NBA Discussion Thread

[LonghornsLegend]

That's can't be real. I'm not sure how you could screw up any bigger if so. Last I checked, they didn't do newspapers, then blindly process them without anyone going over them.

[gpngc]

LeBron's cell phone is always on vibrate. No rings.

[General Zod]

Some of the people in his "camp" kill me too. I dont expect everybody to bash James(even though he deserves it), but these excuses you here from some of his people are head scratching. The man could rape a nun, and these people would still be making excuses for him.

[soybean]

I'm curious as to why Lebron is considered the best in the league when he still has:

1) no post game
2) no jumpshot
3) no confidence

is it cause he can rebound and assist and has the body of a mack truck? that doesn't make you the best, it just makes you at most a very all around player.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by soybean

I'm curious as to why Lebron is considered the best in the league when he still has:

1) no post game
2) no jumpshot
3) no confidence

is it cause he can rebound and assist and has the body of a mack truck? that doesn't make you the best, it just makes you at most a very all around player.

He led the lead in scoring without doing those things? Just a start. This cant be a serious question.

[soybean]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

He led the lead in scoring without doing those things? Just a start. This cant be a serious question.

I'm talking about right now. Best regular season playerrrrr!!!

he's not a winner.

EDIT: not only that but his supposed lock down D got exposed on the biggest stage.

His best offensive trait is easily negated by a simple change to the zone. He has a lot to work on this offseason.

[SativaDominant]

Originally Posted by soybean

I'm curious as to why Lebron is considered the best in the league when he still has:

1) no post game
2) no jumpshot
3) no confidence

is it cause he can rebound and assist and has the body of a mack truck? that doesn't make you the best, it just makes you at most a very all around player.

The problem is that people confuse "talent" with "skill."

[diabsoule]

[descendency]

Originally Posted by soybean

I'm curious as to why Lebron is considered the best in the league when he still has:

1) no post game
2) no jumpshot
3) no confidence

is it cause he can rebound and assist and has the body of a mack truck? that doesn't make you the best, it just makes you at most a very all around player.

He's a great passer and a really good defender. He slashes to the basket better than almost anyone, usually. His jumpshot has gotten better (Though, I've been making King Ames jokes all day). Find me a complete player who has great athleticism. He just doesn't exist right now.

If LeBron asked my opinion (which he won't), I'd tell him to take a few weeks off, recover mentally, and then sit down with Eric Spolstra (assuming he's still the coach) and have him tear me down until I can play in his offense at a basic level. Because LeBron looks lost at times in that offense. He was way too tentative too. If Spolstra can't coach good enough, then James needs to go to Reilly and tell him.

Whatever it is, I think those guys just got out classed with teamwork. If I were the heat, right now, I would be putting up pictures all over the campus of them winning the championship to ensure it didn't happen again. The problem wasn't talent (though Bibby, Anthony, Haslem, Miller, and Chalmers are really bad starters). It was execution.

[YAYareaRB]

They just need Riley coaching.. done!

[yodapoop]

It seems like everyone knows Miami lost. Unfortunately, everyone will not know Dallas won.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by yodapoop

It seems like everyone knows Miami lost. Unfortunately, everyone will not know Dallas won.

I could care less really. I know they won, I know they won so harrrrdd.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by soybean

I'm curious as to why Lebron is considered the best in the league when he still has:

1) no post game
2) no jumpshot
3) no confidence

is it cause he can rebound and assist and has the body of a mack truck? that doesn't make you the best, it just makes you at most a very all around player.

Your reaching now. It would be much harder to make a case for why Lebron isn't the best player in the league, then to say he is. If he had those 3 things you listed, he would average 60 points a game.


People forget Lebron has his weaknesses like everyone else. Now did he play like the best player in the league? Hell no. But he didn't win two MVP's and a scoring title by accident. I don't think that makes Dwight Howard any less dominant with all the things he needs to work on. Hell he doesn't have a post move either and he's actually a Center.


If Lebron fixes those things on that list he won't have a weakness and he'd be a perfect player. I don't think that's likely. Maybe he'll always be a player who never gets the most out of his talent, but that doesn't mean he's still not better then everyone else.


