NBA Discussion Thread

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by Halsey

You don't know how LeBron will continue to evolve. It's a delusion to think you do. Nobody was calling Jordan the undeniable GOAT at 26. Jordan was not as complete a player at 26 as he was at 30. LeBron is more well rounded now than he was 4 years ago.

remember that part where you only quoted half of my post and didn't see where I said "I don't think he can keep that up"? yeah, me too. I didn't come out saying I KNOW how he'll evolve. Jesus, people are going so far out of their way to suck Lebron's dick it's killing their ability to read and comprehend other peoples' position on the debate. Unreal

I'm neither a lebron hater nor lover, so watching this unfold with extremists is hilarity

[descendency]

Jordan also played 3 years of college ball, so technically (if the belief that players will play the same number of years regardless when they start) LeBron is the same as Jordan was at 29... and Jordan won a title at 28.

[7-11]

Originally Posted by Cudders

You're right. This isn't a referendum on his acumen as a general manager. But it has evolved into an argument about how LeBron has soured in the eyes of most fans. The crux of that, for me at least, is his perceived arrogance and lack of accountability for his actions. When he left the Cavs to sign with the Heat, he made allusions that his supporting cast in Cleveland was not sufficient enough to win a championship. A supporting cast that had his stamp of approval all over it, mind you. The bottom-line is I can't fault the man for the decision he made because I might have made the same choice as a born Clevelander if I were in his position. But I absolutely can dislike him for how he handled himself throughout the process.

As far as the supporting cast argument goes, you're splitting hairs either way, in my opinion. The main point is that both teams were built around a single superstar and everything else was specifically tailored to compliment that player's game. As you said, A.I. was a volume scorer that dominated the ball in an isolation-based offense because his skills one-on-one were unmatched. So, to allow their superstar to flourish, the 76ers went out and got pieces that didn't require the ball to flow on offense, would clean the glass hard, would manufacture second-chance points, would hustle for loose balls, and compensate for A.I.'s defensive deficiencies. Everything fit like a glove.

Similarly, the Cavs realized they had one of the most freakish physical specimens in NBA history as their cornerstone, who happened to be borderline unstoppable at getting to the basket and possessed almost prophetic court vision. So, to complete the puzzle, they filled out their roster with sharpshooters and role players. Guys that could bury their jumpers when the defense packed the paint. Guys that could clean the glass and fight for extra possessions. Guys that believed in a defensive mentality. Guys that would scratch and claw and make the game ugly.

At the end of the day, neither supporting casts were anything special. But it is inarguable that both supporting casts were assembled with their superstar's skill set and talents in mind. In that regard, they're not all that different.



Quite frankly, if you doubt he pretty much handpicked his roster, you're sadly mistaken. He literally was the most powerful superstar in NBA history.

And the notion that LeBron wanted Cleveland to pursue key free agents is a two-way street. Obviously LeBron wanted the Cavs to bring marquee players to Cleveland. But LeBron never made that kind of commitment to the team. Have fun selling a big-time free agent on taking a discounted long-term contract when the face of the franchise has made it apparent that leaving is a distinct possibility. It's just not going to happen. No upper-tier NBA player wants to spend the prime of their career mired in mediocrity or worse in Cleveland.

As far as the alleged J.J. Hickson for Amare swap goes, that trade was misreported in the media around the deadline. First, J.J. Hickson was not the deal-breaker for the Cavs. Second, the front office was a little concerned on a signability front. But they were still willing to ship Hickson to Phoenix if it meant getting Amare in return. The Suns simply decided to make one final playoff push with their core intact. Really nothing the Cavs can do about that.

Wow, someone actually responded in an intelligent way instead of using big, bold fonts and then deleting it. Cudos to you sir.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by 7-11

Wow, someone actually responded in an intelligent way instead of using big, bold fonts and then deleting it. Cudos to you sir.

Cudders made one of the best posts I've read here in a while.

But fyi, soybean's post was deleted by the mods and he was infracted for it. Please keep your emotions in check guys. No need for anyone to get upset about the discussion. It's meaningless in the end.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by descendency

Jordan also played 3 years of college ball, so technically (if the belief that players will play the same number of years regardless when they start) LeBron is the same as Jordan was at 29... and Jordan won a title at 28.

Nope, LeBron is 26 years old. 26 is not the same as 29. LeBron entered the NBA because he was a lock to be the #1 pick and was offered huge endorsement deals the moment they became eligible to him. It's not his fault Jordan didn't have those opportunities. I'm sure Jordan would have done the same thing in LeBron's shoes(figureatively speaking. Not LeBron's Nike Shoe. Jordan has his own shoe brand). LeBron has been internationally famous since before he graduated high school. Something Jordan didn't have to deal with so young.

[fenikz]

yes lebron will have more opportunities to win titles, wont mean **** to me until he has 6 though

[soybean]

This board just has very poor revisionist history.

