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Old 06-24-2013, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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fixed that for you.
Spoiled Boston sports fan... Typical.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Doc is probably a top three coach in the league..
Right behind SPO and Pop.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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The C's are hosed without Jordan as far as being able to re-form the team and start building around a new core.
TL;DR: I'd rather have another run with Pierce & KG than a bunch of second round draft picks any day of the week.
Jordan is far from a make or break piece in a rebuild. He's still young so he can improve, but at the moment he has some serious holes in his game and would be vastly overpaid at $13mm/yr due to his trade kicker. I wouldn't hate acquiring him, but he comes with some negatives.

I get the sentimental aspect of wanting to keep KG/PP, but letting Doc go clearly shows that we we are going into a rebuild. Might as well get some assets while we can.

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Doc is probably a top three coach in the league..
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Doc is a significant upgrade from Del Negro.
This. Doc is a great coach. It's a good deal for both sides. The Clips go from one of the worst coaches in the league to one of the best. The Celtics get a 1st and save $21mm going into a rebuild.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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But what difference does a coach actually make?
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to not **** up when you've got KG, Paul Pierce, Rondo, and Ray Allen.

The only aspirations Boston had in 2007 were for Greg Oden. If they wouldn't have got screwed over by the Lottery, Doc Rivers would've been fired by 09.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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But what difference does a coach actually make?
Welp, everyone constantly complains about coaching so I'd say a decent amount.

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Originally Posted by WMD View Post
It's hard to not **** up when you've got KG, Paul Pierce, Rondo, and Ray Allen.

The only aspirations Boston had in 2007 were for Greg Oden. If they wouldn't have got screwed over by the Lottery, Doc Rivers would've been fired by 09.
Ooo, ooo, I love the what if game!
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to not **** up when you've got KG, Paul Pierce, Rondo, and Ray Allen.

The only aspirations Boston had in 2007 were for Greg Oden. If they wouldn't have got screwed over by the Lottery, Doc Rivers would've been fired by 09.
After the draft Ainge said he would have gone with Durant if he got the top pick.

Durant/Pierce/Rondo/Al Jefferson isn't half bad.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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But what difference does a coach actually make?
Would the Nugs have beaten the Warriors without George Karl?
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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But what difference does a coach actually make?
prime example would probably be 2012-2013 Bulls.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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But what difference does a coach actually make?
Pretty big difference IMO.

Well at least we know they make a bigger difference than baseball managers.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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prime example would probably be 2012-2013 Bulls.
They were still a good team, and Thibs ran Rose/Deng/Noah into the ground.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Spoiled Boston sports fan... Typical.
I just remember Rivers before KG and Thibodeau. Not even talking about the year before KG (though Doc was definitely pretty awful that year too), and even after with how he played Scal and Baby while guys like Powe and Bill Walker sat.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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I just remember Rivers before KG and Thibodeau. Not even talking about the year before KG (though Doc was definitely pretty awful that year too), and even after with how he played Scal and Baby while guys like Powe and Bill Walker sat.
I'm sorry, but did you just use sitting Bill Walker as an example of a coach being bad at his job?
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, but did you just use sitting Bill Walker as an example of a coach being bad at his job?
Exactly what my response was going to be. Gotta be pretty delusional to think the next coach will be as good as Doc.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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The greatest coach evar in the NBA just played a big part in his team losing the NBA Championship, so it's hard to gauge just how "good" good coaches are. I think having a coach that won't **** up is more important than having a coach that will be some elite strategic mind.

Pop just made me lose all faith in coaches. He wasn't supposed to do that. He was supposed to be the one guy that wouldn't blink on the biggest stage. Ugh.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, but did you just use sitting Bill Walker as an example of a coach being bad at his job?
An example odd his refusal to deal with young players on aLarry Brown level of stubbornness. I'm on my phone and don't have the will to slog through the entirety of Doc Rivers's awfulness.

I admit, without context, the Bill Walker mention looks like a terrible point.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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as a future state championship winning basketball coach, the lack of importance held in coaches makes me wince in pain
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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But what difference does a coach actually make?
Who was the last bad coach to win a title?
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Who was the last bad coach to win a title?
Doc Rivers, if nepg is to be believed.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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He is not to be.

Going back to '95 there isn't anyone close to bad (I know nothing about how Tomjanovich was as a coach.)
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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He is not to be.

Going back to '95 there isn't anyone close to bad (I know nothing about how Tomjanovich was as a coach.)
To be fair, the fact that they won titles might have a lot to do with how they're viewed as coaches.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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That's a fair point but that's still almost 20 years, possibly more.

I think we generally overstate small mishaps and mistake solid/good coaches as bad because certain decisions don't work. A lot of the things that Pop did in game 6 were things he has done throughout his career, they just happened to not work this time. Giving stars rest at the beginning of the 4th quarter is nothing new. Letting Ginobili play through mistakes is nothing new. He's had bad games before but because Pop let him play through them he ended up making big plays down the stretch. It didn't work this time and I would have sat him eventually but hey, Popovich is smarter than me or anyone that is questioning him and he's proven that for over a decade now.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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It's one thing to let your guy fight through mistakes during the regular season, or when he has shown that he can consistently perform at a high level. Like you mentioned, Ginobili was bad ALL season, and he was awful for the whole series. The way the Spurs collapsed while Pop just sat there watching them, is absolutely unforgivable. They had a championship slip through their hands.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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I guess you missed game 5?
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151 View Post
I guess you missed game 5?
Watched every minute of the series. Second half of game 5 is why i said "consistently". And Leonard came out and admitted after game 4 that they were completely caught off guard and unprepared for what the Heat did lineup-wise. Not necessarily a gold star for Pop, either.
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