Dirk needs to learn how to play defense, or try to play defense, but he's still an elite player. I think Lebron's shot is good enough, and I say that loosely. Because if he learned an arsenal of post up moves, along with a fadeaway from midrange out of it, he'd score at will.


His shot seems so bad because he gets lazy and relies on it. If he drove the ball like he was supposed to, or backed every opponent down into at least mid range territory, he could do whatever he wanted to.


Hell if he just started to not be such a ***** and drove the ball to the bucket to get fouled he could still take over any time he wanted. The fact that Chandler was playing safe all series with the fouls, it confused me that he didn't make it a priority to drive right at him more often.

[Zycho32]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Your reaching now. It would be much harder to make a case for why Lebron isn't the best player in the league, then to say he is. If he had those 3 things you listed, he would average 60 points a game.


People forget Lebron has his weaknesses like everyone else. Now did he play like the best player in the league? Hell no. But he didn't win two MVP's and a scoring title by accident. I don't think that makes Dwight Howard any less dominant with all the things he needs to work on. Hell he doesn't have a post move either and he's actually a Center.


If Lebron fixes those things on that list he won't have a weakness and he'd be a perfect player. I don't think that's likely. Maybe he'll always be a player who never gets the most out of his talent, but that doesn't mean he's still not better then everyone else.


Dirk needs to learn how to play defense, or try to play defense, but he's still an elite player. I think Lebron's shot is good enough, and I say that loosely. Because if he learned an arsenal of post up moves, along with a fadeaway from midrange out of it, he'd score at will.


His shot seems so bad because he gets lazy and relies on it. If he drove the ball like he was supposed to, or backed every opponent down into at least mid range territory, he could do whatever he wanted to.


Hell if he just started to not be such a ***** and drove the ball to the bucket to get fouled he could still take over any time he wanted. The fact that Chandler was playing safe all series with the fouls, it confused me that he didn't make it a priority to drive right at him more often.

I have a question; is the criteria for 'Best Player in the League' mainly determined by actual talent or by the ability to properly utilize said talent?

Taking LeBron as an example, he willingly took on a Second Banana role in the finals, and even then put up a disturbingly pedestrian performance that offered precious little when it truly counted and as a result lost his second Finals appearance. Sure you can fire the coach and upgrade the bench and give it a few more tries... but I don't think the excuses back him up this time.

[SickwithIt1010]

[RaiderNation]

I thought Charles Barkley said it best(for once) that the media labeled LeBron as the next MJ when in reality he is a Scottie Pippen/Magic Johnson type player. The media loves to label athletes before they even do anything and LeBron is a great example. Being the next Pippen/Magic is far from an insult since both are among the top players ever, but there will likey never be a next Jordan. Kobe during the last couple years is the closest we will likely ever see a Jordan type player.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by Zycho32

I have a question; is the criteria for 'Best Player in the League' mainly determined by actual talent or by the ability to properly utilize said talent?

Taking LeBron as an example, he willingly took on a Second Banana role in the finals, and even then put up a disturbingly pedestrian performance that offered precious little when it truly counted and as a result lost his second Finals appearance. Sure you can fire the coach and upgrade the bench and give it a few more tries... but I don't think the excuses back him up this time.

That's a good question. I don't know...I guess I feel like, watching the Finals Wade was clearly better on a bigger stage, but I feel like Lebron is more talented, and when he wants to, better then Wade. I've seen Bron be clutch before in big games which is puzzling to me. I don't think it's because he can't.


I still remember watching the game vs the Pistons. Series tied 2 a piece, for a chance to go to the Finals. His team started bricking shots all over, so he scores 25 straight points to close the game out. That seems like ages ago now. I remember Billups talking after the game about how they threw everything at him, while the Pistons had one of the best defenses that season.


I have no idea how at 22 that could happen, and at 26 now he can shrink from the moment. I guess when I say "best" I mean talent, but after thinking about it taking the whole package into it I don't think I can consider him the best right now. Or at the top even.


edit: just to clarify, it's not like this is a case where a guy has ALWAYS been a failure when the game is on the line. Lebron has been huge in a ton of big games, and has his mark in history numerous times. It's just probably 1 of the first times in my life I can remember a guy who had it like that, then could turn into a complete joke later in his career when the game is on the line, as a much better player.


