NBA Discussion Thread - Page 2633

prock · 05-01-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefalconer

maybe 6, maybe 7 but the knicks would've won. and the knicks fans here were pretty much expecting a very difficult series with the heat.

Oh, is that so???

soybean · 05-01-2012, 01:47 PM

Why don't the Knicks try a Carmelo + Chandler trade for Dwight + Hedo?

Then run the offense through Jeremy Lin. I think Lin + Dwight would work better than Lin and Melo.

LTgiants · 05-01-2012, 01:50 PM

thefalconer · 05-01-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

Why don't the Knicks try a Carmelo + Chandler trade for Dwight + Hedo?

Then run the offense through Jeremy Lin. I think Lin + Dwight would work better than Lin and Melo.

you > james dolan

amare was SO bad last night. i feel for him, what a tough year he's had.

soybean · 05-01-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefalconer

you > james dolan

amare was SO bad last night. i feel for him, what a tough year he's had.

Look what happens when you put it in the trade machine.

Trade machine

stalemate. Which means neither team gets an unfair advantage.

yo123 · 05-01-2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefalconer

he never really said that.

What are you talking about? He said exactly those words.

Brodeur · 05-01-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

Why don't the Knicks try a Carmelo + Chandler trade for Dwight + Hedo?

Then run the offense through Jeremy Lin. I think Lin + Dwight would work better than Lin and Melo.

Because Lin is nowhere near as good as you seem to think he is, and running an offense through him is ridiculous.

bigbluedefense · 05-01-2012, 02:48 PM

LAST TIME I CHECKED, IT'S A 7 GAME SERIES!

#KnicksInSix

bigbluedefense · 05-01-2012, 02:49 PM

And for the record, I've said all season we had no chance against Miami and would get swept.

Why do you think I wanted to play the Bulls so bad?

bigbluedefense · 05-01-2012, 02:50 PM

But **** that ****. We're still gonna come back!

I believe!

**** those fair-weather Miami *****. Watch them lose in the finals again, then all those fair-weather fans are gonna go back in their caves, talking about how they were too busy going to the beach or mountain biking or some **** to be paying attention to the games.

yodapoop · 05-01-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Because Lin is nowhere near as good as you seem to think he is, and running an offense through him is ridiculous.

Plus, I think we should recall what the Heat did to Jeremy Lin. The Heat kinda killed Linsanity. Can't play the Raptors every game.

soybean · 05-01-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Because Lin is nowhere near as good as you seem to think he is, and running an offense through him is ridiculous.

Why? These are probably your arguing points, correct me if I'm wrong: he can't go left, doesn't play defense, and they figured him out cause his production dropped.

Give me tangible evidence that his production drop isn't due to Carmelo coming back and being a ball stopper.

he averaged 25 pts 9 assists when Carmelo was out.

Even when Carmelo was in he still averaged 15 pts and 7 assists.

You're telling me he can't play starting pg when you have: Jrue Holiday, Jose Calderon, Rodney Stuckey, George Hill/Darron Collison, Jeff Teague, Dj Agustin, Mario Chalmers, Sessions, Jason Kidd, Mike Conley, Jarret Jack, Ray Felton, and Devin Harris.

in the league?

You don't think he can work with Shump on his defense in the off season and limit his turnovers next year?

he was essentially a rookie.

also... WHO THE **** CARES?! YOU'D HAVE DWIGHT ******* HOWARD!

bigbluedefense · 05-01-2012, 02:59 PM

Yeah I know Lin isn't nearly as good as the hype he receives, but it's complete ******** to say he can't be a starting PG in this league.

Even when he "fell off" he was still a very productive starting PG. It's nonsense and pure hate to write him off as a ****** player.

soybean · 05-01-2012, 03:03 PM

btw, when Carmelo was out Lin got 18 attempts a game. When Carmelo came back? Lin's attempts dropped to 11-12.

Look, let's face it Carmelo is probably the 1st or 2nd best one on one player in the league but he's a ball stopper.

TheBoyWonder22 · 05-01-2012, 03:05 PM

He didn't say he say he shouldn't be a starting PG, he said the offense shouldn't be run THROUGH him. Huge difference.

Brodeur · 05-01-2012, 03:05 PM

He's going to magically learn defense from Shumpert (I don't think a guy like Shumpert can just teach defense to his teammates, and you live in a dream world if you think he can) and limit his turnovers? He benefited from a combination of a hot streak, playing in D'Antoni's system, and the Knicks having no other options. He cannot be a guy that you can count on to be an elite player or anything close to what Melo or Chandler can bring. He's a decent PG who is inefficient, plays lousy D, and has issues with turnovers.

Raiderz4Life · 05-01-2012, 03:06 PM

I've always agreed with the notion that if Carmelo is your no. 1...you'll never win a ring.

bigbluedefense · 05-01-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBoyWonder22

He didn't say he say he shouldn't be a starting PG, he said the offense shouldn't be run THROUGH him. Huge difference.

