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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
Yes 623421 100.00%
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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this list means nothing when dirk isn't in the top 10!
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Dude. Stop. When it's all said and done Wade is going to be a top 5 SG of all time.
Jordan, Kobe, Maravich, Gervin, Drexler, Iverson (he sure as hell wasn't a point guard), Bernard King, Ray Allen, and Reggie.

Those guys are unanimously better in my mind, and any argument to the contrary is just dumb.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Wade is a top 5 SG of all time?
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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hold up top 5 all time?
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Jordan, Kobe, Maravich, Gervin, Drexler, Iverson (he sure as hell wasn't a point guard), Bernard King, Ray Allen, and Reggie.

Those guys are unanimously better in my mind, and any argument to the contrary is just dumb.
The last 4 are just stupid. I'll always love Iverson but he was an inefficient chucker and played in one of the worst conferences of all time, Reggie was a guy who never took his team to the next level, Ray Allen was never a guy who could be the number 1 scorer on a championship team, and Bernard King didn't do it for long enough.

And I missed Maravich which is just an unbelievably bad choice unless we're factoring in college success for some reason.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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And Roy was underrated as an athlete because he moved smoothly, and not like an 8 year old who just downed 10 pixie sticks.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Jordan, Kobe, Maravich, Gervin, Drexler, Iverson (he sure as hell wasn't a point guard), Bernard King, Ray Allen, and Reggie.

Those guys are unanimously better in my mind, and any argument to the contrary is just dumb.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Love's inability to defend makes him a top 15-20 guy. He's stuck on a roster that was incapable of scoring outside of him. I would rather take Dirk. Granted Dirk is just as bad of a defender, but he is a much better scorer.

Hell even give me someone like Gasol over Love, even Josh Smith. Having Love that high suggests that he is the best power-forward in the game. Which he is not.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Does everyone really think I'm being that outlandish with the Wade top 5 thing? I'm genuinely surprised I'm getting so much argument about this.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Jballa is doing an awesome troll job right now.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Love's inability to defend makes him a top 15-20 guy. He's stuck on a roster that was incapable of scoring outside of him. I would rather take Dirk. Granted Dirk is just as bad of a defender, but he is a much better scorer.

Hell even give me someone like Gasol over Love, even Josh Smith. Having Love that high suggests that he is the best power-forward in the game. Which he is not.
Love improved dramatically as a defender last year. And even if you don't think so Josh Smith is a flawed player as well when you factor in his outside game.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Does everyone really think I'm being that outlandish with the Wade top 5 thing? I'm genuinely surprised I'm getting so much argument about this.
I think he definitely has a shot, when it's all said and done, to be top 5.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Who are the 5 you would put ahead of him? MJ and Kobe for sure. Probably Jerry West. Who else?
There are guys that played both the SG and SF positions. Lebron, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, George Gervin, Clyde Drexler, Pistol Pete.

MJ and Kobe are easily 1 and 2, i'd take most of those guys before i took Wade, too.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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There are guys that played both the SG and SF positions. Lebron, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, George Gervin, Clyde Drexler, Pistol Pete.

MJ and Kobe are easily 1 and 2, i'd take most of those guys before i took Wade, too.
I don't see any of those guys as SG's other than Drexler who has an argument. Gervin was a pseudo SG too but he was a career loser. Great scorer but not at Wade's level as an overall player and winner. I'm talking pure SG's and still goddamnit Pistol Pete you guys?
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Love's inability to defend makes him a top 15-20 guy. He's stuck on a roster that was incapable of scoring outside of him. I would rather take Dirk. Granted Dirk is just as bad of a defender, but he is a much better scorer.

Hell even give me someone like Gasol over Love, even Josh Smith. Having Love that high suggests that he is the best power-forward in the game. Which he is not.
He's by far the best offensive PF in the game, and his defense isn't good but he's an okayish help defender and an excellent defensive rebounder. With a lineup of Rubio/Budinger/AK-47/Love/Pekovic, it's a playoff team. And Love is an MVP candidate.

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Does everyone really think I'm being that outlandish with the Wade top 5 thing? I'm genuinely surprised I'm getting so much argument about this.
No, you aren't. Maravich being better than him is hilarious.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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The last 4 are just stupid. Iverson was an inefficient chucker, Reggie was a guy who never took his team to the next level, Ray Allen was never a guy who could be the number 1 scorer on a championship team, and Bernard King didn't do it for long enough.

And I missed Maravich which is just an unbelievably bad choice unless we're factoring in college success for some reason.
Pistol Pete was more than just a college stud: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...maravpe01.html

that was without a three point line he averaged 31 points, and he consistently shot from out there.

