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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
Yes 623421 100.00%
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
iowatreat54
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Guys, guys...you're getting off topic.

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Old 05-17-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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No. His ppg have fluctuated according to his development and his injuries. His offensive rebounding has remained pretty much exactly the same, so those points are coming from somewhere other than just the putbacks you claimed.
Last two seasons were his first instance of injury. One of which he still averaged 20ppg so that doesn't take away from his average.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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He is the best in the league. But no, he isn't as good as four of the top 20 best players in the history of the NBA. Why that's even an argument is beyond me.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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He has averaged 20ppg 4 times. 3 of which was barely over 20ppg.

Is he Okafor bad on offense? Hell no.

I wouldn't say he is above average either though or even "solid".


And No Iowatreat - NO MORE BUTLER
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Lol he isn't above average in comparison to what? He's very much above average when compared to his peers. Why are we comparing him to the best players in the history of the game?
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Guys.

SACRAMENTO Kings!
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
I mentioned offensive boards in one post. I don't keep talking about it. You do.

That is the point of this whole convo is comparing his offensive game to the other greats. He is not a good offensive player, and I've told you why I thought he wasn't a good player. Scroll up. I've watched him god knows how many times and he has not improved to the point on offense where he should be if he wants to be considered great. And YES, he has said he wants to be the best CENTER in the NBA. Hence, his whole feud with Shaq.

You still haven't said why he isn't a bad offensive player. He averaged 18ppg, that doesn't make him a "good" offensive center either automatically.
So I'm going to ask one more time and then be done with this, because iowatreat is right and in the grand scheme of all things Jimmy Butler this is unimportant.

Can you tell me why he's among the league leaders for scoring average among centers year after year? Because we've been telling you the entire time that other centers have similar offensive rebounding numbers but don't score as much. You've said repeatedly that Dwight scores more because he rebounds a lot. Why are these other good rebounding centers not scoring as much as him?
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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He is the best in the league. But no, he isn't as good as four of the top 20 best players in the history of the NBA. Why that's even an argument is beyond me.
When we started talking about this, it started on me saying I don't understand how he has not progressed to a better level on offense when he worked with Ewing for over 5 years in Orlando.

Then you said you don't believe it is that simple for big guys to learn finesse on offense, and I said I believe it is able to be achieved and it begins with footwork.

That is what the argument began on and not me comparing his game to the great NBA centers. Point being, he wants to be the best, he better get a hell of a lot better on offense if he wants to be compared to those guys in the end. He is not a "good" offensive player.

You want to say he is better than the rest or "solid" then fine, but don't tell me is good on the offensive side of the court. either.


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Old 05-17-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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You brought in the whole "he wants to be the best ever" completely out of left field. Neither me or yo had commented on that at all. That was never part of the discussion until you decided to mention it.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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You know who DID score a **** ton because of his rebounding prowess?

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Old 05-17-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Guys.

SACRAMENTO Kings!
**** YEAH!!!!
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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You brought in the whole "he wants to be the best ever" completely out of left field. Neither me or yo had commented on that at all. That was never part of the discussion until you decided to mention it.

Changing the argument is a great way to convince yourself that you've had a point all along.

And yes, Moses was a monster.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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You brought in the whole "he wants to be the best ever" completely out of left field. Neither me or yo had commented on that at all. That was never part of the discussion until you decided to mention it.
I'm still saying he isn't a good offensive center and your only response was he averaged 20ppg. Which he is doesn't.

You guys also used the "greats" to your advantage by saying he doesn't need to be as good as them which is fine.

And Yo - I'm still saying he isn't a good offensive player. And in all your posts you still haven't told me why he isn't bad. So sometimes avoiding the point and bringing up something I said "ONE TIME" is a good way of getting out of the argument as well isn't it?

20ppg when his career average is 18ppg. That was a solid point and so was the injury fact even though he just became injured the last two seasons. One of which he average 20ppg so he didn't hurt that 18ppg average did it?

He isn't good offensively.

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Old 05-17-2013, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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7 offensive rebounds PER GAME, for an entire season. Moses did that twice as a Rocket. Just stupid how good he was on the glass when he was in his prime.

Plus, dudes name was Moses.

14th best player in NBA history!
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Saying I haven't given you reasons over and over again will probably eventually make it true. Or something.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Saying I haven't given you reasons over and over again will probably eventually make it true. Or something.
Nice response and avoiding the question again. Amirite?

Or did Skip Bayless on ESPN teach you that.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Nice response and avoiding the question again. Amirite?

Or did Skip Bayless on ESPN teach you that.
Ok one last chance, if you want to actually address the question I asked you feel free, if not then whatever.

Quote:
Can you tell me why he's among the league leaders for scoring average among centers year after year? Because we've been telling you the entire time that other centers have similar offensive rebounding numbers but don't score as much. You've said repeatedly that Dwight scores more because he rebounds a lot. Why are these other good rebounding centers not scoring as much as him?
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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I just think BallerT is changing the definition of all of these words.

"bad" now means "not greatest ever".
"good" is now "elite".
"best" now means "not good".
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Guys, guys...you're getting off topic.

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Old 05-17-2013, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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How many good offensive centers are there in the league period? How many times have we brought up in this thread that there are no great centers in the league anymore?

We probably do it once every 4-5 days, similar to the sub conversation in the Random thread.

Yes he is the leading scorer in the NBA among the current centers, but what the hell does that have to do with his offensive game period? There are no good centers left in the NBA. We are all praying Hibbert eventually becomes a beast like he was in game 4 vs. the Knicks.

Dwight does not have a good offensive game. He can't score with his back to the basket. He can't shoot 5-10 foot jumpers consistently, and his hook shoot doesn't go in the basket 2 times in a row.

Good for him that he is the highest scoring center in the league over guys like Bogut, Emeka, Hibbert, Lopez.

That doesn't make his game on offense good

A Career average of 18ppg and scoring barely over 20ppg 3 of the 4 seasons he did it just doesn't make him a good offensive center.


Edit: And lastly, I can't compare him to the greats because that makes him look ****** and not part of the argument, but you can compare his numbers with the ****** centers of this league now because it makes him look better offensively or just not a "bad" offensive center.

Iman > Butler
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Since Dwight is the subject and I'm horrendously bored, I'll throw in that I have Dwight as a top 50 player of all time right now (#48), even though I'm torn on even wanting him on the Rockets next year. Orlando-Dwight was a monster. From age 21-26 he was the best defender in basketball while averaging 20 pts and 14 rebs on 60% shooting. Also a top 5 PER and Win Shares guy every year.

Shame that hes, well, him. Ugh.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:50 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
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It depends on what centers you placed behind him comahan.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:51 PM    (permalink
comahan
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comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.comahan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Uhhhh

Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Admiral, Walton, Mikan, Ewing, Reed, Cowens, Gilmore, and McAdoo.

Though, I could see myself putting him over Gilmore and McAdoo, or maybe even Cowens depending on the day.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
He has averaged 20ppg 4 times. 3 of which was barely over 20ppg.

Is he Okafor bad on offense? Hell no.

I wouldn't say he is above average either though or even "solid".


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Old 05-17-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Bastard.

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