In that hypothetical situation (which will never happen) it wouldn't though. It would run through Dwight.

soybean · 05-01-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBoyWonder22

He didn't say he say he shouldn't be a starting PG, he said the offense shouldn't be run THROUGH him. Huge difference.

after i look at it, you're right. I just mean have the offense run through him running the point not feature him.

sorry.

bigbluedefense · 05-01-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

He's going to magically learn defense from Shumpert (I don't think a guy like Shumpert can just teach defense to his teammates, and you live in a dream world if you think he can) and limit his turnovers? He benefited from a combination of a hot streak, playing in D'Antoni's system, and the Knicks having no other options. He cannot be a guy that you can count on to be an elite player or anything close to what Melo or Chandler can bring. He's a decent PG who is inefficient, plays lousy D, and has issues with turnovers.

I think turnovers can be reduced, and defense can be taught. Will he ever be very efficient with the ball? Probably not. He won't be a great defender either but he can learn to be better.

Look, at the end of the day he's still a rookie, this was the first real action he's ever saw. If people keep saying "When John Wall can learn not to suck he'll be a great player" I don't see why the same can't apply to Lin.

Brodeur · 05-01-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I think turnovers can be reduced, and defense can be taught. Will he ever be very efficient with the ball? Probably not. He won't be a great defender either but he can learn to be better.

Look, at the end of the day he's still a rookie, this was the first real action he's ever saw. If people keep saying "When John Wall can learn not to suck he'll be a great player" I don't see why the same can't apply to Lin.

Nash is one of the smartest and hardest working players in the league, but he's never been good defensively because he doesn't have the foot speed or instincts necessary to do so. Lin will have the same problem, and in his case, defense will not be taught. He doesn't have the skills in him to be a good defender.

Wall is one of the most talented guys in the league, but he's also probably the worst shooter in the league so it's not really much of a comparison. Again, Lin can be a decent point guard but he'll never be top ten or anything like that because he's just not that good.

soybean · 05-01-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

He's going to magically learn defense from Shumpert (I don't think a guy like Shumpert can just teach defense to his teammates, and you live in a dream world if you think he can) and limit his turnovers? He benefited from a combination of a hot streak, playing in D'Antoni's system, and the Knicks having no other options. He cannot be a guy that you can count on to be an elite player or anything close to what Melo or Chandler can bring. He's a decent PG who is inefficient, plays lousy D, and has issues with turnovers.

a player can defintiely learn defense as long as they commit to it. Take Lebron for example. He was a joke defensively during the first half of his career. Now he's an amazing defender. Same thing is happening with Durant if you guys have been paying attention and to an extent Carmelo.

As long as you dedicate time to it.

btw, like I said he was essentially a rookie, of course he's gonna be turnover prone. Look at Kyrie Irving and Rubio, they turn it over an insane amount too. They'll settle down and not turn it over as much next season.

Did he benefit from the hot streak and "D'antoni's system"? Maybe? maybe not. There's no discernible evidence to suggest either way.

btw, side note, I don't get this whole D'antoni system. I look at the offense he ran with the Suns and the offense ran by the knicks and I barely see a resemblance. The knicsk played D (or tried to) the Suns let you shoot it so they can have the ball back asap. put them side to side and i guarantee you won't be able to find much similarities.

soybean · 05-01-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderz4life

I've always agreed with the notion that if Carmelo is your no. 1...you'll never win a ring.

yup, that's basically where my rant started.

melo+chandler for dwight+hedo.

bigbluedefense · 05-01-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Nash is one of the smartest and hardest working players in the league, but he's never been good defensively because he doesn't have the foot speed or instincts necessary to do so. Lin will have the same problem, and in his case, defense will not be taught. He doesn't have the skills in him to be a good defender.

Wall is one of the most talented guys in the league, but he's also probably the worst shooter in the league so it's not really much of a comparison. Again, Lin can be a decent point guard but he'll never be top ten or anything like that because he's just not that good.

That's fine. I can live with that. I don't need him to be a top 10 PG. Just good enough that we can survive with him. With the contracts on our roster, we can't afford a top 10 PG anyway.

My biggest concern for next year is Shump. Will he be the same player? And now with this ACL, can he work on his J? (probably not). He's my favorite Knick, and it seems like he may never be the same again.

BuckeyeDan17 · 05-01-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

a player can defintiely learn defense as long as they commit to it. Take Lebron for example. He was a joke defensively during the first half of his career. Now he's an amazing defender. Same thing is happening with Durant if you guys have been paying attention and to an extent Carmelo.

As long as you dedicate time to it.

btw, like I said he was essentially a rookie, of course he's gonna be turnover prone. Look at Kyrie Irving and Rubio, they turn it over an insane amount too. They'll settle down and not turn it over as much next season.

Did he benefit from the hot streak and "D'antoni's system"? Maybe? maybe not. There's no discernible evidence to suggest either way.

btw, side note, I don't get this whole D'antoni system. I look at the offense he ran with the Suns and the offense ran by the knicks and I barely see a resemblance. The knicsk played D (or tried to) the Suns let you shoot it so they can have the ball back asap. put them side to side and i guarantee you won't be able to find much similarities.

LeBron James has an ungodly amount of athleticism to work with when it comes to contructing a good defensive-minded approach to the game. Sometimes desire isn't enough. He doesn't have the physical gifts necessary to develop into a great defender. That's an awful comparison.