Remember when there was a majority of the board that was trying to argue steve nash was a better point guard than Magic Johnson? o.O

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Why is Jordan's 6 titles the golden standard when Bill Russell has 11?

[sbh15]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Why is Jordan's 6 titles the golden standard when Bill Russell has 11?

Because we're comparing Lebron to Jordan, not Bill Russell.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Why is Jordan's 6 titles the golden standard when Bill Russell has 11?

Number of teams in the league. In Russell's first championship season there was 8 teams in the league, that number grew to 14 by his last but still well below the number of teams MJ had to beat.

[SativaDominant]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Why is Jordan's 6 titles the golden standard when Bill Russell has 11?

For the same reason that the Chicago Bears' 9 NFL Championships don't make them the golden standard for football franchises.

[soybean]

um... awkward...

[devinhester=R.O.Y 2006]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Why is Jordan's 6 titles the golden standard when Bill Russell has 11?

Read Bill Simmons' The Book of Basketball. It will explain why.

[TitansCJftw]

Originally Posted by soybean

um... awkward...

uhhhh.... skip bayless is an ass/idiot/moron whats new or awkward about that? it gives him a job i guess... his idiocy spans quite a few years he even made me think woody had a brain on cold pizza? i may have misinterpreted your statement

[Raiderz4Life]

For once...first time...like...ever...I agree with Skip lol Hilarious video ahaha

[prock]

That was just such a shitshow of a video. Neither side has any proof and it is all just banter. But Skip ******* blew up there and it was very awkward to watch.

[soybean]

Gameday. Dear Sports Gods, If you have an ounce of respect to the sanctity of the sport or to the people of Cleveland Ohio, or for diehard basketball fans, you will not let the Miami Heat win the title!

[yo123]

I think this series is going 7, unfortunately I think Miami probably pulls it out. Their defense down the stretch is just insane, I haven't seen two players cover as much ground defensively as Lebron and Wade since Jordan/Pippen. No matter what happens assuming Lebron guards Dirk late in the game it's going to be awesome.

[LonghornsLegend]

I can't believe were still talking MJ vs Jordan, if anything I think that kinda proves a point in itself. It's at least an argument that people obviously feel the need to debate, if it was as far away of a landslide as some make it seem it wouldn't get nearly as much attention.


Lebron, or nobody else will ever be MJ, or as good, or better. Nor will they win more championships or awards. That's no reason to slight Lebron. There are some things Lebron can do right now that Jordan never could do, and vice versa.


He'll make his own legacy, I think if he wins a few rings, a couple more MVP's, continues his dominance on the defensive side of the ball, and more importantly has that longevity into his 30's without a significant drop off he'll be looked at as an all-time great.


There are a ton of HOF basketball players who don't come close to touching Jordan, but that doesn't mean there not an all-time great. I think by the time Lebron is finished an argument will be made to put him in the top 25 basketball players all time, the fact that we pretty much know that at age 26 is a big enough feat in itself, he's not gonna come close to doing what MJ did and neither will anyone else.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

except the whole late 20's-30's thing is MJ got by on saavy, smarts and a killer jumper. Lebron gets by on being something formed out of a lab. He's one of the most freakish people on the planet. I dont know if he can keep that up. I've said so many times in the past (not so much now with his decline) but in the whole kobe-lebron debates: Lebron may be the better overall player, but kobe has better basketball skills. Lebron gets by on his unreal athleticism moreso than anything else

I think it depends on how he develps his game. While MJ obviously wasn't the athletic freak he relied alot on his game in his earlier days on driving to the bucket. The jumper and fadeaway got better as he got older and he perfected it the more dangerous it became.


Lebron still needs to work on his post up game, his jumper and 3 have all gotten progressively better also. I mean look at Dirk now, he's about to turn 33 and playing some of the best ball in his life, like Halsey said we really won't know much about Lebron's legacy until he reaches that age. He could struggle, he could still get better, I think it'll define who he is as a player more then anything up to this point has.

[Raiderz4Life]

Man, A lot of ppl are giving me **** bout rooting for Dallas since they KOed LA but...Imma pull hard for Dallas...because there's no other team I hate more than the Heat

[D-Unit]

[CashmoneyDrew]

I could've swore Michael McDonald was about to have a stroke or heart attack while singing the national anthem.

[LonghornsLegend]

This whole week has reminded me of the 2006 Finals WAYYYY too much. Definately one of the toughest losses as a sports fan I've ever encountered to see the way that series slipped away. Whether we win or not it won't change that disaster.


The very next season we won 67 games, hard for me to believe that if we had won the Finals we wouldn't have maybe snuck in at least 1 more appearance between then and now.


I just have a feeling this goes 7 games, so here's to hoping for an epic Finals. I'm headed to the bar in 20 minutes as soon as I'm off work, the bars have been absolutely nuts here in Dallas the last 2 rounds in the playoffs.

[jag]

anyone know a good finals steam/streamsite?