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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Carmelo Anthony is a better and more productive player than Kevin Durant.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Since Dwight is the subject and I'm horrendously bored, I'll throw in that I have Dwight as a top 50 player of all time right now (#48), even though I'm torn on even wanting him on the Rockets next year. Orlando-Dwight was a monster. From age 21-26 he was the best defender in basketball while averaging 20 pts and 14 rebs on 60% shooting. Also a top 5 PER and Win Shares guy every year.

Shame that hes, well, him. Ugh.
Let's see the whole list.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Carmelo Anthony is a better and more productive player than Kevin Durant.
In an alternate universe, perhaps.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Iman > Butler
You have some funny jokes, I'll give you that Baller.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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You have some funny jokes, I'll give you that Baller.
Both are players that each fan base loves. They are in similar positions in the fact that both can be a core piece of championship contenders and both play their asses off on defense.

Oh and Chris is always watching.....

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Old 05-17-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Both are players that each fanbase loves. They are in similar positions in the fact that both can be a core piece of championship contenders.
*non-homer moment*

No, you're right. It will be interesting to see how Iman comes back from his injury, and to see if Jimmy can take the next step next season. With Rose back, it should help Jimmy's offensive game immensely. I think we see him assume a similar role to Deng from the last couple years.

I didn't watch a lot of Shumpert last year, but I know he's going to be a really good defender. However, I feel like Jimmy has a better ability to play both SGs and SFs very tough, whereas I don't think Shump can body-up against bigger players. I could be wrong and just haven't watched enough of him, though.

*homerism back on*



EDIT: And I'll give Shump this much, he has probably the best hair in the league. I'm pretty jealous of that.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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In an alternate universe, perhaps.
In the universe where he's playing another playoff game and Durant isn't.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Butler>Shump.

But Shumpert shooting 40% from 3 this year was unexpected and is a good sign for him. The rest of his offensive game needs to catch up though.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Butler is better bc his offensive game is lightyears ahead of Shumpert right now.

I think Shump is a better defender, but only slightly. If Shump can develop his offense he can be special. Shump's problem is he's not confident in his game right now, and he doesn't demand the ball. When you're playing with Melo and JR you need to demand the ball if you want your touches.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Let's see the whole list.
50 Tracy McGrady, SG
49 Clyde Drexler, SG
48 Dwight Howard, C
47 Jason Kidd, PG
46 Gary Payton, PG
45 Dolph Schayes, PF
44 Artis Gilmore, C
43 Dominique Wilkins, SF
42 Elvin Hayes, PF
41 Kevin Durant, SF
40 Isiah Thomas, PG
39 Walt Frazier, PG
38 Dave Cowens, C
37 Willis Reed, C
36 Bill Walton, C
35 Kevin McHale, PF
34 Steve Nash, PG
33 Patrick Ewing, C
32 George Gervin, SG
31 Chris Paul, PG
30 George Mikan, C
29 Rick Barry, SF
28 Dennis Rodman, PF
27 Bob Cousy, PG
26 Scottie Pippen, SF
25 John Stockton, PG
24 John Havlicek, SF
23 Dwyane Wade, SG
22 Dirk Nowitzki, PF
21 Elgin Baylor, SF
20 Charles Barkley, PF
19 Bob Pettit, PF
18 Kevin Garnett, PF
17 Julius Erving, SF
16 Karl Malone, PF
15 David Robinson, C
14 Moses Malone, C
13 Jerry West, SG
12 Kobe Bryant, SG
11 Hakeem Olajuwon, C
10 Oscar Robertson, PG
09 Tim Duncan, PF
08 Larry Bird, SF
07 Shaquille O'Neal, C
06 LeBron James, SF
05 Bill Russell, C
04 Magic Johnson, PG
03 Wilt Chamberlain, C
02 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, C
01 Michael Jordan, SG

Walton would be top 20, no doubt, if he had a few more healthy seasons under his belt. When he was right, he was Tim Duncan, but a better passer, and maybe even a better defender. Same for T-Mac really. If we just judge his prime years, hes better than Clyde, but Clyde had so many more good seasons. So hard to rate.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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I like Timmy in the top 10, but I'm not sure I could put him over Hakeem.

And I'm guessing this would be Kobe's response to being outside Top 10.