It's baffling. But I don't think we'll really know the whole true story behind this until his career is over.

[SativaDominant]

Isn't "wanting" it part of the criteria for being the best player in the league?

Ask yourself this. If you switched Lebron and Dirk, which team would have won? The Heat. Hard to make the case that he's the best with that in mind.

Simmons said it best in his newest article. Bron is like Tyson. His arrogant preen, his overwhelming physical prowress, the intimidation he inflicts on some players. Stand up to him and punch him back, though, and he caves.

[soybean]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Your reaching now. It would be much harder to make a case for why Lebron isn't the best player in the league, then to say he is. If he had those 3 things you listed, he would average 60 points a game.


People forget Lebron has his weaknesses like everyone else. Now did he play like the best player in the league? Hell no. But he didn't win two MVP's and a scoring title by accident. I don't think that makes Dwight Howard any less dominant with all the things he needs to work on. Hell he doesn't have a post move either and he's actually a Center.


If Lebron fixes those things on that list he won't have a weakness and he'd be a perfect player. I don't think that's likely. Maybe he'll always be a player who never gets the most out of his talent, but that doesn't mean he's still not better then everyone else.


Dirk needs to learn how to play defense, or try to play defense, but he's still an elite player. I think Lebron's shot is good enough, and I say that loosely. Because if he learned an arsenal of post up moves, along with a fadeaway from midrange out of it, he'd score at will.


His shot seems so bad because he gets lazy and relies on it. If he drove the ball like he was supposed to, or backed every opponent down into at least mid range territory, he could do whatever he wanted to.


Hell if he just started to not be such a ***** and drove the ball to the bucket to get fouled he could still take over any time he wanted. The fact that Chandler was playing safe all series with the fouls, it confused me that he didn't make it a priority to drive right at him more often.

Here's the thing though: every knock (and this is coming from a guy who has no vested interest in D-ho whatsoever) about Dwight Howard we have the next season it seems he works hard on it during the offseason. We use to claim that most of his points came off of dunks and put backs and he had no go to move. watch him these past two seasons, he's developed in every aspect that we have criticized him for (we as in the fans and media).

Now go to Lebron. we have been saying FOR YEARS he has no post up move which EVERYONE and i mean EVERYONE admits if he had he would be one of the most unstoppable players ever (maybe as dominant as shaq?) yet he has NO semblance of having even worked on it.

Lebron if you want to go by potential and ability wise is probably even superior than michael just cause of his frame and unreal athleticism (blend of size and speed) but it takes more than that to be the best.

And they brought up a good point on espn radio today: you can replace Lebron's performance this past finals with a handful of guys and Miami probably wins the title. for example, if Lebron and Dirk switched teams before the series... who wins, Dallas or Miami?

Another random point they brought up is that Winners want the ball at the end, superstars want the ball in the end regardless of how horrid a game they were having. (they used Carmelo as one example)

Disclaimer: this was written without having read the last two posts, sorry.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by RaiderNation

I thought Charles Barkley said it best(for once) that the media labeled LeBron as the next MJ when in reality he is a Scottie Pippen/Magic Johnson type player. The media loves to label athletes before they even do anything and LeBron is a great example. Being the next Pippen/Magic is far from an insult since both are among the top players ever, but there will likey never be a next Jordan. Kobe during the last couple years is the closest we will likely ever see a Jordan type player.

Off topic, but I think LeBron's best move would be to take over PG full time and stop playing the 3 all together. He's an outstanding passer. He has good enough ball skills. His best attribute tends to be driving to the basket (which is easiest to do at the top of the key). Magic's Assist/Turnover ratio isn't as great as some might leave you thinking, but he is still regarded as the best PG to ever play.

Miami's problem is that they are soft. Fortunately for them, they are significantly better than Chicago, Boston, NY, and every other East team. The best West teams are old now, except OKC and OKC has the same flaws Miami does, with less talent.

[M.O.T.H.]

