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Old 03-29-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Simple. Melo is 10x the mismatch Harden is.

He's the better scorer, better rebounder, he can play the 4 and the 3 which is a matchup nightmare for teams to defend against, and is more clutch.

There's nothing that Harden can do that Melo can't. There's plenty that Melo can do that Harden can't.

Now quick, pull up your efficiency stats and assists per game and tell me how wrong I am. Then show me meaningless FG and 3 point %s, tell me how being 0.02% better is worth noting, and then go harf harf efficiency harf harf.
-Better Scorer
He averages a little more than a point per game more on almost 5 more shots. How that's a better scorer I'll never know

-Better rebounder
A 3/4 averages 1.5 more rebounds per game than a SG, shocker. Melo's an astonishingly bad rebounder for a PF.

-Bigger mismatch
No he isn't, there's a reason Harden has done so much with so little in Houston.

-There's nothing that Harden can do that Melo can't
Harden's a much better passer, which absolutely cancels out anything resembling whatever Melo's rebounding numbers are perceived to be.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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You agree that KD is the 2nd best player in the game and in this little piece you are saying Carmelo is a better player than KD.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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And nothing I said there is false. Melo does have a better interior game, melo can play with his back to the basket better than Durant, Melo can play the 4 more consistently than Durant, and Melo is better defensively when he puts the effort in. Durant is not a good defender anyway.

Neither are great passers. The only thing I was wrong about was efficiency.

And I'm sititng here now telling you Durant is the 2nd best player in the league.


But it's ridiculous that everyone just completely ignores Durant's flaws just bc it's Durant. How dare I point out his shortcomings!

Everything I said about Durant is true. Does that make him a bad player? Of course not.

But we ignore those flaws with him and point them out about Melo. You know why? Bc people don't like Melo but they like Durant. So let's ignore that Durant is a mediocre defender, passer, and post player. Bc he's such a great guy.


And for the record I sprinkled in a little trolling in that post. That was during peak troll days in this thread.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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And I'm still waiting to hear about these offensive players that Melo played with for the past 2 years.

Lemme guess, you forgot that they were traded before Melo got here and want to pretend you never said that now?
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
And nothing I said there is false. Melo does have a better interior game, melo can play with his back to the basket better than Durant, Melo can play the 4 more consistently than Durant, and Melo is better defensively when he puts the effort in. Durant is not a good defender anyway.

Neither are great passers. The only thing I was wrong about was efficiency.

And I'm sititng here now telling you Durant is the 2nd best player in the league.


But it's ridiculous that everyone just completely ignores Durant's flaws just bc it's Durant. How dare I point out his shortcomings!

Everything I said about Durant is true. Does that make him a bad player? Of course not.

But we ignore those flaws with him and point them out about Melo. You know why? Bc people don't like Melo but they like Durant. So let's ignore that Durant is a mediocre defender, passer, and post player. Bc he's such a great guy.


And for the record I sprinkled in a little trolling in that post. That was during peak troll days in this thread.

You're stuck in 2011 here. Durant is a perfectly fine defender at this point while Melo still rarely tries, and Durant is 4th in the league in assists among non guards. He's made himself into a very good passer.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
And nothing I said there is false. Melo does have a better interior game, melo can play with his back to the basket better than Durant, Melo can play the 4 more consistently than Durant, and Melo is better defensively when he puts the effort in. Durant is not a good defender anyway.

Neither are great passers. The only thing I was wrong about was efficiency.

And I'm sititng here now telling you Durant is the 2nd best player in the league.


But it's ridiculous that everyone just completely ignores Durant's flaws just bc it's Durant. How dare I point out his shortcomings!

Everything I said about Durant is true. Does that make him a bad player? Of course not.

But we ignore those flaws with him and point them out about Melo. You know why? Bc people don't like Melo but they like Durant. So let's ignore that Durant is a mediocre defender, passer, and post player. Bc he's such a great guy.


And for the record I sprinkled in a little trolling in that post. That was during peak troll days in this thread.
Welcome to three years ago.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Durant has as many makes at the rim per game than Melo does in almost 2 less attempts. He's also considerably better from 3-9 feet as well. You have NO basis for that argument at all, other than mythical post moves that do not exist. Do you realize that amongst guys playing at least 40 games with 20 minutes per game, Melo is 189th out of 201 players in shooting at the rim? You are seriously going to call his post game good with that in mind?
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
-Better Scorer
He averages a little more than a point per game more on almost 5 more shots. How that's a better scorer I'll never know

-Better rebounder
A 3/4 averages 1.5 more rebounds per game than a SG, shocker. Melo's an astonishingly bad rebounder for a PF.

-Bigger mismatch
No he isn't, there's a reason Harden has done so much with so little in Houston.