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Old 05-17-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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I prefer Jimmy Butler as well. Looks like a younger Tony Allen.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Kobe >>>>>> Oscar.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Rating Hakeem was hard for me since I'm such a huge homer for the guy. Maybe I tried so hard not to overrate him that I underrated him, I dont know.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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50 Tracy McGrady, SG
49 Clyde Drexler, SG
48 Dwight Howard, C
47 Jason Kidd, PG
46 Gary Payton, PG
45 Dolph Schayes, PF
44 Artis Gilmore, C
43 Dominique Wilkins, SF
42 Elvin Hayes, PF
41 Kevin Durant, SF
40 Isiah Thomas, PG
39 Walt Frazier, PG
38 Dave Cowens, C
37 Willis Reed, C
36 Bill Walton, C
35 Kevin McHale, PF
34 Steve Nash, PG
33 Patrick Ewing, C
32 George Gervin, SG
31 Chris Paul, PG
30 George Mikan, C
29 Rick Barry, SF
28 Dennis Rodman, PF
27 Bob Cousy, PG
26 Scottie Pippen, SF
25 John Stockton, PG
24 John Havlicek, SF
23 Dwyane Wade, SG
22 Dirk Nowitzki, PF
21 Elgin Baylor, SF
20 Charles Barkley, PF
19 Bob Pettit, PF
18 Kevin Garnett, PF
17 Julius Erving, SF
16 Karl Malone, PF
15 David Robinson, C
14 Moses Malone, C
13 Jerry West, SG
12 Kobe Bryant, SG
11 Hakeem Olajuwon, C
10 Oscar Robertson, PG
09 Tim Duncan, PF
08 Larry Bird, SF
07 Shaquille O'Neal, C
06 LeBron James, SF
05 Bill Russell, C
04 Magic Johnson, PG
03 Wilt Chamberlain, C
02 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, C
01 Michael Jordan, SG

Walton would be top 20, no doubt, if he had a few more healthy seasons under his belt. When he was right, he was Tim Duncan, but a better passer, and maybe even a better defender. Same for T-Mac really. If we just judge his prime years, hes better than Clyde, but Clyde had so many more good seasons. So hard to rate.
Interesting. Not a whole lot of complaints tbh. Maybe Hakeem a bit higher (you're a Houston fan, c'mon). I would put him over Oscar just because the pace of play in his day did a lot to inflate his numbers. I like KG and Barkley both over Malone personally but we've already had that discussion in here.

I think both Durant and Paul end up higher eventually but having them where they are makes sense at the moment.

Kobe at #12 looks weird at first glance but it's tough to put him in front of the other guys except maybe Oscar.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure I could look Kobe in the eye and tell him he is not top 10.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Dream Shake 4 lyfe.

I do think Hakeem tends to get underrated in general. There's just a bunch of Cs that you can group together after the top 3 or so and can be placed in a number of different orders.

Also, love the Pippen rating. Was my favorite Bull growing up and such a good player, just got his panties in a bunch when one play wasn't called for him and has (maybe had?) no idea what to do with money.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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In the universe where he's playing another playoff game and Durant isn't.
Uhhh, that's a terrible reason considering we have a much better team right now than what Durant had. Plus he's going up against a MUCH better team.

Talk to me when Melo averages over 50% shooting once in his career. There's literally nothing Melo can do better than Durant.

Scoring = Durant
Rebounding = Durant
Passing = Durant
Defense = Durant (probably not as good as a post/on-ball defender but Melo isn't stellar either. Plus Durant is a much better shot blocker and generates steals at a higher rate)

Durant is a better shooter. Better from three. Better from the free throw line. Better at getting to the free throw line. Etc. etc.

Oh, and Durant has also actually made it to the finals...unlike Melo.

So stop being such a troll.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Goddamnit Forenci.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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DWade > Pippen

Come here you!

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Old 05-17-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Looking at that list once again makes me so bummed King blew out his knee right as he was settling into being the NBA's scoring champion and a simply unstoppable 3.

As for Buckets v Shump, I can't argue that Buckets is more refined offensively and he is a little bigger, but Shump has the handles to do so much more than he's shown, especially if his 3 ball remains a weapon.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, seriously Forenci. That wasn't even a good attempt at a troll.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Not only is Wade not even outright a better player than Pippen, he can't even play 2nd fiddle better than Pippen.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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Not only is Wade not even outright a better player than Pippen, he can't even play 2nd fiddle better than Pippen.
Maybe the 2nd fiddle needs some work, but he did win a championship as Batman. Pippen couldn't even get to the Finals as batman.

Come at me bro.
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"I wasn't going to lose to Miami, no matter what," Freeman said. "It means a lot to go out there and beat them. Every time I get a chance, I want to destroy them."
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