Iverson lead a team of an aged Dikembe Mutumbo, Theo Ratliff, Aaron McKey and Eric Snow to the NBA finals. Wade with comparable talent won 19 games.

Ray led Seattle to a Northwest Division title on a team that virtually him and Rashard Lewis, who couldn't read or tie his own shoes at that point.

Reggie was one of the most efficient scorers of all time. Not to mention, ice cold in the clutch and from the 3 point line.

King was injury prone, so I'll concede that one.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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I'd argue Lamarcus Aldridge is right there with Love as an offensive scorer, so saying he's "by far" the best in the game is a stretch. Aldridge's post game is ridiculous.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Pistol Pete was more than just a college stud: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...maravpe01.html

that was without a three point line he averaged 31 points, and he consistently shot from out there.

Iverson lead a team of an aged Dikembe Mutumbo, Theo Ratliff, Aaron McKey and Eric Snow to the NBA finals. Wade with comparable talent won 19 games.

Ray led Seattle to a Northwest Division title on a team that virtually him and Rashard Lewis, who couldn't read or tie his own shoes at that point.

Reggie was one of the most efficient scorers of all time. Not to mention, ice cold in the clutch and from the 3 point line.

King was injury prone, so I'll concede that one.
Yes, Pistol Pete took a fuckload of shots on bad teams and turned the ball over more than any player ever. AI had an elite defensive team around him, and the team around Ray wasn't bad at all. Reggie was a great pure shooter and a tough defender, but he was never an elite player.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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I'd argue Lamarcus Aldridge is right there with Love as an offensive scorer, so saying he's "by far" the best in the game is a stretch. Aldridge's post game is ridiculous.
Love is more efficient and a much better offensive rebounder. They're both good passers but bah. Both are better than Dirk right now.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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I'd argue Lamarcus Aldridge is right there with Love as an offensive scorer, so saying he's "by far" the best in the game is a stretch. Aldridge's post game is ridiculous.
I agree. Dirk is in the discussion too, obviously. Al Jefferson also has ******* great post moves....obviously not in the discussion with those 3 at all, but he's a wizard down low and people overlook him.

I do probably give it to Love though due to him beasting on the offensive glass.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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I don't see any of those guys as SG's other than Drexler who has an argument. Gervin was a pseudo SG too but he was a career loser. Great scorer but not at Wade's level as an overall player and winner. I'm talking pure SG's and still goddamnit Pistol Pete you guys?
I threw him in there to make the list a little longer.

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Jerry West
4. John Havlicek
5. Oscar Robertson
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Dirk >>>>>> PF
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Yes, Pistol Pete took a fuckload of shots on bad teams and turned the ball over more than any player ever. AI had an elite defensive team around him, and the team around Ray wasn't bad at all. Reggie was a great pure shooter and a tough defender, but he was never an elite player.
Pistol Pete changed the game, man. He gets bonus points from that.

AI's elite defensive team means that he has to carry the offense, so calling him an ineffective chucker when he had Snow, McKie, Mutumbo and Ratliff and none of those guys can score is a bad argument, because he was the most efficient of the group. He was a warrior and he carried that team.

Ray Allen's starting 5 on the 2004-2005 Northwest Division champions was:

Ridnour, Allen, Lewis, Reggie Evans, and Jerome James. He carried that team night in and night out.

Reggie is still better than Wade. More clutch, could score better and in more ways, and was a better on ball defender, where Wade is better off the ball.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Love is more efficient and a much better offensive rebounder. They're both good passers but bah. Both are better than Dirk right now.
I don't think rebounding should be considered as part of their offensive game. They're both very good passers, yes, but i'd take Aldridge's post game. I really don't care that Love can shoot the three ball, i can get that from my wings.

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I agree. Dirk is in the discussion too, obviously. Al Jefferson also has ******* great post moves....obviously not in the discussion with those 3 at all, but he's a wizard down low and people overlook him.

I do probably give it to Love though due to him beasting on the offensive glass.
Al is definitely a beast, but the problem with him is that his jumpshot isn't all there. Love has the best range on his jumpshot, but i'd argue Aldridge's is better inside the arc. Someone would have to pull up the numbers to confirm or deny that.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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I threw him in there to make the list a little longer.

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Jerry West
4. John Havlicek
5. Oscar Robertson
If we're going to view Havlicek as a SG the first 4 are perfectly fair. I always viewed him as a SF though.

Oscar was a PG though, c'mon.
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