-There's nothing that Harden can do that Melo can't
Harden's a much better passer, which absolutely cancels out anything resembling whatever Melo's rebounding numbers are perceived to be.
How does Melo have more in NY than Harden in Houston? Both have defensive centers who block shots and rebound. Both have an inconsistent 2ndary scorer who plays on the perimeter (Lin vs JR), and both have solid but not spectacular players to round out their teams.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Durant has as many makes at the rim per game than Melo does in almost 2 less attempts. He's also considerably better from 3-9 feet as well. You have NO basis for that argument at all, other than mythical post moves that do not exist. Do you realize that amongst guys playing at least 40 games with 20 minutes per game, Melo is 189th out of 201 players in shooting at the rim? You are seriously going to call his post game good with that in mind?
We've discussed this ad nauseum before. Finishing at the rim and having a post game are not the same thing.

A post game is playing with your back to the basket. Finishing at the rim means exactly what it says. Not the same thing.

Durant finishes at the rim with high efficiency bc of his length and ability to drive. But that is NOT a post game. And I really don't want to get into that again after seeing how comical the last debate about this turned out to be.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Simple. Melo is 10x the mismatch Harden is.

He's the better scorer, better rebounder, he can play the 4 and the 3 which is a matchup nightmare for teams to defend against, and is more clutch.

There's nothing that Harden can do that Melo can't. There's plenty that Melo can do that Harden can't.

Now quick, pull up your efficiency stats and assists per game and tell me how wrong I am. Then show me meaningless FG and 3 point %s, tell me how being 0.02% better is worth noting, and then go harf harf efficiency harf harf.
I will happily pull up stats that prove Harden is a more efficient scorer, but you really don't need to look much further than free throws. Harden is one of, if not the best player(s) in the league at getting to the line - where he hits at 86%. he scores a very similar number of ppg on a lower usage rate. and other harf harf efficiency harf

anyway, I do agree that Carmelo is more of a mismatch because he can effectively play the 3 and the 4 and is a nightmare to guard. comparing the two on the basis of what they can and can't do is not the right way to do this, though. Harden is a guard and Carmelo is a forward.

as for the clutch thing, I'd take Harden personally because I want a guy who can penetrate and get an easy layup or get fouled. not a guy who can hit a jumper to bail me out. here are some clutch statistics for both guys

Harden
Anthony
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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You're stuck in 2011 here. Durant is a perfectly fine defender at this point while Melo still rarely tries, and Durant is 4th in the league in assists among non guards. He's made himself into a very good passer.
If I'm guilty of being stuck in 2011, so are a lot of people here. Bc a lot of the stereotypes of Melo are from his past, vs how he's been playing this year. Melo has been a complete stud this year.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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I will happily pull up stats that prove Harden is a more efficient scorer, but you really don't need to look much further than free throws. Harden is one of, if not the best player(s) in the league at getting to the line - where he hits at 86%. he scores a very similar number of ppg on a lower usage rate. and other harf harf efficiency harf

anyway, I do agree that Carmelo is more of a mismatch because he can effectively play the 3 and the 4 and is a nightmare to guard. comparing the two on the basis of what they can and can't do is not the right way to do this, though. Harden is a guard and Carmelo is a forward.

as for the clutch thing, I'd take Harden personally because I want a guy who can penetrate and get an easy layup or get fouled. not a guy who can hit a jumper to bail me out. here are some clutch statistics for both guys

Harden
Anthony
To be clear, I don't think Harden is a bad player at all. But if I'm building my team from scratch, I rather start with Melo as a building block vs Harden. It's that simple to me.

And that's bc of him being a bigger mismatch. Melo can drive to the basket fine btw.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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To be clear, I don't think Harden is a bad player at all. But if I'm building my team from scratch, I rather start with Melo as a building block vs Harden. It's that simple to me.

And that's bc of him being a bigger mismatch. Melo can drive to the basket fine btw.
I don't deny that Melo can drive - he just doesn't do it nearly as well as Harden. few players do
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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are you guys finally happy?

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Old 03-29-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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really curious to see what dre can do an offense with an offseason of training and not being significantly limited in minutes
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Yall just jelly that Melo's gunna get a ring this year.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Missed out on all of this, but Zach Lowe already wrote a pretty extensive article on how guys like Melo lose efficiency due to their team structure WITHOUT hurting the team. The efficiency geeks should really go take a looksie.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:48 PM    (permalink
WMD
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Andre Drummond is BACK and looking as good as ever so far. <3

And just scored out of the post
And just stole a pass and took it all the way to the hoop

:)
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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"Danny Ainge needs to shut the f--- up and manage his own team. He was the biggest whiner going when he was playing and I know that because I coached against him." - Pat Riley on Ainge criticizing LeBron.

Riley is the man.

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Old 03-29-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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He's just mad that other people aside from us notice how the Heat are a bunch of cry babies.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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Riley is never mad. Just speaking the truth...
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Ainge being a cry baby 30 years ago doesn't change anything about Lebron and Wade acting like little girls today.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Wade - I'll give you. Dude whines a lot but he also turned this whole organization around post Zo-Hardaway days so Miami fans will never dog him.

Lebron on the other hand? Yes he complained just recently but for the most part he doesn't make excuses for anything. Especially since he has been a member of the Heat.
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