Soooooooooo....Dwight says there is no chance that he'll sign an extension with Orlando before the end of the 2012 season. He's 100% planning on becoming a FA at the end of the year, so he can "weigh his options". Even though, he says he wants to stay in Orlando. hmm. This may really screw Orlando over. I swear to god, if we lose him for nothing, I'm going to be livid. Dwight does seem pretty pissed off, though...with all of Otis Smith's moves. Stressing the fact, that Orlando never has a chance to build any chemistry with all the roster turnover. I certainly agree with that. And trading away one of his best friends, in Courtney Lee, probably wasnt the smartest thing to do, either. Reminds me of when Orlando pissed off T-Mac, by trading Mike Miller. Things just kept going down hill from that point. This really isnt the greatest of news...because Orlando cannot let him just walk. If we suck next year, I can certainly see things snowballing to the point where Howard gets traded mid-season. At the very least, Orlando is going to have to explore some trade options for Howard during the season, if his mentality doesnt change, anyway. I cant see him leaving without us getting something for him, I just cant. Dwight cant keep tip-toeing around this, though. By mid-year, he's going to need to give Orlando a rather concrete answer, as to if he is staying or going. Because Orlando will need to grab some compensation if it's the latter. This cant turn into another Shaq, or even a Lebron situation. If he loves Orlando so much, but does want to move on...I would hope that he doesnt **** them over in the process.

[Jamaal-Football]

If he truly wants to keep his options open, why would he open himself up for a trade? It's gonna be the Carmelo situation all over again, Orlando won't want to let him walk for nothing, but no team is gonna step up and offer what Orlando will want because he won't sign an extension. If i were him i'd decline to make a decision until next year's free agency period where a worst case scenario for him would be to take all the money the magic will throw at him.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by Jamaal-Football

If he truly wants to keep his options open, why would he open himself up for a trade? It's gonna be the Carmelo situation all over again, Orlando won't want to let him walk for nothing, but no team is gonna step up and offer what Orlando will want because he won't sign an extension. If i were him i'd decline to make a decision until next year's free agency period where a worst case scenario for him would be to take all the money the magic will throw at him.

A lot changes in the course of a year. If things aren't going smoothly, he can certainly open himself up to being moved. Add to the fact that, he can choose from a larger base of franchises he'd like to be moved to. A lot of the teams that would like to acquire him, wont actually have the available funds to do so via FA, so a trade would be necessary. And actually, it's not all about Dwight...it may be within Orlando's best interest to just move him, if they are fearful of the realistic prospect of him bolting for nothing. No compensation through his departure would have some horrible ramifications on this franchise. The fan base will be pissed regardless, but losing him, "Shaq style" all over again, would just be devastating to a city, that has never gotten over that. And then we're talking about the potential for people to lose their jobs over this as well. They may just have to cut their losses. As for not getting good compensation or "proper compensation". That wouldnt be a problem...because obviously, they wouldnt move him, unless some kind of extension would be agreed upon firstly. That's just a given. I dont think finding a buyer for Dwight would be difficult, at all.

This has the potential to get very messy in a plethora of ways.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by soybean

I'm curious as to why Lebron is considered the best in the league when he still has:

1) no post game
2) no jumpshot
3) no confidence

is it cause he can rebound and assist and has the body of a mack truck? that doesn't make you the best, it just makes you at most a very all around player.

Because this team:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html
Made it to the NBA Finals and because this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/c...land-cavaliers
Is what happened to the team he left.

LeBron played like crap these finals, but let's not change history to make it seems like he always plays like crap in the playoffs. LeBron has had plenty of big playoff games with his streaky jumper, great passing and ability to get to the hoop. Problem he's on someone elses team and that's ******* with his head which is something he needs to change cause if he's trying to be Wade's sidekick he's screwed unless he doesn't leave the gym until next season starts trying to make that jumper consistent, or Miami hires a real offensive coach who'll have Wade run Pick n Rolls to LeBron to utilize LeBron as the brutal finisher he could be.

[yodapoop]

He is getting so much crap for this failure cuz he promised a ship in that pre-season celebration that some1 has and will prolly again posted 1,000 times. And he deserves it....