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Old 06-04-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
That 34 win season from the Lakers...totally MVP-esque. And LeBron deserved it more in 05-06 Nash or Kobe.
06 Kobe.

35ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 45/35/85 splits, 28 PER, 48 wins (7th seed) and got to the second round of the playoffs with:

Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Devean George, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, Slava Medvadenko and Sasha Vujacic.

Kobe should have gotten that MVP, and you can also make the case for Lebron. Nash winning it was a joke.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Allen Iverson is the GOAT.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Oh no oh no oh no oh no...
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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My two cents. I've put in a ton of thought into this, and for me, Lebron will never achieve the level of respect that Jordan has and it comes down to the decision. I have said for years, I believe Lebron to be the most talented player the league has ever seen. Skill, physical talent, and competitiveness are all of the same class of Jordan's. But by going out and getting two of the top 15 players in the league to join up with him, I think he can never be regarded as the best of all time. He didn't go to beat the best, he went to play with the best. Jordan had Pippen, but he was drafted. Rodman was brought in, but Jordan threatened him, not really welcomed him. Lebron went out and recruited two superstars to go and play with him. All the while holding the NBA hostage.

In the end, his legacy, which this is ultimately about, caused him to get his first ring, but also ended his chance in my opinion, to be in the consideration for the greatest ever.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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06 Kobe.

35ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 45/35/85 splits, 28 PER, 48 wins (7th seed) and got to the second round of the playoffs with:

Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Devean George, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, Slava Medvadenko and Sasha Vujacic.

Kobe should have gotten that MVP, and you can also make the case for Lebron. Nash winning it was a joke.
Meh, it was a fine choice. Rose winning is still far worse.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Both Lebron and Kobe had PER's of 28, Lebron had 1.35 ppshot while Kobe did 1.3

Negligible difference, especially when you consider that dogshit team Kobe had in the West. Comparing him to Iverson is the stupidest thing in the world especially when you consider that Kobe was first year all defense in 06.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bearsfan123 View Post
My two cents. I've put in a ton of thought into this, and for me, Lebron will never achieve the level of respect that Jordan has and it comes down to the decision. I have said for years, I believe Lebron to be the most talented player the league has ever seen. Skill, physical talent, and competitiveness are all of the same class of Jordan's. But by going out and getting two of the top 15 players in the league to join up with him, I think he can never be regarded as the best of all time. He didn't go to beat the best, he went to play with the best. Jordan had Pippen, but he was drafted. Rodman was brought in, but Jordan threatened him, not really welcomed him. Lebron went out and recruited two superstars to go and play with him. All the while holding the NBA hostage.

In the end, his legacy, which this is ultimately about, caused him to get his first ring, but also ended his chance in my opinion, to be in the consideration for the greatest ever.
Why does signing to play with someone else give you more of a competitive advantage than having players drafted to play with you? Literally no one has ever given a legitimate reason for this.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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My two cents. I've put in a ton of thought into this, and for me, Lebron will never achieve the level of respect that Jordan has and it comes down to the decision. I have said for years, I believe Lebron to be the most talented player the league has ever seen. Skill, physical talent, and competitiveness are all of the same class of Jordan's. But by going out and getting two of the top 15 players in the league to join up with him, I think he can never be regarded as the best of all time. He didn't go to beat the best, he went to play with the best. Jordan had Pippen, but he was drafted. Rodman was brought in, but Jordan threatened him, not really welcomed him. Lebron went out and recruited two superstars to go and play with him. All the while holding the NBA hostage.

In the end, his legacy, which this is ultimately about, caused him to get his first ring, but also ended his chance in my opinion, to be in the consideration for the greatest ever.
This also doesn't matter when discussing who the best basketball player of all time is.

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Meh, it was a fine choice. Rose winning is still far worse.
I think I agree with this. I do really think Kobe deserved that Nash year and I detest Kobe.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Why does signing to play with someone else give you more of a competitive advantage than having players drafted to play with you? Literally no one has ever given a legitimate reason for this.
It's because there is none.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Both Lebron and Kobe had PER's of 28, Lebron had 1.35 ppshot while Kobe did 1.3

Negligible difference, especially when you consider that dogshit team Kobe had in the West. Comparing him to Iverson is the stupidest thing in the world especially when you consider that Kobe was first year all defense in 06.
Kobe's defense has been incredibly overrated for so goddamn long that you can't count that.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Kobe's all defenses don't count, but he was incredible that year. That team was frighteningly bad without him.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Kobe's defense has been incredibly overrated for so goddamn long that you can't count that.
Discrediting his defense when he was in the prime of his career because of what's happened at 33 and 34 is the laziest argument i've ever seen from you.

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Kobe's all defenses don't count, but he was incredible that year. That team was frighteningly bad without him.
And you too.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Discrediting his defense when he was in the prime of his career because of what's happened at 33 and 34 is the laziest argument i've ever seen from you.
He has never been an elite defender, he's been overrated his entire career defensively.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Discrediting his defense when he was in the prime of his career because of what's happened at 33 and 34 is the laziest argument i've ever seen from you.



And you too.
No way he deserved 1st team all D that year or any yr.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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I thought i heard an echo.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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It's because there is none.
It's always defended with something like he doesn't have "it", or some other invisible factor that conveniently doesn't need to be backed up by actual reasoning or facts.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Kobe can play defense. I don't think you can question that. That being said, elite defender? probably not.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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LeBron has never had a big man as good as Horace Grant, who averaged 14/10/3 with over a block and a steal on good efficiency and limited turnovers in 91-92. Even Bosh isn't that good, despite what people seem to think.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Kobe can play defense. I don't think you can question that. That being said, elite defender? probably not.
Oh, no question. He was a very good defender in his prime and could kick it up to elite levels when it mattered.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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You're asking for facts to rationalize something that is based purely on subjective opinion. Am i the only one that sees the obvious paradox here? People will either agree on that or they won't, there isn't anything that makes you any more right than they are.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Monroe > Cousins
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
Oh, no question. He was a very good defender in his prime and could kick it up to elite levels when it mattered.
He kicked it up to elite only when it was the 4th quarter and he would tell Phil he was going to guard the other teams best scorer. Of course, that was always mic'd up lol.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:04 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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He kicked it up to elite only when it was the 4th quarter and he would tell Phil he was going to guard the other teams best scorer. Of course, that was always mic'd up lol.
That's everyone in the NBA, ever. Guys rarely ratchet up the defense for a full game, unless it's an obvious must win.

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Monroe > Cousins
At being a vag maybe.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:05 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
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BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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That's everyone in the NBA, ever.
Ehhhhhhhh......
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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But Bieber!!!

DG, Yoda and Baller, I fully expect you to turn in your fan cards immediately. Or turn in your man card.
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