jameer
Devin Harris

T-4
Curry
Monta
Mike Conley
Augustin
Aaron Brooks

[jballa838]

Originally Posted by EvilNixon

Monta has had to be the initiator more because of Steph's problems and foul trouble. He can play PG though.

Monta is wired to get his though. Curry can drop 25 efficiently and nobody really knows, but you know when Ellis is scoring, as he gets his in volume. Ellis is fine bringing the ball up as long as he has Lee on the court and the rest are Biedrins, Reggie and Radmanovic. It is worthless to waste Curry's legs running him off screens when Monta is gonna drive to the hole and draw a foul.

[jballa838]

I don't see Rose being that far off of Deron and Paul. What he lacks in playmaking ability in comparison to those two he makes up in scoring ability and explosion. He's a definitive 3rd and maybe that is where the tier should be broken up. and on the record I'll say that Rose will bring the Bulls a title before Deron with the Jazz and Paul with the Hornets.

[comahan]

Id take Westbrook over Rose. Thats not an indictment against Rose though, its more that I think Westbrook is pretty much Superman.

[M.O.T.H.]

Westbrook is right there with Rose...so I wouldnt say Rose is a definite 3rd. Westbrook has upped his game that much.

[Forenci]

Rondo is absurdly overrated. Does he rack up a ton of assists? Sure. But he's also very turnover prone for a point guard.

Not to mention his offensive game is one dimensional and he can't hit free throws.

[Chucky]

Hes also unbelievable on the defensive end though

[Shiver]

Originally Posted by comahan

Id take Westbrook over Rose. Thats not an indictment against Rose though, its more that I think Westbrook is pretty much Superman.

Yeah I think as great as Rose has been this year, and he has, Westbrook has been even better. They are similar in style, but Westbrook gives you better defense and free throw attempts/percentage.

[Forenci]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Hes also unbelievable on the defensive end though

He's a great defender, but to me the single most important thing a point guard needs to do is hold onto the ball and not create opportunities for the other team. Rondo does that at an alarming rate.

[M.O.T.H.]

Rondo turns it over at a high rate...but so do Westbrook and Rose. So I wouldnt kill him too much for that, in comparison. I absolutely hate when PGs cant shoot FTs, however. I also tend to hate ones that dont have a three ball. But alas, I'm big on Rose and Westbrook. haha.

[Shiver]

Rondo is amazingly flawed, that's why I only have him 5th despite his 14 assist/2.5 steal average. But I wouldn't hold turnovers against him, they aren't much higher than Nash, Williams, etc. and his A/TO ratio is awesome.

[Forenci]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Rondo turns it over at a high rate...but so do Westbrook and Rose. So I wouldnt kill him too much for that, in comparison. I absolutely hate when PGs cant shoot FTs, however. I also tend to hate ones that dont have a three ball. But alas, I'm big on Rose and Westbrook. haha.

They do indeed, particularly Westbrook, which I don't like. But as you said he is great from the FT line, has an offensive game, is an excellent defender, and can score in bunches.

[M.O.T.H.]

Damn all these good PGs. The Meerkat will never make another All-Star game at this rate, and he's playing some damn fine basketball, on both ends of the court.

[EvilNixon]

Originally Posted by jballa838

Monta is wired to get his though. Curry can drop 25 efficiently and nobody really knows, but you know when Ellis is scoring, as he gets his in volume. Ellis is fine bringing the ball up as long as he has Lee on the court and the rest are Biedrins, Reggie and Radmanovic. It is worthless to waste Curry's legs running him off screens when Monta is gonna drive to the hole and draw a foul.

If I didn't have a research paper, I'd cut up the Grizzly and T'Wolves games where Monta was setting everyone up.

All Steph has on Monta is elite ball handling. He's a me first get mine player just as much as Monta.(Neither is much like that, but Steph does take some really questionable shots all the time) Problem is, he gets into foul trouble and Smart is much more willing to yank him.